Is berkeley really that prestigious in Asia???????????

[sakky]

<p>

Twenty years ago Berkeley was ranked around number 7 in the nation while Stanford was far below. Stanford and U Penn are the two “newcomers” in the top 10.

</p>

<p>Really? Does anybody have the old rankings that show that Stanford was ranked “far below” Berkeley or was otherwise not in the top 10? </p>

<p>

It is really with the Silicon Valley boom that Stanford did well for itself.

</p>

<p>Well, it is actually more accurate to say that Stanford created the Silicon Valley boom. Let’s face it. Stanford is intimately tied to the Silicon Valley culture and fostered the development of the world’s greatest tech entrepreneurship machine. The seeds of SV were sown at the Stanford Research Park. </p>

<p>Hence, it’s not just a matter of Stanford just happening to be lucky in being around when SV was created. Stanford created its own luck. I have always wondered why Berkeley - with its significant headstart - couldn’t have done that? Berkeley had already won 6 Nobels before Stanford had even won one.</p>

[kyledavid80]

<p>

The fact is the average student at Stanford is smarter than the average student at Berkeley.

</p>

<p>And the average Harvard student is smarter than the average Stanford student, right? (Does it even matter? Why is Stanford even being brought up in this discussion?)</p>

<p>

just because this is true doesn’t mean that Stanford kids are “more arrogant” than Berkeley kids.

</p>

<p>Nobody is arguing that. What is being argued is that many students at Stanford are arrogant. Many of the students at Berkeley are arrogant. Many of the students at Harvard are arrogant. You see the pattern.</p>

<p>And vc08 doesn’t like that quality about Stanford, which she feels is more prevalent than at schools like UVA, Notre Dame, etc.</p>

<p>

We’re just as relatively arrogant about being better than lower ranked UCs.

</p>

<p>You can speak for yourself there. (Again, broad, sweeping claims that have no evidence or support…)</p>

<p>

to get overly irritated by someone who simply said that he wished that he at least applied to Stanford to see if he could get in a few years back?

</p>

<p>…or someone who disdains an entire subset of a student body, and compares them to students at a tier-3 state school (which is asinine to those students, too)?</p>

[patlees88]

<p>"Nobody is arguing that. What is being argued is that many students at Stanford are arrogant. Many of the students at Berkeley are arrogant. Many of the students at Harvard are arrogant. You see the pattern.</p>

<p>And vc08 doesn’t like that quality about Stanford, which she feels is more prevalent than at schools like UVA, Notre Dame, etc."</p>

<p>If this person, vc08, is truly basing his or her college destination on the pretentiousness of the general student body, then this person is making a big mistake by considering UVA and Notre Dame also. If I am not mistaken, UVA and Notre Dame are both very prestigious schools and I am sure these schools, just like Stanford, would have a fair share of students that are pretentious as well. If this person is really worried about this “pretentious” aspect of the student body at a certain university, this person would not have applied to these top ranked schools. Thus, this person’s argument that he or she did not consider applying to Stanford bc of it being snobby and pretentious is not valid. Rather, there seems to have been other motives or factors that prevented her from applying to Stanford, I believe. (maybe he/she knew that he/she is not Stanford material, etc.)</p>

[vc08]

<p>

If this person, vc08, is truly basing his or her college destination on the pretentiousness of the general student body, then this person is making a big mistake by considering UVA and Notre Dame also. If I am not mistaken, UVA and Notre Dame are both very prestigious schools and I am sure these schools, just like Stanford, would have a fair share of students that are pretentious as well. If this person is really worried about this “pretentious” aspect of the student body at a certain university, this person would not have applied to these top ranked schools.

