<p>The point is, just because one comes from an elite “prep” school doesn’t mean anything really about one’s SES because, like Amherst, these schools recruit and admit people from all walks of life. I’m personally put off by all of these stereotypes about “preppy” students versus others. There are all kinds of people in these schools so it’s pretty ridiculous in my book to make any generalizations except they’ve had a very privileged high school education. The same can be said from people who come from elite private day schools or even elite public schools. Amherst admits students who are high achieving. That means, many of them come from high schools that are well endowed. My daughter went to an all girls Catholic School and attends Amherst. We definitely aren’t rich - but solidly middle-class. She has never complained about the school be too “preppy”. People of all backgrounds find their niche and seem to thrive.</p>
<p>As I’ve said before, I don’t see “preppy” as necessarily negative in connotation or even synonymous with wealthy. I know lots of preppy middle-class kids; they go to my (public) HS.</p>
<p>so, why are we have a conversation about how “preppy” Amherst is if it really doesn’t matter and represents one of many demographics?</p>
<p>There was a book (long ago and far away–I’m dating myself) titled “The Preppy Handbook.” Anyone remember that? It was the source of much discussion during my college days in Massachusetts. It was sort of a humorous, semi-mocking tutorial on the mores and habits and dresscodes of the prepsters. The true prep culture never changes–it is passed down generation to generation. However, there are many pretenders who look the part but don’t really belong–though they seemingly want to. There are very few true preppies around. A preppy isn’t merely someone wearing a Lacoste polo (collar up) and docksiders (no socks even in winter) carrying a lacrosse stick. When a real preppy looks at a non-preppy you can hear his/her ancestors whispering in his/her ear “NOKD.” If you don’t know what “NOKD” means then you’re not a real preppy or you have not read “The Preppy Handbook” (I say jokingly --just to clarify–because I know there are people who will take this seriously.) </p>
<p>We are not a family of prepsters but my D loved both Amherst and Yale when we visited–found both diverse and egalitarian enough for her.</p>
<p>I’d like to add that my kid at Amherst didn’t go to an elite high school, public or private. In fact he barely went to high school at all. His very upper class (not!) parents both graduated from non-ranked state colleges. His grandparents included an intermittantly employed bartender, an alligator poacher/heavy equipment operator, a worker in an egg farm with a 6th grade education, and a petty mid-level bureaucrat with only a high school education who worked her whole life in the state department of of employment… and that last one was the big success story!</p>
<p>Now, if that kid doesn’t feel like an outcast… there must be some truth to the posts that talk about kids from all kinds of backgrounds forming a diverse community at Amherst!</p>
<p>lmpw - Not sure if the question was addressed at me, but I’ll answer it anyway. How “preppy” Amherst is DOES matter, but it’s not a positive or negative characteristic–it just is. I think Amherst’s community is absolutely diverse and non-preppy kids can fit in fine… but that doesn’t change a school’s dominant social characteristic.</p>
<p>But, I guess my question is why does how “preppy” matter more than how Black, Jewish, Waspy, Asian, Latino, New England or New York or many other categories a college might be? I see where Harvard is getting ready to start a preppy clothing line. I see being preppy more as an attitude more than anything else. I just don’t understand the fixation on this one category. Amherst is an elite school, yes there will be preppy students there along with a wide variety of other kids. If someone can’t deal with being around “preppy” kids (in numbers small or large), then there are a lot of outstanding colleges that they’ll have to cross off their list.</p>
<p>Lots of students have crossed off Brandeis, an excellent college, because of the predominant Jewish influence. Do non-Jews have a great experience at Brandeis? Absolutely. But others might not be comfortable in that atmosphere, just as some others might not be comfortable in a “preppy” atmosphere. (For the record, one of my two personal motivations for eliminating Brandeis from my college list was the severely restricted seafood offerings in the dining halls. I adore seafood and felt that catering all-college dining halls to the needs of Jewish students reflected an unwanted institutional priority.)</p>
<p>Well, I’m on the side of Amherst not being too preppy. I understand that Keil thinks it is kind of preppy and that’s not bad, and Oldbatesiedoc thinks it is kinda preppy and that’s not always good, but it might just be bad experiences at info sessions and tours (according to her – not dissing you in any way, just trying to summarize), and we all seem to have sightly different definitions of preppy and…</p>
<p>I think almost all students who were admitted to Amherst and nowhere else they could afford or no where else at all would have a good experience, be able to find a social group and receive a good education.</p>
<p>In the end, that’s all a school really needs to offer.</p>
<p>I’m sure there are schools that many would prefer for a host of reasons, all the way from needing an Ivy, an urban campus, a more racially diversified campus, a more Jewish campus, a more crunchy campus, a more conservative campus, a more religious campus.</p>
<p>But I don’t think on the face of it that Amherst’s preppiness or lack there of would be deal breaker for most students.</p>
<p>I am not trying to say all the ideas presented aren’t valuable. They are.</p>
<p>And if we go around the same bush again a dozen times I’m not even saying that I won’t post some more.</p>
<p>So why am I writing this? Not sure. Just felt motivated.</p>
<p>Carry on.</p>
<p>Myth mom, I always enjoy your posts and your perspectives. Keil, I taught at Brandeis in 1989. I’m truly surprised that you’re saying the food isn’t reflective of a diverse student body. When I was there, many observant Jews were very upset that non-kosher food was being offered. But, the student body was not only Jewish, there were Asian students, students of color who were not Jewish and other non-Jewish students as well. So, even 20 years ago, they were aware that they had to offer food for a non-Jewish students.On the other hand, I had a Jewish student complain at another campus where I taught that there wasn’t kosher food in the dining halls. If this was such an important issue, her parents should have confirmed that such food was offered.</p>
