Is a university that promotes its first generation ratio good for those who are not?

I am not sure my son knows either. It is just a safe default to assume they work at a tech company and their kids are majoring in CS, which he will not be. He’s undeclared and I really hope something excites him his first year. Programming does not, and believe me it’s not for lack of his parents trying. He’s even less interested in natural sciences. He’s good enough at math to hold his own and more interested in history and literature than other subjects. When he used to talk to me (remember, this is a 17 year old) he could be really funny and insightful, and I have heard this from his teachers as well.

He’s got to figure it out. But I know he at least compares himself to his peers, some of whom are more driven: e.g. a friend who he knew when he used to swim, who’s also a better swimmer, also got into a much better UC in a tech major. That might not be the norm because he only mentioned one person. He has other friends in a similar waitlist situation.

I think there’s only one message to give your kid at this point- whatever you do, knock the cover off the ball.

That doesn’t mean all A’s (we never gave our kids that message, and they did not do that). It DOES mean taking advantage of “once in a lifetime” type opportunities that come your way when you’re in college. Kid is choosing between cushy job checking ID’s at the athletic center (and meeting cute guys/girls along the way) vs. a professor’s offer to fact-check an article or book which requires real effort and research- pick the fact checking. You have the rest of your life to check ID’s somewhere… You have a choice between beer pong with your friends or going to hear the Dalai Lama debate nuclear proliferation with a former member of the Taliban (obviously my example is made-up), pick the debate.

Etc. There are kids who trudge through four years at elite U and never step outside their comfort zone, and kids at a “more representative” type U who constantly seek to challenge themselves.

For the same investment (time, cash, etc.) your son can be challenging himself. I think this is much more important than him suddenly gaining awareness of his classmates privilege or the lack thereof…

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Honestly that seems like a weird assumption to make.

The desire to achieve has to come from within though. The thing is, I didn’t go to all that great a university myself. It was a big state university with lots of research going on and a great fit for me. I did go into it absolutely sure I was hot stuff because I had been working with early microcomputers and electronics on my own as a teen, thought I was going to be a great entrepreneur, and also fancied myself very well read and sophisticated for my age. So the drive was always there. Not everything turned out. I took grad level courses as undergrad and impressed my algorithms professor enough that the fact that I choked on the final didn’t change his mind.

Not really knocking the cover off the ball. Let’s see. I’m not a sports person though my daughter used to play softball. I guessed I hit a few out of the park and broke a windshield or two (like she did once, don’t tell). But there were a lot of strikes, a lot of walks and few “Thank God the umpire didn’t notice.”

I did not become an entrepreneur of any kind. I did go on to grad school and a well-compensated career. My son is a lot like me in some ways. I recognize the erratic path. What he lacks is the north star that keeps the path going in one direction. Or maybe he’s just not telling, because he’s a teenager. I hope it’s that.

I almost forget to add: “Knock the cover off” reminds me of one of my peeves, when you tell kids “Just do your best.” Uh, what? Given that you cannot achieve more than your best, this is not really very comforting advice, though it is delivered as though it is. I think what I would like to say is “Don’t be afraid to fail. Try something new and figure out if you want to get better at it.” Even when you have the drive, you still don’t have to do your “best” just make a serious effort.

Which assumption? By the way, I was joking a little. E.g., there are doctors and lawyers in the mix. We had a neighbor who is a patent attorney, though I don’t think my kids would know if I hadn’t mentioned. I thought that was interesting and remembered. Not all those in tech are engineers. Some are former engineers in management for instance and some do other things at tech companies. And yeah, some do things entirely unrelated to tech, though even some of those parents push their kids into Silicon Valley careers.

But to repeat, I was joking, exaggerating, whatever you want to call it. I agree with you that my kids are far less attuned to this than I am.

(There might be another disconnect here. I mean, there’s some awareness or assumptions about parents’ jobs in my local community. When my son goes to college, I agree that it will not be on his radar at all with respect to other college students, nor will I try to speculate about it.)

The desire to achieve comes from within- but how you define achieving is a slow evolution throughout adulthood- and I think you can help your kid with that during the college years.

Not everybody can be/should be gunning for a Rhodes scholarship or to become a Supreme Court justice or to unlock the epigenetics of lung cancer in non-smokers. That doesn’t mean that an 18 year old who might not be the most ambitious kid in his class in HS cannot become the best version of himself by the time he graduates from college. I’ve seen it in kids who were classic underachievers in HS; I’ve seen it in “nice, capable, but not the brightest bulb in the box” kids, I’ve seen it in kids whose life challenges seemed so overwhelming that succeeding in college (however you define success) was not even top of mind.

Just sayin’.

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I noticed that while class just wasn’t something that entered anyone’s head at the public magnet I attended (which had kids ranging from dirt-poor to upper-middle-class), class differences were much more noticeable at the private college I went to (which still had dirt-poor kids but ranged all the way to WSJ-headlining bazillionaire families). Upper-middle-class families didn’t vacation in Switzerland or the South Pacific (at least in the ‘90’s). Nor were the ones who opted for a public magnet spending the equivalent of a whole working-class household’s income on boarding school tuition and ECs. Back then, the upper-middle-class wasn’t spending a decent sum on tutoring services either.

