@calmom well we are still waiting to get his PSAT score so we aren’t sure about the NM status but I’m sure you’re right that with a total of 9 AP classes, and his other stats, it really shouldn’t matter what box the GC checks. That said, S21 did speak with her today and she reassured him he was doing great and his academic rigor rating would not be an issue.
“But what does it matter if the HS thinks it’s rigorous or not? HS can think whatever they want. it’s the colleges that matter.”
The GC is the first and long term “eyes on.” That rating is one educator speaking to other educators (the colleges.) Yes, it matters.
As ucbalumnus is saying, it’s not “all,” but it’s the start. It comes straight from that high school context.
But when you have a range of college choices, it may matter less to some than others.
@sherimba03 While it is a moot point since your son’s course rigor is not an issue, you should be aware that for top colleges it very much matters which box the GC checks. Admissions officers at top colleges absolutely want to see the “most rigorous” designation checked off by the GC. Overall course rigor is a good thing for your S to briefly discuss with the GC about when he prepares his schedule each year.
@happy1 I hear you, however S21 is getting a little stressed by my trying to explain this to him. He says it’s too late to do anything about APUSH - that ship has sailed and he’s not allowed to take it next year - and he’s already planning to take 5 AP classes next year. If his GC is going to ding him for not having taken APUSH then that’s our fault for not knowing to ask about it as a rising junior and her fault for not recognizing his talent and speaking to him about it when he registered for 11th grade classes. Not unexpected given that he is in an extremely overcrowded public school.
It sounds to me like there is no reason to stress since his GC said his rigor was strong. Typically there is some leeway in getting that most rigorous designation so your S likely does not have to take every single AP class that is offered to get it. In fact at our HS some non-APs are considered more rigorous than some APs. (ex. Latin 4 is considered more rigorous than say AP Psych). I only mentioned discussing course rigor with the GC as something he might do address he plans schedules going forward. Please try and stop your S from stressing about it.
"However, from a risk-based decision-making standpoint the odds are extremely high that if he scores, for example, an SI 224, then he will be named a Semi-Finalist in California. "
Ok but being a NMSF is not going to help all that much with the MIT, CMUs and the ivies, which look to be your on your son’s list. NMSFs do well in college admissions, no doubt, but it’s more correlation than causation.
@theloniusmonk yes I agree that NMF won’t help with those schools. We are basically planning for multiple alternate pathways: 1) NMF = full ride at a Florida or Arizona school, 2) UCB or UCLA full pay with UCI, UCSD and UCSB as safeties, 3) Football as hook to Ivy or similar, figuring out how much we can afford between a moderate(<10k/year) amount of loans, me, his father, and any potential grandparent contribution. We don’t think he would really have time for a job, at least during football season and maybe a few pre- and post-season months?
Note that if he plays American football, consider the semester versus quarter system in terms of how much of the academic year overlaps with football season.
My D19 did not end up at an elite school. She took APUSH in HS and passed the test. At her school she ended up getting 6 credit hours(2 classes) for APUSH. She is a happy STEM kid that will never have to take a history class in college.
Her big win was taking two years of AP Spanish(I forget the names of each). Passing both got her 17 credit hours. And it is going to allow her to double major with one being Spanish. She gets to feel a little special walking into a 300-level Spanish class as a freshman.
My two cents is if your child isn’t going to be a science major then I would drop AP Bio and take APUSH.
I think your son’s stats are strong for any UC, but I don’t think that UCI, UCSD, or UCSB can be viewed as “safeties” for anyone anymore. A strong match – for sure – but competition for admission to all campuses has gotten very keen and at each campus is going to consider a variety of different factors in making admission decisions. Last year the admit rate at UCSB for California residents was 30% - at UCLA it was 12%. You can take a look at these admission trends here: https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/freshman-admissions-summary
Your son certainly has good chances of admission at those schools, but to view them as “safeties” is setting your family up for potential disappointment. I personally don’t think any school with admission rates below 50% can be viewed as a “safety” – the mistake people make is the assumption that the schools are making linear decisions based on stats, rather than recognizing that college admissions is holistic process with an agenda of admission of a broad array of students with many different interests and talents. So at every school, you are going to see many students with relatively lower stats admitted over higher stat students for a variety of reasons. For example, some of that 30% of students who are admitted to UCSB are applicants to the College of Creative Studies – on average, those students probably have lower stats than students admitted to the College of Engineering, but the ad com has to fill the slots at each of its three undergraduate colleges, and also consider yield factors for each in making its offers.