</p>

<p>Have you actually been to these schools? Or are you just rambling on and on? I’ve visited all three schools, and I find the pretentiousness of the student body at Stanford more prevalent than at many other schools in the country. Is any school perfect? No, of course not. Does Stanford have many, many strengths? Yes, of course it does. It isn’t Stanford for nothing. It’s okay to have a flaw! Stanford is still an excellent university, one I have great respect for. No one is perfect, and despite what you may think, no school is perfect. </p>

<p>

rather, there seems to have been other motives or factors that prevented her from applying to Stanford, I believe. (maybe he/she knew that he/she is not Stanford material, etc.)

Or…it could just be, like I stated 100 times, that I don’t like the atmosphere at Stanford. I received a likely letter from UVA, which they only send to 150 or so applicants per year (out of 18,500 applications) based on stellar academic and EC achievement. The last thing I’m worried about is being “Stanford material.” Please…grow up. The world actually does extend beyond Stanford and the Ivy League, believe it or not.</p>

<p>I thank those of you who are trying to enforce your will upon me as far as college decisions are concerned. If I need your help, be assured I will ask it. You got to choose your school, let me choose mine.</p>

[learnmestuff]

<p>

Also, find an example where Godfrey said that Cal degree doesn’t carry any weight

</p>

<p>

Coming here doesn’t mean as much as outsiders think.

^well look at that. An example!</p>

<p>

And, I think that you are the one that sounds bitter to me

Then that’s your misinterpretation problem, don’t blame it on her. Honestly, what would she have to be bitter about? If she wanted to apply to Stanford, she would have. It’s her decision, and she’s happy about it. I, for one, also don’t like the general attitude at Stanford. SO WHAT? Life goes on, spring is still in the air. </p>

<p>

Knowing relatives who attend certain schools is different from attending the school

Perhaps, unless you have basically lived at one school, as I have with Stanford. And I will assure you that vc’s depiction of the school is much closer to reality than yours. Will some students disagree? Probably. But from my personal experience, I find her interpretation to be pretty accurate.</p>

<p>

Rather, there seems to have been other motives or factors that prevented her from applying to Stanford, I believe. (maybe he/she knew that he/she is not Stanford material, etc.)

Give it up man, you’re weak. If that’s the case, why did you end up at “lowly” Cornell. Musta been afraid of that HYP rejection. She just doesn’t want to apply to Stanford. Isn’t college about finding the right “fit” anyway? Or have you resorted to believing that it’s all about the name?</p>

[patlees88]

<p>vc:</p>

<p>“It isn’t Stanford for nothing. It’s okay to have a flaw! Stanford is still an excellent university, one I have great respect for. No one is perfect, and despite what you may think, no school is perfect.”</p>

<p>What are you saying here? I did not say that any school, or Stanford in this discussion, is “perfect”. Stop bringing up false accusations against others on the thread without any concrete evidence. </p>

<p>"Please…grow up. The world actually does extend beyond Stanford and the Ivy League, believe it or not.</p>

<p>I thank those of you who are trying to enforce your will upon me as far as college decisions are concerned. If I need your help, be assured I will ask it. You got to choose your school, let me choose mine."</p>

<p>Again, you are making up false accusations here. I never was “enforcing” my will upon you regarding college selection. I was merely pointing out to a flaw in your argument. And, I never said that Stanford or the Ivy League are everything. I noted on my last post how “prestigious” both UVA and Notre Dame are. As a note, much of your argument here for accusing either Godfrey or me has been nonsense without any evidence or support. So, I think you are the one that needs to grow up, not me. </p>

<p>learnmestuff:</p>

<p>"Also, find an example where Godfrey said that Cal degree doesn’t carry any weight </p>

<p>Quote:
Coming here doesn’t mean as much as outsiders think. </p>

<p>^well look at that. An example!"</p>

<p>If you really understood Godfrey’s statement “Coming here doesn’t mean as much as outsiders think” as equal in meaning to vc08’s accusation against Godfrey “Cal’s degree doesn’t carry any weight”, then I have much fear for your potential to survive the rigor of the college education. </p>

<p>“Give it up man, you’re weak. If that’s the case, why did you end up at “lowly” Cornell. Musta been afraid of that HYP rejection.”</p>