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That’s interesting. And it makes me feel better about my son going to a university that should be a lot more down to earth and hopefully attracts serious students from a range of socioeconomic statuses.

Despite everything I’ve said, I think this is going to be an exciting step for him. I’m often surprised at those who advocate the community college + transfer route, unless it’s for financial reasons. Going to college is still a big deal and the course work is only part of it.

The widening gap between what I would call the upper-middle-class and families wealthy enough to be full-pay at a private college has become a hot topic lately. Back in the day, you were considered rich if you could afford a ski package at Killington. Nowadays, that would be considered “quaint”.

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I’m just happy I can pay my kids’ way at public universities without straining the budget. My parents did have to stretch (middle class with large baby boom family). Sometimes I wonder if we should have considered more expensive schools, but my son showed no interest in that anyway. People are generally not that ostentatious with their money in Silicon Valley. Luxury cars may be one exception, but not everyone has a Tesla (I don’t!). Some of the international travel is to home countries. We used to drive to Tahoe like many families do, but that’s comparable to trips to the Poconos when I was growing up in PA.

I would say that in the time I’ve been here there’s been an increase in conspicuous consumption, but it still feels like more of a striver/saver culture to me and that’s what I like about it.

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Some parts of Orange County are much more ostentatious, as in Rolls Royce and Bentley cars are not that unusual there.

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I admit I don’t remember seeing Rolls Royces or Bentleys. At one point there was a sudden rash of Maseratis with their trident logos, but I think Maserati had introduced a low-end model. Plenty of BMWs around here to be sure, as well as Teslas.

The cheapest new Maserati is over $70K. But those things depreciate fast. A pre-owned Maserati (with warranty) costs about the same as a new economy car.

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I’d always rather buy real estate than a luxury car. The market value can change, but there are very few ways in which you literally lose the use of land (I do wonder about some of the cliffside properties on the coast). I think because I have depression-era parents and because my wife is an immigrant, we’re like the perfect skinflint couple. I don’t really think I have deprived my kids. They are pretty content with small pleasures. (Who knows, when they have money they may rebel bigtime.)

The first new car purchase I ever allowed myself was a Prius a few years back. Just regular, not plugin. It was well worth it, and if I could that big a kick out of a car in that range, why spend more?

Some observations from a European living in the Bay Area. On average, the college entrance system in the US heavily favors girls (that are developmentally ahead of their male peers in executive functioning in critical grades 10 and 11) and boys (kids in general) that have parents that micromanage their life to an unhealthy (in my opinion) degree. In most European counties entrance to universities is more likely to hinge on performance during high stakes entrance exams at the end of senior year. I went to high school with many bright male peers that had pretty abysmal grades but got their act together in senior year and achieved great results in their college entrance exams. They would not have had a chance in the system that our kids are navigating. My son who is a few years behind my daughter is a prime example of someone who is bright but has a philosophical quibble with what he considers busy work. Whereas my daughter was motivated (to an unhealthy degree) by good grades, he is not. He’ll probably take the CC to 4 year university route because even though I know he’ll get his act together at some point it will probably not be in time for the US college system. But he needs to find his own North Star.

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It could still cost a lot more in maintenance and repair bills.

Yes! Though I am not sure the high-stakes exam is great thing either. I suddenly had a flashback to a French exchange student at my high school in the 80s who was doing something that might be called a gap year now. All I know is he was older and needed to wait a year to retake his exam for college. I may have that garbled, but it sounded awfully depressing to me.

The worst of it, I think, is that to excel in the US system, you sort of have to prove you’re a “leader” or a “personality” or something. I don’t really know what. I gave up micromanaging my son when he pushed back hard. I also discovered that he didn’t need anyone to check his homework or remind him to study for tests. He didn’t want to fail either. But nothing looks very special about his college application. He didn’t want help with his essays either, though he told me he looked at sample essays and guides online.

What do you do? I believe he’s underselling himself, but on the other hand I feel confident that he can do college-level work without my assistance.

I still don’t understand what your worry has to do with the university promoting or having a large number of first gen students?

Every parent worries about their kid going to college and none of us know if they picked the right school until they go there and experience it. The great thing is that if it turns out to be the wrong choice, they can transfer.

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I don’t believe this is true. Certainly not for my kids, who were not those things. And certainly not for spouse and myself (graduates of the so-called “elite” schools) although that was in a kinder, gentler age.

I think the best thing you can do is to encourage him to take advantage of the incredible opportunities at a university and then step back. I’m not sure what “underselling” himself means based on your description- no real academic passions? He can find that in college. No overwhelming desire to bend the arc, change the world, leave his mark, etc? He can find that in college as well. Encourage him to step outside his comfort zone- go with his roommate to the poetry slam even if it sounds boring. Go with a classmate to a swing dance class even if he has two left feet. Go to office hours with a professor who is really interesting- just to introduce himself and say “I don’t think I understood that concept until you related it to climate change” (or whatever). Talk to people.

He’ll figure it out!

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I don’t think I could explain any better than I attempted in the original post, and maybe it didn’t make much sense, but I appreciate the advice I have gotten in the process. Let’s just look it as the university says “We are special because of X” and I look at my son and think “X does not apply to my son.” OK, so is this the right fit for him? There may be other things.

I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to worry about being out of alignment with a stated mission, but am I chasing phantoms? Maybe so. It helps to talk through it.