<p>Just a warning to prospective collegiate athletes that some employers will be looking for much more out of you than just playing sports. My daughter is a 3-season athlete at an academically and athletically elite Div. 1 school (runs xc and track). She also has one other membership with responsibility, being on the board of an organization. She washes dishes too, but that's not on her resume of course. That is all she can do and often way too much to do, especially now that her training has increased under a new coaching system.</p>
<p>She has had several interviews lately where the interviewer has implied that she isn't doing enough. They want more leadership, more involvement, etc. She is feeling very frustrated and upset, because frankly we drank the Koolaid about many companies liking and respecting athletes. She is spending 30+ hours a week on her sport right now---the 20 official hours and more on her own that the coach requires, such as time in the weight room, runs on her own, and time with the trainer and in PT.</p>
<p>This is exactly what I have been concerned about with my own kids, and I’m glad you are bringing this up (thank you for your honesty–it is not easy to look critically at something that already makes many of us uncomfortable, with its huge requirement of time and money).</p>
<p>My d is a senior and opted for d3. My s is a sophomore and I know he would prefer a larger, d1 type of environment for college. I am starting to think uneasily that he will not be able to continue sports in college because if he does, he won’t be able to continue his involvement in politics, debate, student govt, etc. But he is a 2 sport athlete who has been physically active his whole life–I think he will hate being out of shape for the first time ever. I would recommend d3 to him except that I truly think he needs a large, diverse campus, unlike my d who needs a small LAC in order to grow and thrive.</p>
<p>I wish there was a database of coaches/programs in every sport where we could look up which programs were more demanding and required more than the 20 hours, ha ha. I do hear gossip, where people tell me that this school or that school has a more “relaxed” program but who knows.</p>
<p>No doubt about it. Sports alone aren’t going to impress any prospective employer other than the NFL, NBA or a few others. A job applicant needs strong academics too.</p>
<p>Take my son as a counterexample. He’s a senior student/athlete in a demanding major at a well respected university. For him academics come first, athletics second, and he has no significant participation in any other ECs.</p>
<p>He recently started his job search and it’s going better than he (or we) could have imagined. No problem getting interviews with top firms, and he has a couple of good offers already.</p>
<p>He tells me that his sports participation is typically discussed but that he hasn’t been asked about any other ECs.</p>
<p>My S plays a higher visibility sport. His teammates have had no problems in finding employment. Some have gone to front office jobs in their college sport, others are playing the sport professionally, some have gone on to med school, others to the financial world. The network at his school, is immense.</p>
<p>Their grades are no better then the mean of the school.</p>
<p>If (and when) his stab at professional sports ends, he will have no issues in finding a job either in a front office of his sport or the financial world, or continue on to grad school.</p>
<p>I also thank you for bringing up this subject. But I will take it to a slightly different angle.</p>
<p>I really don’t think my D believes her (possible) involvement in college athletics is going to get her a career advantage. She just enjoys crew for the fun of it and (so far) wants to row in college.</p>
<p>At this point in time, we have no idea whether she will be good enough to be involved in varsity sports at the college level. But whether she is or not, I feel a larger question is – what is considered a legitimate part of a school experience? In either high school or college.</p>
<p>This is a disagreement that my ex and I currently have. My ex (who was never an athlete) is strongly on the side that not only does academics come first, but that it is the only thing that matters. I believe that also being involved in things outside the classroom, the library and homework is part of being a student too.</p>
<p>However, I am very much opposed to the very large time commitment that school sports “require.” I feel there should be a strictly enforced limit on practice time … no more than six or eight hours per week. As opposed to the current 20 hours or more.</p>
<p>When it comes time, next year, to choosing a college I think my D may have to accept that club sports (or even intramurals) is a more logical and reasonable way to manage one’s time.</p>
<p>I guess I should restate what our concept was. It’s not that we thought athletics would give an extra special advantage in the job search over other qualified applicants with demanding EC’s. Rather, we thought it would be looked at very favorably in the same way an employer would view the kid who’s editor of the college newspaper, president of the College Republicans/Democrats, or head of a campus charitable organization. While the latter are more academic pursuits, they require a large time commitment like sports and therefore good time management skills. The popular wisdom we heard was that companies like athletes because they assume the ability to perform under pressure, good teamwork and good people skills, high energy, and a strong, healthy body.</p>
<p>Also, it’s hard to get a good handle on what a team’s time commitment will be just from what you learn on an OV. First of all, people tend to downplay things because they want you to come. Secondly, people don’t tend to mention what happens when you’re injured: more hours than normal due to the need for treatment from the trainer, PT and rehab exercises on your own, and perhaps massages. Third, coaches come and go. D has had 3 different coaches in 3 years. An athlete can only assess the program as it is when s/he is recruited. This last coach of D’s is much more demanding than the previous ones. I doubt my D would have chosen this school had he been the coach 3 years ago. In fact, she was recruited by him at a different school and turned it down. </p>
<p>And again I’ll be honest. It’s hard to keep up your grades when you are dedicating so much time to your sport. Yes, there are really smart kids who can do it and some of them have parents who post on CC. D is just normal smart. I fear her GPA will keep dropping and will end up below the level normally required by employers.</p>
<p>Why isn’t the dish washing on her resume? Is it a job or does she live at home? If it is a real job, put it on her resume, it will help. I would also say that the people she is interviewing with are clueless. I would hire 100 cross country runners over the “president” of some club ANY DAY!!!</p>
