Is a near full-ride to Michigan OOS worth passing over Stanford and Yale?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
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<p>Stanford is one of my favorite universities. I have often openly recommended students attend it over Michigan. And if money is no issue, I would probably recommend Stanford over Michigan. But Michigan for free vs Stanford full cost is a no brainer, assuming money is indeed a factor. Stanford is not $150,000-$200,000 better than Michigan...not by a long shot. So, the only way Stanford would make sense in this case is if $150,000-$200,000 is if that kind of money is relatively insignificant next to one's family's net worth. </p>

<p>And I disagree with HARRRR. There isn't a door that Stanford can open that Michigan cannot. Of course, I am sure that some doors are more easily opened at Stanford, but then again, there is probably a higher rate of qualified students to walk through them at Stanford than at Michigan. Either way, the difference in quality between Stanford and Michigan, although not insignificant, is not as that great...certainly not enough to justify spending an additional $150,000-$200,000.</p>

<p>Finally, one should not judge the Midwest and Northeast with this latest winter. This has been the worst winter since 1993. Most winters in recent memory have been mild.</p>

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<p>It's pretty warm in Ann Arbor today</p>

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<p>I'm going to say something very shocking here. You will probably do better GPA wise for grad school at Stanford than at Michigan. I went to Michigan for undergrad and Stanford for grad school (MS). Stanford was a lot easier, the folks from Berkeley undergrad agrees with this as well. Now you might think... of course grad school is easier... but I was a TA at Stanford for one of the core undergraduate classes, and the same class was a lot harder at Michigan.</p>

<p>I honestly think Michigan is one of the toughest schools in the country to do well in, if you picked a rigorous major and you try to learn the material (and don't cheat), which is not something they tell you in the brochures. Something to think about if you want to goto graduate school. Whether graduate schools know which is harder or not, I'm not sure, I was able to get into Stanford grad school with a 3.2 GPA.</p>

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<p>That's not shocking at all kb10. Many top schools are known for grade inflation. I've even heard that there is a very well known school that is said to be, "hard to get in, harder to flunk out of." Academics are not easily fooled by these things. They know very well what is going on at the top universities. That is why you were admitted to Stanford for grad school with a 3.2 gpa. I've also heard that there are only a few hundred students on Michigan's campus that have a 3.8 gpa or better.</p>

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<p>I've been known of schools that will pile extra work on students ( that should be a students optional choice) and may go overbroad with what should be learn... all purposely just to make the class hard.
Your not saying University of Michigan- Ann Arbor do that are you?
Say Stanford is a high rank Ivy League, and when I hear one say it's a lot easier than Michigan... it brings questions.</p>

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<p>its not that surprising...a lot of ivies are known to give less work then less pretentious schools.</p>

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<p>saying that you hate the cold is reason enough to cross michigan off your list, youre gonna be miserable for the next four years. student loans are tha bad, and your not gonna find ones with a very taxing interest rate around this time of year, so basically if your gonna be miserable at michigan, you need to go somewhere else</p>

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<p>^
he has a near full-ride at umich.</p>

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<p>quicksilver, most of us do not like the cold. That does not mean we should count schools in the North out. 75% of the nation's top universities are located in the Northeast and Midwest. The OP himself is also considering Yale, which is as cold as Michigan.</p>

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<p>not to mention Ann Arbor >> New Haven</p>

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<p>You would crazy to pass up Michigan for (nearly) free vs. Stanford tuition unless you have a high net worth. The loans are not worth it. You'll be broke during school, which would be no fun, and you'll be in a pretty big hole after graduation. Even $50,000 is going to take some time to pay back when you consider that after graduation you'll also need someplace to live, possibly a car, etc. Don't dig yourself into this kind of hole if you don't have to.</p>

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<p>Tyler, I'm pretty sure I know who you are (SSC), and I always assumed you'd go to Stanford. I think going there would be a better fit for you, if you can afford it. I know Michigan really well so if you have any questions you can ask me...</p>

<p>so weird that I stumbled upon this I haven't been on this site since summer.</p>

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<p>How many people can afford to be 200k in the hole after undergraduate studies? We're talking about virtually a free ride here to one of the great universities in this country. It's not like he has to chose, for example, between going to Stanford or Duke everything else being equal. That of course would be a no brainer.</p>