<p>I was not afraid of that HYP rejection. I actually applied to all these schools my senior year h.s., but, unfortunately, was rejected. So, what’s your point here? And, it is your personal bias to believe that Cornell is a “lowly” school. If you believe that is the case, so be it. But, it does not serve the argument nor the purpose of this thread. So, if you wanna bash Cornell, then do it somewhere else. </p>

<p>“She just doesn’t want to apply to Stanford. Isn’t college about finding the right “fit” anyway? Or have you resorted to believing that it’s all about the name?”</p>

<p>I never said that she should apply to Stanford. I merely pointed out a flaw with her argument which attempted to justify not applying to Stanford yet applying to Notre Dame or UVA in the first place. Also, when did I say that college is all about the name? I highly recommend that you stay away from falsely accusing others on an on-line forum without any evidence or reasons. Finally, it is not me that wanted to get involved in this pointless argument w/ vc08. vc08 was the first one to accuse Godfrey without much reason or evidence for doing so.</p>

[liquidmetal]

<p>^^Don’t Bash vc08 so much</p>

<p>VC08 is right about a lot of stuff. Cal is a great place for those with the positive, proactive mentality that it seems that VC08 has. No need to bash a high schooler who makes fairly logical claims. </p>

<p>I also disagree with a lot of Godfrey’s claims though. For example: If Godfrey was smarter than most people at Cal (I got this implication from his posts) then he should be happy because doing well at Cal gives you so many opportunities. The only reason that Godfrey would not be happy is if he thinks he is smarter than other people at Cal (presumably because of his HS stats, which seem quite good given his desire to have applied to the top tier schools) and yet manages to graduate in a mediocre fashion. Godfrey could attribute this to Cal’s large class sizes, but I would attribute it more to cockiness or Godfrey’s lack of intellect relative to others. Some of the smartest people in my CS classes were lucky to have gotten admission to Cal!</p>

<p>I hope Godfrey does well and I also agree with many of Godfrey’s claims. However, Godfrey is a poster child for the “grass is always greener” cliche! </p>

<p>I will say this in closing, because this applies to me and several others that I know: If you believe that you are “better” than Cal, yet were only offered admission to Cal, the only way to show it is to succeed at Cal. If you don’t succeed at Cal it is unreasonable to blame the learning style at Cal, whether or not it suits you. Thats my advice as a Sophomore in EECS and a regents scholar.</p>

[learnmestuff]

<p>

Finally, it is not me that wanted to get involved in this pointless argument w/ vc08. vc08 was the first one to accuse Godfrey without much reason or evidence for doing so.

If you’re serious, my impression of you just sunk a few points. I can’t believe you’re that blind, not one person on here besides you and Godfry actually believe that.</p>

<p>

I will say this in closing, because this applies to me and several others that I know: If you believe that you are “better” than Cal, yet were only offered admission to Cal, the only way to show it is to succeed at Cal.

That is definitely true. Well said.</p>

[patlees88]

<p>“If you’re serious, my impression of you just sunk a few points. I can’t believe you’re that blind, not one person on here besides you and Godfry actually believe that.”</p>

<p>Look thru the thread and see for yourself. (hint: post #103,107,118)</p>

<p>You can’t believe that that I am “that” blind?!? Well, then let me say that I can’t believe you’re that big of an idiot to assert that “Coming here doesn’t mean as much as what outsiders think” has same meaning as “Cal degree doesn’t carry any weight”.</p>

[Godfrey]

<p>First of all, I’d like to ask you how you know vc08 is a female? Most people who refer to others they don’t know refer to them as males. Are you guys friends or something? Weird…</p>

<p>

Nobody is arguing that. What is being argued is that many students at Stanford are arrogant. Many of the students at Berkeley are arrogant. Many of the students at Harvard are arrogant. You see the pattern.</p>

<p>And vc08 doesn’t like that quality about Stanford, which she feels is more prevalent than at schools like UVA, Notre Dame, etc.

