Is a name-brand college worth extra debt?

<p>The name doesn’t matter, the school does. I had a full-ride for 'Bama, and I’m paying 6000, plus work study and a little loan for Northwestern. Why? Because I love Northwestern. Because I want to be near Chicago, I want Big 10 sports, I want great academics, etc. If people choose a school just because of the name, no, it’s not worth it. If they pick it because they love it, then yes, it is worth it.</p>

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<p>I have been to both. Went to a state flagship for undergrad, and one of the HYPSMs for grad school. </p>

<p>I felt there was no difference in education quality. And since I was with the honors group for undergrad, most of whom went to an Ivy/MIT/Stanford for grad school, there was no difference in the capability of my peer group between undergrad and grad school.</p>

<p>However, there was one notable difference. Some employers restrict their recruiting to the top schools, and so employment prospects were much better at the name-brand grad school.</p>

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<p>If the “I” in “U of I” stands for Illinois-Urbana Champaign, I think it has more than a regional reputation. Among other things, the Internet browser was created there.</p>

<p>Well, I didn’t know that and I have lived in or adjacent to Illinois for the past 30 years. :)</p>

<p>I honestly don’t think people pay much attention to colleges outside of their home regions unless they are Harvard or a sports powerhouse. And even then, the knowledge they have is generally pretty limited.</p>

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I expect this will differ depending on which schools you are comparing and your degree/industry field. In high school, I was a half-time student at SUNYA. I took a few upperclassmen courses there, as well as several underclassmen courses. After graduating HS, I went to Stanford. </p>

<p>Nearly every aspect of my experience at Stanford was far superior – the teaching and how genuinely interested the school/professors/students are, the students and interesting people I met and know today, the resources, the opportunities both on campus and in surrounding areas, the scheduling, the interesting things going on at campus, being exposed to so many diverse ideas and people, etc. There was no comparison in capabilities of peer group, although I did not take honors courses (I don’t recall any being available). If I had the choice of no tuition for SUNYA vs full tuition without aid at Stanford, I’d pick Stanford in a heartbeat.</p>

<p>I’ve also taken a few classes at UCSD. I had a very different experience there. I found the classes were taught at a much more challenging level, with much stronger capabilities of my peer group. The few classes I did take were taught well (although they had a notable local focus in topics covered, related to Qualcomm influence). And full time students I’ve known at UCSD mentioned good opportunities after graduating.</p>

<p>I hate to be like everyone else… but it depends. I believe that top-tier education will pay off in dividends (as long as you make what is best of it.)</p>

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<p>It’s the same guidelines for physicians…the last place you were at matters the most on your CV.</p>

<p>So generally…fellowship>residency>med school>>undergrad.</p>

<p>^^^
That’s what I’ve been thinking.</p>

<p>Data10,</p>

<p>New York is unusual in that it doesn’t have a state flagship. So there is no natural place for the best in-state students to congregate if they were not looking at private schools. </p>

<p>I would be interested to know how different you think UCSD and Stanford were. My state flagship roughly on par with UCSD. The reason my peer group felt the same between undergrad and grad was because my honor group was created from the roughly 60 people who received the school’s highest academic scholarship. We took all our core courses together.</p>

<p>I’ve been to both. Ivy for undergrad, then 15 years later, junior college and directional state university night school for random classes I needed for a professional designation. </p>

<p>The best teachers I had at DSU were on par with the best teachers I had at Ivy. The worst teachers I had at Ivy were no better than the worst teachers I had at DSU. The Ivy had a higher percentage of best teachers, maybe, but you have a small sample size either way. My Ivy transcript has two solid Bs that would have been DSU Cs or Ds, had I had a similar pattern of attendance / level of understanding in a DSU class. But most of my DSU classmates who got As and Bs wouldn’t have been able to handle the reading / writing / synthesis requirements of Ivy, where “read 300-400 pages for the class 2 days from now” wasn’t unusual.</p>

<p>A smart kid can get a good education pretty much anywhere; the academic part of college is much more “you get out what you put in” than high school is.</p>

<p>That said, the 18yo that I was did a lot better socially at Ivy than I would have at DSU, or even State Flagship. So I’d encourage my fish-out-of-water kid to go to a school that was a better apparent fit for her, even if it meant student loans and a high EFC (which would not mean debt for us), over a free ride at a school that wasn’t a good fit. Fit doesn’t mean name brand, though; given the choice between two schools with an equally good apparent fit, I’d encourage her to take price over brand any day.</p>