<p>No, D goes to school far away from home. The campus career office had her take off her resume way “better” jobs than that, since she did them in high school and there was a need to keep her resume to one page. If those jobs weren’t professional enough (which is what they said), dish washing certainly isn’t. Cafeteria labor might impress people who value the willingness to do hard, menial work, but it doesn’t impress the companies coming to campus to hire business and finance people.</p>
<p>TheGFG–well I guess I will disagree with the career office then. Those types of jobs are very much what get you recognized in your first job out of college. Not having those on her resume looks like she hasn’t ever had a job and that is very bad. I wouldn’t hire someone with a resume of no summer jobs in college. To me that says “spoiled prince or princess” that doesn’t know how to work. Sorry. I work and hire in the finance industry…</p>
<p>That’s a great post, G. I think most of us on this forum have a pretty high opinion of kids who can compete in a D1 program and do the academic work. I guess that sentiment isn’t shared by everyone, though.</p>
<p>Obviously the time commitment required takes a toll on academics. And that’s what all these athletes need to weigh. If you could graduate with a 3.6 GPA and no sport, does that outweigh a 3.0 plus a varsity D1 sport? How about if you’re a team captain? Or an NCAA champion? It’s a tough call. Probably explains why the attrition rate is so high in the equivalency sports. </p>
<p>SteveMA - I had a conversation with a guy who manages a fund and he told me he likes to hire new grads that have worked as servers / waiters. He felt they were more adept at dealing with difficult people.</p>
<p>Steve, she has worked every summer since freshman year of high school. The cafeteria work is a small job she does during the academic year to give her a little spending money. I only mentioned it because it takes a few more hours from her week and contributes to the level of busyness which precludes the additional involvement which, apparently, some employers would like to see from her.</p>
<p>Varska, I think one problem is that foreigners don’t understand the American college athletic system. They don’t have a clue as to the time demands of daily training–they seem to think being on a team means the students plays a game once or twice a week. We have more and more foreign-born people who are now in key positions in American companies. A second issue is that some people just don’t appeciate involvement in sports. To them it is silly. No offense to women–I am a woman after all–but this is sometimes the case with female hiring managers.</p>
<p>I am a female, GFG—I do get it. I was an athlete in college as well which is why I LOVE to see applications with Cross Country runners come across my desk. I also like to seek kid that were dishwashers in college, or work retail in the summer, etc. Those are the kids we hire.</p>
<p>Daughter is a freshman swimmer right now. A few of the senior swimmers have been doing med school interviews right now. I know one of them has been accepted everywhere she has interviewed so far. The comment she made to a bunch of us parents at meet a few weeks ago was that once the topic of her swimming came up the tone of the interview completely changed. She felt that the interviewers totally got it - the time committment the sport required, early morning practice, missing school for meets. If someone can maintain a high GPA while committed to swimming that is someone who can handle the time committment of medical school. Her sport has not hurt her at all, only helped. </p>
<p>D is a biology major who may be premed she is not sure right now. Doing well in swim, has an A in every class so far, loves her team. More than I could have hoped when I dropped her off three months ago!! Now if I can survive high school with her younger sisiter I will be good, lol.</p>
<p>This is a concern for me as well, and my D is only considering playing 1 sport at the D III level. The time involved will take away from her other opportunities during the sport season, but we have been told by the girls that they have more time when not in season to pursue other interests. My oldest (played a club sport) was able to have internships during her last 4 semesters of college, and I believe internships played a large role in her landing a job. If playing a sport, D will have to pursue internships during the summer, when there is more competition for them. Also, playing D III, I feel it would be easier for her to stop playing after a few years if it becomes too much for her.</p>
<p>On CC I’ve only read about the kids who can do it all, such as mamabear’s swimmers. I’d like some anecdotal information on what happens career-wise to those 3.0 to 3.2 GPA kids with a varsity sport. Many ads I see want 3.2 or 3.5 minimum.</p>
<p>I feel that D is kind of trapped. Her GPA is too low for a non-athlete, so quitting now doesn’t help her much. The damage has already been done and going forward there’d be no mitigating factor to explain the GPA if she quit. No employer is going to break it down by year to say “Oh, when she was running she got these grades, but they went up a lot when she stopped.” Also, a friend of mine in HR at a financial institution said dropping the sport after two years would raise a red flag in her mind. Strongly advised me to tell D to stick with the sport.</p>
<p>I hope in a year I can come back with good news that this all turned out OK.</p>
<p>GFG: Back in the Stone Age when I was in college (D III), I played baseball freshman & sophomore year. Once it dawned on me I wasn’t going to be the centerfielder for the NY Yankees I stopped playing and concentrated on graduating on time.</p>
<p>My GPA was fair when playing, but rose dramatically when I stopped. Since I had the extra time, I completed my required internship my Junior year. This lead to full-time work during the summer and a part-time paying job my entire Senior year. </p>
<p>GPA upon graduation was about 3.2. The internship and summer/part-time job senior year was the critical factor in my 1st employer hiring me as I had experience no other recent grad could offer.</p>
<p>Her major is econ, and yes she’s had several internships and two banking-related boot camps. As I mentioned in a previous post, she has worked full time every summer after freshman year in high school, and not in typical teen jobs either. She’s applying for anything that seems to fit her major and experience. </p>
<p>I am not “blaming” athletics. My D was a top student and talented athlete in high school, was recruited to all the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, Georgetown, etc., She made the decision to take advantage of the opportunity to compete for a school which regularly produces Olympians. That was her choice, and she knew there’d be sacrifices and costs to that. I just wanted to forewarn others of what happened to D, which is that she recently encountered several interviewers who seem completely clueless as to the time commitment required by Div. 1 athletics. I can understand if they’re not impressed by sports–no problem getting that point of view. But to suggest that in addition to elite school academics, being a 3-season athlete at a school ranked top 10 in the sport, and having a board position in another organization, employers still think she’s not doing enough, was a shock.</p>