</p>

<p>This doesn’t even make sense. So if vc08 isn’t applying to Stanford because she feels that Stanford students are arrogant and “pretentious”, yet she’s applying to these other schools that are also “pretentious”, then that’s not really the reason why she’s not applying to Stanford. And how exactly does she measure pretentiousness anyway? By the quality of the students? So maybe because Stanford students are smarter they are automatically “pretentious”?</p>

<p>

^well look at that. An example!

</p>

<p>Learn how to read properly. You have heard of extrapolations, right? You are falsely extrapolating a conclusion from my statement. I said that “coming here doesn’t mean as much as outsiders think.” This implies 1) That outsiders do value this education, and hence it is prestigious 2) that there is value, just an exaggerated and falsified value. I really question your abilities to comprehend material. Just because this value is exaggerated does not mean it does not exist.</p>

<p>Also why are you resorting to ad hominem attacks and insulting Cornell? Despite your facetious facade and rhetoric, you are still implying that Cornell is “lowly”.. Actually, Cornell is more competitive to get into than Berkeley (in-state admission). So why are you bashing Cornell now?</p>

<p>

I also disagree with a lot of Godfrey’s claims though. For example: If Godfrey was smarter than most people at Cal (I got this implication from his posts) then he should be happy because doing well at Cal gives you so many opportunities. The only reason that Godfrey would not be happy is if he thinks he is smarter than other people at Cal (presumably because of his HS stats, which seem quite good given his desire to have applied to the top tier schools) and yet manages to graduate in a mediocre fashion. Godfrey could attribute this to Cal’s large class sizes, but I would attribute it more to cockiness or Godfrey’s lack of intellect relative to others. Some of the smartest people in my CS classes were lucky to have gotten admission to Cal!

</p>

<p>There are many people smarter than me here, but a lot of people here are tier 3 material. This is fact. This is especially true with transfer students. I’ve met people who were admitted with 1000 SATs.</p>

<p>Also if you want to resort to ad hominem attacks (again), at least know the facts. I am by no means the school valedictorian, but my GPA is a 3.8 and I am graduating with honors with Haas/Econ double. It’s obviously far from stellar or # 1 material, but I didn’t “fail” either. I did slack sometimes in my classes, but that’s my own fault. I’m saying though that there are people here who fail classes repeatedly…</p>

[learnmestuff]

<p>

You can’t believe that that I am “that” blind?!? Well, then let me say that I can’t believe you’re that big of an idiot to assert that “Coming here doesn’t mean as much as what outsiders think” has same meaning as “Cal degree doesn’t carry any weight”.

you’re amusing. Thanks for making everyone else on here look really good.</p>

<p>

First of all, I’d like to ask you how you know vc08 is a female? Are you guys friends or something?

Nope, we’ve seen other threads from other forums. Imagine that, we actually read before we assume.</p>

<p>

Also why are you resorting to ad hominem attacks and insulting Cornell? Despite your facetious facade and rhetoric, you are still implying that Cornell is “lowly”.. Actually, Cornell is more competitive to get into than Berkeley (in-state admission). So why are you bashing Cornell now?

It’s called sarcasm. Why are you kissing pat’s a**? Are you friends or something? </p>

<p>

There are many people smarter than me here, but a lot of people here are tier 3 material.

There’s a guy on the Stanford forum admitted EA with a 1700 SAT. </p>

<p>

I did slack sometimes in my classes, but that’s my own fault. I’m saying though that there are people here who fail classes repeatedly…

And they will pay for it, rest assured. Stop worrying about other people.</p>

[Godfrey]

<p>

I will say this in closing, because this applies to me and several others that I know: If you believe that you are “better” than Cal, yet were only offered admission to Cal, the only way to show it is to succeed at Cal. If you don’t succeed at Cal it is unreasonable to blame the learning style at Cal, whether or not it suits you. Thats my advice as a Sophomore in EECS and a regents scholar.