<p>^I’m not saying that the food isn’t reflective of a “diverse student body”; I’m saying that it is reflective of institutional priorities. There are enough observant Jews at Brandeis that the school feels the need to prioritize their nutrititional requests, which is a perfectly fine position to take–but it’s not a priority that I agree with, and therefore I am not applying to the school. As an atheist, I disagree with any institutional positions relating to religious practice, when those positions impact other students (i.e. not just kosher options, but all dining halls being kosher or nearly-kosher).</p>
<p>As someone else said, all information is useful. And I do think that looking at percentage of kids receiving financial aid is useful in this regard. Rich kids don’t get financial aid (I hope!). But adding that percentage to percentage of kids from private schools really waters down the usefullness of the financial aid data.</p>
<p>First, not every kid that goes to private high school is well off. (The affluent private high schools hand out a lot of scholarship money and those scholarship kids, if they’ve done well, are highly sought after by the selective colleges.)</p>
<p>Also, a lot of the private schools aren’t close to wealthy to begin with. Colleges do a lot of diversity recruiting in the urban parochial schools and I would think they show up as private schools. And finally, there’s lots of very well off public high school students in the applicant pool of expensive private schools.</p>
<p>I actually hadn’t seen mimi’s entitlement index when I first posted. but when I looked at it I was AMAZED at the identity of some of the schools that according to the index are significantly less entitled than Williams. Schools that I know from first hand experience have rip roaring, beer drinking, fraternity dominated, who’s got the nicer car, be there or you’re square social scenes that are the only thing to do on Saturday night. </p>
<p>So I’d say, be careful w/ that index because for whatever reason, it doesn’t do what it says it does.</p>
<p>Wow, I’m amazed that we are still finding more to say about the Preppy Issue.Can I stir the pot again? Probably not, I’ve said my piece(s), but I’d like to point out that Amherst has the most posts on the P word of any other LAC…</p>
<p>Because ignorance and false rumor are intolerable, and it is a noble pursuit to expose those who are under the false impression that they are well-informed for what they truly are.</p>
<p>Whoa Kwu, watch the name-calling. You MUST be a non-preppy Amherst grad.
I thought Vossron’s actual prepster data said it all, really…</p>
<p>Kwu is actually a current student and classmate of my D, who has always provided a fair perspective from an informed current students POV.</p>
<p>It’s deeply troubling when prospective and admitted-and-considering students arrive on campus with false preconceived notions in their head, ones that will negatively color how they perceive Amherst–to the extent that they become completely and utterly close-minded to everything else, and solely attentive to this one damning, illusory quality, the only thing that matters in the end.</p>
<p>“Oh, I keep hearing that Amherst is preppy; I don’t want to go to a school that’s preppy” <em>crosses Amherst off the list without a second thought</em></p>
<p>I suppose Amherst would be better off without these people who make life-changing decisions based on the spurious opinions of others, but considering that Amherst is trying very, very hard to help non-traditional and disadvantaged students feel welcome and embraced on campus, OldbatesieDoc, you are causing more harm then you realize.</p>
<p>Kwu, all the positive posts in this thread from people who have had a direct experience of the school tell the tale. A few posts from a couple of people with no direct experience of the school just aren’t going to carry much weight. But I guess they serve a purpose in a way because they got those of us who know what it’s actually like at Amherst an opportunity to share that!</p>
<p>isn’t it always preconceived notions which kill any sort of serious dialogue, or discovery? CC has its share of those who rely on, or perpetuate, so many of these notions about schools and those who inhabit them. some opinions may not even be based on any real, perceptual, experience at all. instead, it might be the case they are ideas simply implanted in one’s head and accepted w/o investigation. in fact, it seems as a society we have this constant need to label so that we can quickly ‘understand,’ categorize, and move on. i’ve only visited amherst a couple of times and really don’t know any students, so perhaps i have no business on this thread, but i suspect the admissions folks work hard at creating a place filled with smart kids who care about excellence and contributing to a vibrant community of learning. they will, hopefully, wear all kinds of different clothing, come from different backgrounds, and different places but, hopefully, what binds them is their common pursuit of relevant knowledge coupled with the desire to share and enjoy the residential college experience. nothing is perfect and amherst is no different. i say all this with a son attending another nescac school of the same size and reputation. thankfully, he did not pay attention to what others said he would experience while there. he finds most of the stereotypes thrown his way to be myths or exagerations and completely irrelevant to the larger picture of actively engaging in the serious business of expanding one’s base of knowledge and experience. of course pettiness exists everywhere but i hope, and expect, those at amherst seek to rise above that sort of trait and, instead, engage all who have insightful thoughts and, especially, all who wish to replace preconceive thoughts with a different kind of knowledge.</p>
<p>Here we go again.I’m not being malicious, or trying to harm anyone. I thought, perhaps mistakenly, that it was ok to post both positive and negative opinions.I have said several times that Amherst is a great school, and they are apparently going out of their way to welcome many students from diverse backgrounds.But there will be preppies…If all we are supposed to post is positive comments, this forum will be useless.</p>