@calmom okay, I see your point. Thanks for pointing this out; as S21 works on his list I will be sure to have him include some seriously-truly-safe safety schools.
I was not aware of the “Most Rigorous” designation. Does anyone know how the question is stated? And what are the other designations under most rigorous? Our high school allows the top 5% to attend a “math and science center” in our city for 1/2 a day. My daughter passed the test and screening, but in the end decided she was more interested in social sciences and humanities, so she “only” attends our local high school. She has the most AP classes of any student in her class through 11th grade, but the students who attend the math and science center have more. I’m wondering how the counselor saw her in comparison and therefore wondering how the question is stated.
Click “School Report” on https://membersupport.commonapp.org/membersupport/s/article/Are-paper-PDF-versions-of-the-application-and-or-recommender-forms-available .
Note that the schedule rating is not the only thing that the counselor rates for the student. There are several other counselor rating checkboxes that are likely just as important. For unhooked applicants to the most selective colleges, the highest rating checkboxes are likely necessary, but not sufficient, to have a chance of admission.
I wasn’t aware either. My DD went through the process last year and I had no idea. (Hence my uninformed comment about what does it matter if the HS said so)
@Nhatrang - The only reason I knew about it while my D was in HS was because my D had a big scheduling snafu in her junior year where the only section of math conflicted with her Spanish class. The guidance counselor told us she was one of the few students on track to get the most demanding/rigor box checked and they made sure she was able to replace Spanish with an AP course.
From what I gathered, this wasn’t something they commonly shared until senior year GC meetings where it was too late to do anything about it. (AP courses were pretty regulated in her school and had GPA and teacher recommendations requirements. I can only imagine the push back and scramble to get into more AP/honors courses if parents knew the criteria for “most rigorous.”)
^^ Exactly! That information should have been shared since freshman. Like many said before, it’s not everything but it’s a start. There are colleges for everyone, of course. But if your own school doesn’t think you are comparative (enough), what would the college think?
I don’t see how having the “most rigorous” box checked could be necessary for any college. That’s like saying above a 4.0 weighted GPA is necessary. GC’s checking a box is not standardized at all. Even within our high school, each GC does it differently.
The school offers 27 AP’s, along with some courses you have to apply for to earn a spot, and some Honors classes which are harder than the less rigorous AP’s. Each GC has over 500 kids and their own system (or random method) for deciding which box to check. Some may only check it if you took BC Calc and Physics C. For others, AP Music Theory, Spanish Lit., Art History, Comparative Gov. or Micro/Macro Econ might work. Others might be happy with Honors classes and AP Euro, who knows?
I would say a check in a box is meaningless compared to the student’s actual transcript, the school’s profile, and the content of the LOR’s.
As noted above, it is a significant factor at many schools.
College admissions officers generally disagree.
Parents/students are obviously free to ignore/discount it, but they should be aware of the facts.
Our GC’s will not discuss this box with students or parents. They will advise students on what classes to take to be competitive for certain colleges, and that’s it.
I would like a source that says that any college considers it necessary to have the “most rigorous” box checked.
Also, what I wrote was more than what you quoted:
“As noted above, it is a significant factor at many schools.”
The poster’s point about it being not as important as transcript, profile, and LORs is a good one. For most of the selective colleges probably 75% have the most rigorous checked, so that’s why the transcript is evaluated whether the box is checked or not. If there are AP courses offered in core subjects, and you don’t take them, it could be a concern. It doesn’t mean you have to take all of them, or that you won’t get in.