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<p>So I am thinking that going to Stanford will not bankrupt your family or cause other extreme undue fiscal hardship, correct? If that is true, then follow your heart for fit. It's not only your education you're investing in, it's your lifestyle, your connections, your capacity for enjoyment...
To all those saying you'd be crazy to turn down U of M, realize that it is not a question about quality or comparative value here at the crux of it. It seems to me to be more a matter of fit. It sounds to me like you are trying to be practical and fiscally "fair" to your family but that some intuitive part of you "wants what it wants."<br>
It's okay to "want what you want" if your sense is that Stanford is the fit. You will have to make choices later on to make up for that choice, such as working for a spell in corporate law (even if that's not your love) for the high billables to pay the high loans, possibly taking longer to fund your own practice if that's a route you choose...you get the idea : ) But it's an investment and you just need to decide your happiness is worth it.</p>

<p>And don't forget, you're also allowed to be wrong and it's not fatal. You could (if taking the "practical" route) start with Michigan, determine if the weather really matters or see if you fall in love with the school, and if not, transfer to Stanford.</p>

<p>Good luck!
K</p>

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<p>If Stanford offered some type of substantial scholarship to Tyler I would be in agreement with everything you are saying kmccrindle, but unfortunately they didn't. It's not like he hates the thought of going to Michigan. Furthermore, being fiscally "fair" to your family is not exactly something to overlook. As we all know, these are not good times. To not take finances into consideration is not very wise. It seems certain that this individual will go on to graduate school and that is where his mark will be made. Once again Tyler, save your money for that!</p>

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<p>But I have a gut hunch here about the poster.
This will perhaps sound a little metaphysical for the liking of some, but time and again I encounter people when they are torn between following their gut (and taking a major risk) and following the "rational" course...(which is inevitably less risky.)
Risk for risk's sake is nonsense.
However, what I have found time and time again is that the person who is on the horns of the dilemma seems to do best when they follow their gut, particularly if they have a well-developed sense of intuition. It seems to have something to do with communicating your own value to yourself during some crucible-type moment in your life. Years ago, I wrote profiles of highly successful people and came to notice that there was always a pivotal time when every rational bone in their body and everyone around them recommended a particular (safe or sane) course, and yet something told them to act otherwise, and that subsequently following their gut lead to some kind of breakthrough or defining moment.
I know that sounds kind of nuts, and I am usually the first to recommend caution. </p>

<p>So, OP Tyler09, what does your gut say? Way deep down? If it says "CAUTION ON THE FISCAL FRONT" then go to U of M, knowing you can change your mind. If it says "I FEEL MY FUTURE SELF CALLING ME FROM STANFORD" then you know what you want to at least try to do: go and find a way to cause the abundance it will take. Sometimes you just have to take a stand and let the universe know you're open for business : )</p>

<p>If I were your mom, I can tell you that it would break my heart to watch you compromise your heart's desire when you've clearly expended considerable effort to realize your dreams...just because of bad timing (in terms of the market) that could turn before you're finished your first year (or if the investments are moved wisely, even faster...)</p>

<p>Not that I haven't had that kind of conversation with my own son...who in the end (on a smaller scale) passed up a better scholarship/fiscal safety for his preferred school (and then ended up with a surprise scholarship there...)</p>

<p>Okay, perhaps this is not helping you much, Tyler09. What do your folks say about it all?
-K</p>

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<p>Yeah, really. What are your parents views on it?</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of the input all of you! It really does help. I posted this in the parents forum regarding my parents views. </p>

<hr>

<p>My parents are... complicated.</p>

<p>The situation is, my parents are going to pay for my undergrad so that I will not graduate with any loans. The real issue is that they have to start putting my sister through school two years after me, so for two years they will be paying for two kids to go to college at the same time. If the economy picks back up, that won't be so much of a problem as they have saved since me and my sister were born. But if it doesn't, I would have to take out loans that my parents may or may not be able to help me pay off. So unless they can afford to send both me and my sister anywhere we want to go, it wouldn't be fair for me to get to go to HYPS, potentially limiting the options of my sister. </p>

