<p>this is the most stupid arguement ever. jews are not a race or ethnicity. if you have even read ANY college application it says you can mark your ethnicity (black, white, azn, hispanic) NEVER does the term jewish come into play. So for those that fill in the term jewish in the "other" section of that area you are obviously trying to get in not based on your own merits what so eever. It shows you are A) desperate to get in and B) you don't know how over represented jews are (jews and azns make up approximately 44%) of the entire ivy league</p>
<p>I'm very, very afraid</p>
<p>But cows are cool!</p>
<p>Does this mean you're going to try to eat me?</p>
<p>I think that what everyone is metaphorically attempting to say, or to at least indicate in a ironic manner is the existing situation whereby a rich, or at least affluent, African American or American Indian or Hispanic/Latino has the advantage in the college selection process over a over-represented person or group of people who are sociologically disadvantaged by society but who are not part of a ironically favored under-represented segment of society who although not necessarily financially or socially disadvantaged, are still able to gain the advantage by reason of their race, specifically skin color. At least, that was obvious to me until that cow thing happened. At any rate, do whatever you have to do because the system is insane. I personally plan to embrace my Klingon heritage.</p>
<p>This entire conversation is unbelievable. I think the only thing that makes sense is "eat steak".</p>
<p>Seriously, Jewish is obviously both a religion and a ethnicity. It is not on the application because the categories shown on the form are the standard ones defined by the federal government. I don't know if I would agree that Jewish is a race, but race has been shown to have no basis in genetics, and so it doesn't really exist anyway. </p>
<p>I would go so far as to say that Protestant/Catholic is a kind of ethnicity. A person who was raised as a Protestant/Catholic is part of that culture even if they do not now believe in God. Culture defines an ethnicity. WASP=White Anglo Saxon Protestant. Surely WASP is an ethnic group.</p>
<p>What! WASP is not an ethnic group! Judaism is not an ethnicity! These are religions. Yes, please lets give all the WASPs admission because they've been so disadvantaged. Ethnicity refers to an ancestral region, and I'm sorry but Jews come from all over. I don't see how you could ever say that Judaism is an ethnicity. If you 'identify' yourself as culturally Jewish what does that mean?? At its core Judaism is a religion that demands involvement, not passivity.</p>
<p>I would go so far as to say that Protestant/Catholic is a kind of ethnicity. A person who was raised as a Protestant/Catholic is part of that culture even if they do not now believe in God.</p>
<p>I think it's a little different with Jews. Before the 20th century, the ethnic group and religious definition of "Jew" were pretty much one in the same because Jews didn't intermarry. When they began to intermarry or not follow faith, they still considered themselves Jews in the ethnic sense but not in the religious sense, especially in secular socities. </p>
<p>For example, in the Soviet Union and Russia, most people will say "Jew" when referring to the ethnic group, and "Religious Jew" when referring to the follower of Judiasm.</p>
<p>When I look at my dad's Russian passport, under "Ethnicity", it very plainly says "Jewish".</p>
<p>
[Quote]
When they began to intermarry or not follow faith, they still considered themselves Jews in the ethnic sense but not in the religious sense, especially in secular socities.
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</p>
<p>Just because somebody 'considers' themself Jewish doesn't necessarily make them Jewish. Can I consider myself black? No! I couldn't be more white. According to Jewish law you are not considered Jewish unless your mother is Jewish. So what does 'considering yourself Jewish mean". So it has not genetic basis, probably no religous actions, so what does it even mean??</p>
<p>do they even ask for religion on the apps...i didnt think they did...i guess it would really only make a diff if u r reaaallly involved in ur religion, like ur a second moses or sumthing</p>
<p>Just because somebody 'considers' themself Jewish doesn't necessarily make them Jewish.</p>
<p>It does make him a person of Jewish ethnicity, but not a follower of Judaism.</p>
<p>* Can I consider myself black? No! I couldn't be more white.*</p>
<p>Yes, but a person who is a Jew can consider himself a Jew, because ethnically, he is one. When you say you are white, it is generally a broader term that represents an ethnic group. </p>
<p>* According to Jewish law you are not considered Jewish unless your mother is Jewish. So what does 'considering yourself Jewish mean".*</p>
<p>Again, this is according to Judaism's view on being Jewish, not a plainly ethnic definition.</p>
<p>Anyway, I'd just like to say I'm not well versed on the issue, and I probably can't make an argument for everything, my dad (who is a secular Jew) is a much bigger expert on this so I'll need to talk to him.</p>
<p>You guys are getting really defensive or something. I didn't say that Jews or WASP's or other ethnic groups were URM's. I'm just giving the definition of "ethnic". The following is from Webster's online dictionary at:
<a href="http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=ethnic%5B/url%5D">http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=ethnic</a></p>
<p>"of or relating to large groups of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background"</p>
<p>If anyone wants to discuss whether or not Jews or the French are ethnic groups, please re-read the above. Careful, it might be an SAT word. What is the point you people are trying to make, you have to be black to be ethnic?</p>