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It sounds like the honors group were among the best students at a top school. That’s not a representative experience. I’ve also taken classes at University of Wyoming, which is the Wyoming flagship, and had a similar experience to SUNYA. I didn’t take enough classes at UCSD to make a detailed comparison to Stanford. The few classes I did take were similar in size, style, and difficulty to Stanford (I was taking grad classes without haven taken any of the prerequisites, which may have made it appear artificially challenging). As I mentioned earlier the material had more of a local focus with Qualcomm tech, which fits with Qualcomm hiring more engineers from UCSD than any other school. The similar class size may not have been representative, as when comparing Stanford to UC schools one of the most common differences students mention is class size.</p>

<p>I can see how different students would have preferred and fit better in any one of the 4 schools I mentioned. However, of the 6 schools I have attended, Stanford was definitely the best fit for me. I also believe it had the most employment opportunities for my field.</p>

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It’s only worth it if produces a better outcome for you. If the outcome is the same, then the less expensive option is the way to go.</p>

<p>I think it helps in the short run, but in the long run it amounts to how hard you work</p>

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<p>You are naive to think that the harder you work, the further you go. Of course, you are “collegebound” so that’s something you’ll begin to realize in the next 5 years.</p>

<p>There are systems that certain people always have a constant edge against other people regardless of how much harder those other people work.</p>

<p>For example, I work as a software engineer at a defense contractor. I also serve as a executive officer for a light infantry company in the Guard. I am a contractor but in the end I’m also an end client. There are many co-workers that work “harder” than me but they haven’t been selected for the duties and responsibilities that will develop your career faster than others. Why? Because members of service have an edge in this industry (“I am one of ‘them’”). In fact, the system is designed so that as long as you’re not a complete imbecile, both of your careers will progress in lockstep where getting ahead on one side means getting ahead on the other.</p>

<p>In much the same way, I don’t come from a wealthy and well-connected family. I graduated from a state university. If I were to work in finance, I would have no edge over my peers. In fact, I might be disadvantaged regardless of how “hard” I work.</p>

<p>I understand you are young. And in HS and college, “working hard” is not a bad route to go. But understand this: academia is not the real world.</p>

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<p>False premise - that the Top Tier school costs more. I’m middle class. After need based aid, the top tier schools costs the same as, or less than, the state college.</p>

<p>For people with high EFC (high income), the additional cost is usually not as much of a factor.</p>

<p>Now, if you are international, and don’t get need based aid, the mere fact you can afford to come to the USA and pay your way, implies that your family can afford, and are likely happy to pay for, top tier.</p>

<p>Some people argue that top tier are the only schools worth borrowing money for, regardless of the cost.</p>

<p>You can make the argument that how well you do in college regardless of the college itself matters the most, but the “brand name” absolutely matters in my opinion. Hard work will get you very far, but it comes down to connections in many cases. And by buying into the brand name you are buying into the connections of that network.</p>

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Thank you for your “opinion” and not “experience”, HSJunior.</p>

<p>Understand that there are career fields (in fact many!) where “college brand name” isn’t significant in determining career progression.</p>

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<p>That doesn’t really matter if you come from a family that already has such connections (e.g. a family with connections in IB, law, etc.) Such connections aren’t available to many people however.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It really depends. In certain fields (law and investment banking come to mind), the school you went to is pretty important and it may be worth taking out some loans. In others (engineering, comp sci, medicine), it’s not worth it. If you know what you want to do you should research that specific field and figure out how important what school you went to is. However, even in fields where the school is important, it is still not as important as what you did there (grades, research, internships, etc.), so the most important thing is picking a place where you think you’ll do well and be happy.</p></li>
<li><p>I went to a second tier flagship state school for undergrad (idk what exactly you consider name brand), and am going to a name brand school next year for my Ph.D. in bioengineering</p></li>
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<p>As someone who worked as the gatekeeper for a lot jobs in finance. I will tell you this. The ppl in our small firm made anywhere from 250k to 2.5 mil a year. We had not one single non ivy employee. When you get hundreds of applications we made a pile of the most reputable schools and started the interview process there. Never once made it to the resume of someone from a state school. And in over a decade only took apps a few times. Usually it was our current Ivy or Ivy peer grads recommending fellow Ivy or Ivy pier grads. </p>

<p>My husband was pretty high up at careerbuilder and companies would ask if there was a way to screen applicants that way. </p>

<p>But on the other side of it neither of us had Ivy degrees though I got my position 100% through nepotism and my husband was hired high level in exchange for giving rights to a product he developed. He was told quite often he was lucky to end up where he was with his generic degree. So it can be done but I personally would say if you can get the better degree do. Yes it may be just a brand…but if you are up against hundreds that brand helps you stand out. If you are confident you will be the best in your field without it or have enough connections. Then it doesn’t matter.</p>