<p>My dad, fiscally, has a very VERY hard time passing up Michigan. It's a GREAT school, and at 160k cheaper he knows that financially, I will likely never recover the difference by paying to go to Stanford. He also has to consider my sister and my graduate school. He knows that wherever I go, I'll have a blast, simply because I'll be on my own in college.</p>

<p>At the same time he has always dreamed of me going to a HYPS school, it is part of his legacy of working hard throughout his life to escape the poverty that he was born into. He knows what it would mean to the rest of our extended family. I know that in having the opportunity to send his kid, and then not being able to because of financial reasons would hurt him. He also knows that while, yes, Stanford law or grad or MBA is FAR more prestigious and financially worth it than undergrad, you are far more shaped as a person by where you go undergrad. He wants me to have the best possible experience during what, for many, are the most fun 4 years of life.</p>

<p>My mom wants me to go to Stanford. Of course there's the aspect where she loves me and she wants me to be happy. She understands the life-value beyond just financials of going where you dream to go and where you fit best. But I also know that part of the reason is that she was forced by her parents to go wherever gave her the most money. She had a great time at the school she went to but always knew that she would have been a better fit at a smaller school with a design program. She knows that because of her decision, she picked a career she likely would not have if she went to the school she wanted. </p>

<p>Ultimately I have no idea what to do. On the one hand I know that the best financial decision, hands down, is Michigan. But why I want to go supersedes financials. But I don't know if I could ask my parents to make an investment based on that. </p>

<p>At the end of the day where I'll end up is determined by where my dad decides, but he is probably even more conflicted then I am. I have yet to really push him into letting me go to Stanford because I don't know if that's the right thing to do. If I push hard to go and he ends up having to say no, that will only make things worse. </p>

<p>So that's why I posted here, to decide what to do. I can choose to say that I would love to go to Michigan and not force my parents to make the decision, or I can advocate for Stanford (or Yale).</p>

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<p>If you go to Yale and your parents dont make a ridiculously huge sum of money a year ive gotten the impression that youre more than likely not going to pay much at all for it. Truly i would sell my kidney to be in the position you are in right now. Stanford...Yale...full ride to Michigan...i see how it is a tough choice as my top choice for college is UM. But hell id guess if you went to Yale or Stanford for undergrad no amount of loans would really be a burden for you to pay back. You'd really have to screw up to not be able to make it with a degree from any of the three schools. Just curious what sort of stats helped you get an offer of a full ride to UM? I'm trying to go there from OOS and financially its looking very grim.</p>

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<p>It seems that your parents are asking very little of you with regards to paying for your education. I would guess that your parents have worked very hard and given you everything possible for the past 17-18 years. Think of what kind of difference $160,000 would make for them paying off a mortgage, in retirement, etc.</p>

<p>Just think about it. You're in the position to save your parents a ton of money. But I think possibly importantly, you should be in the position to be independent yourself. My parents have been in the position to pay for my education and housing at U-M. But I've worked and tried to contribute what I can. I'm guessing that you will try and do the same for your parents. My parents have helped me with tuition when I needed it, but I have never taken a dime from them for rent, books, bills, living expenses, etc. It feels great to have this burden off my parents' backs, especially when they are worried about losing jobs, retirement savings that have lost a ton of money, another kid in college soon, etc. I am currently co-oping, and when I return to school in the fall, I will be fully independent of my parents. Knowing that I pay for everything while all of my friends get a monthly check from mom and dad makes me feel pretty proud.</p>

<p>I know that my parents would have helped me with school a lot more and never thought twice about it. But it feels pretty good to know that after my parents did so much for me, I tried to help them as much I could while they gave me a whole lot this last time. At the very least, I won't feel at all guilty about what I do with my money after college, such as possibly buying a new car the day I graduate. I'd feel pretty rotten if I did this after letting my parents pay for all of my school. Save your parents the money, and whatever you come through by means of internships, co-ops, etc. will be yours to enjoy. I've come across a good amount of money through intern / co-op while at Michigan, and if I was on a scholarship, I know that I would have a very awesome savings pool at graduation.</p>

<p>Choosing Michigan is definitely something to help out your parents...but I think having a near full-ride to U-M will allow you to be independent and able to live for yourself, never have to think twice about doing something, etc. Good luck with your decision.</p>