<p>Well, while I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I am a modern orthodox Jew and it is a huge part of my life. Judaism is a religion and it always has been. What do you mean when you say ethnically Jewish? That some member of your family way back there was a Jew? That works for races, not for religions. So if I have a Catholic somewhere in my family then I am ethnically Catholic? NO.</p>
<p>What cool2bars just said is an example of where being Jewish CAN be advantageous in college admissions. When a religion is part of a life and opens up oppurtunities for passion, dedication, study, etc., you have a solid EC on your hands</p>
<p>I hate to tell you but the definition of ethnicity in the dictionary and the definition of ethnicity to adcoms is quite different.</p>
<p>If someone is an American Indian/African American/Hispanic because they have one great-grandparent from that group, then maybe something is wrong. Affirmative Action should be based on socioeconomic status, not on skin color. Why should a rich black from a private school have an admissions advantage over a poor white with alcoholic parents. However, the political groups that lobby for the the different minority groups are not setup to help poor people. They are oriented towards skin color because that is the way people vote.</p>
<p>cool2bars: I don't think that adcoms don't understand the meaning of the word "ethnic". The words they use are minorities, URM's, and race.</p>
<p>Race does not scientifically exist, and is no longer used in scientific circles. When medicine began doing organ transplants, there was an interest in finding matching donors so that organs would not be rejected. At first, doctors would search within a certain race so that if the patient was African American, they would look for an African American donor. By this process, it was found that a possible donor was statistically as likely to be a white Swede as a black Ethiopian. By further genetic studies, it was determined that it was impossible to recognize race as a genetic concept. Ethnic groups exist and some are designated as minorities. In order to help "races" that were at a social disadvantage, affirmative action was invented. We all know why affirmative action is fair, and we all know why affirmative action is unfair. In specific cases such as an affluent black competing with a poor white with alcoholic parents, it is a travesty. On average, however, it is probably for the greater good.</p>
<p>Hey,
yes being jewish is a religion..but also a race. Umm..i dunno if it will neccesarily help..but i <3 being jewish (russian jewish female)...propz to u bro!</p>
<p>Whether or not race scientifically exists is not at issue here. Race or ethnicity or whatever you want to call it does exist to adcoms whether you like it or not.</p>
<p>Well, while I wouldn't consider myself an expert, I am a modern orthodox Jew and it is a huge part of my life. Judaism is a religion and it always has been. What do you mean when you say ethnically Jewish? That some member of your family way back there was a Jew? That works for races, not for religions. So if I have a Catholic somewhere in my family then I am ethnically Catholic? NO.</p>
<p>Alright, I think this is the explanation that I can best come up with. I don't guarantee it is accurate, but it's the best that I can do.</p>
<p>The abimguity of the term comes from the fact that "Jew" refers to two different things. An ethnic group, and a follower of a religion. Catholic only refers to one thing. A follower of a religion.</p>
<p>Now, since you know a little more history, maybe you can fill me in on this, because this is what I know little about. From what I understand, Jews are decendents of an early people from the Middle East. And basically from this, the Jewish "ethnicity' came about. However, unlike many other ethnicities, this ethnicity was very closely tied into a religion. Anyone born into this ethnic group was automatically part of the religion. However, modern secular Jews still identified with the ethnic group "Jew" for cultural reasons, but not at all in the religion. Maybe this is a regional thing, but in secular places like the Soviet Union, if someone told you they were "half Russian-half Jewish", there was nothing strange about that.</p>
<p>I came up with this very weak example, and you can tell me the things that don't make sense. Imagine the word "Arab" suddenly was the word "Muslim". So all people of the ethnicity "Arab" were now called "Muslims" (just imagine this as an example. So, the Arabian Peninsula, in early times, began to be settled by an ethnic group called the Mulsims. In early history, a man named Mohammed created a new religion called Islam, and began to spread it through Arabia. All of the Muslims in Arabia adopted the religion, and adopters of the religion were also known by the term "Muslim". Mohammed created the rule that to truly be a "Muslim", you had to be born via matrilineal descent. Throughout history, all the people in that area followed the religion.</p>
<p>Now, fast foward to the future. Some Muslim men began to leave the religion. They stopped following all of the rules of the religion, had children with non-Muslims, etc. However, they still considered themselves to be the ethnic people of Arabia known as the "Muslims", because they had a culture and history of living in Arabia, just not the "Mulsims" in the religious sense that followed the rules of Islam, because they did not believe in Islam. In that case, the term would have a dual use. "Muslim", as in someone descended from the people of Arabia, or "Muslim", as a follower of Islam.</p>
<p>I'm sure there are tons of thing about my above example that are wrong, but I'm curious about sorting this out, so maybe you can help.</p>