</p>

<p>Is this supposed to make me value your opinion more? That you’re a second year in EECS and a regents scholar? Since engineers are oh so smart, you should realize that there are smart people here and a subset of the population that are questionable academically. Berkeley undergrad is not as competitive to get into as the Ivies or MIT. We aren’t on average as smart as Stanford students…what’s so hard to swallow about that? Also, people should apply to as high as they can and see where they can go…why not? Is that so hard to accept?</p>

[Godfrey]

<p>

Nope, we’ve seen other threads from other forums. Imagine that, we actually read before we assume.

</p>

<p>Wow, glad you made an internet friend. I’m really happy for you. I’m sorry that I don’t read everyone else’s posts in other threads for fun. </p>

<p>

There’s a guy on the Stanford forum admitted EA with a 1700 SAT.

</p>

<p>Stanford is more selective than Berkeley. I’m sure that this happens at every school, but more often at Berkeley… our undergraduate population has lower caliber than Stanford’s. Here goes the inferiority complex again…repeat after me. STANFORD IS BETTER THAN CAL FOR UNDERGRAD.</p>

[vc08]

<p>

So if vc08 isn’t applying to Stanford because she feels that Stanford students are arrogant and “pretentious”, yet she’s applying to these other schools that are also “pretentious”, then that’s not really the reason why she’s not applying to Stanford. And how exactly does she measure pretentiousness anyway? By the quality of the students? So maybe because Stanford students are smarter they are automatically “pretentious”?

</p>

<p>Wow, you seriously need to read more thoroughly. Ok, for the last time: I did not apply to Stanford because I did not like the overall feeling of the student body. I visited the other schools, and loved them. I’m Irish Catholic, and very into my church. Therefore, ND is the perfect fit for me. I loved UVA’s campus, and having a founding father (Jefferson) as the founding father of your university is a very unique and compelling aspect of the school. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. HA. at your notion that I measure pretentiousness by intellect. That doesn’t even merit a response. Is it ok to say I just didn’t apply to Stanford because I didn’t (generally speaking) like the students? Or would you like me to add that I think the mascot is pathetic? Perhaps you find that reason much more valid. Seriously, get over your superiority complex. You aren’t my counselor. You aren’t my parent, my brother, my sister. What you say has absolutely no impact on what school I do or don’t choose. People like you, who are supporting Stanford tooth and nail, just increase my distaste, and further my point. If I need your advise, I will PM you. Thank you for your concern, I’m sure I’ll manage quite alright.</p>

[Godfrey]

<p>

It’s called sarcasm. Why are you kissing pat’s a**? Are you friends or something?

</p>

<p>Sarcasm or not, still ad hominem. I am merely stating the fact that Cornell is more selective than Cal (in-state). </p>

<p>This school pride is blinding you.</p>

[Godfrey]

<p>

Wow, you seriously need to read more thoroughly. Ok, for the last time: I did not apply to Stanford because I did not like the overall feeling of the student body. I visited the other schools, and loved them. I’m Irish Catholic, and very into my church. Therefore, ND is the perfect fit for me. I loved UVA’s campus, and having a founding father (Jefferson) as the founding father of your university is a very unique and compelling aspect of the school. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. HA. at your notion that I measure pretentiousness by intellect. That doesn’t even merit a response. Is it ok to say I just didn’t apply to Stanford because I didn’t (generally speaking) like the students? Or would you like me to add that I think the mascot is pathetic? Perhaps you find that reason much more valid. Seriously, get over your superiority complex. You aren’t my counselor. You aren’t my parent, my brother, my sister. What you say has absolutely no impact on what school I do or don’t choose. People like you, who are supporting Stanford tooth and nail, just increase my distaste, and further my point. If I need your advise, I will PM you. Thank you for your concern, I’m sure I’ll manage quite alright.

</p>

<p>Right…because Stanford students are all similar and somehow as a group more pretentious than everyone else…right. So why didn’t apply to Harvard or Yale then? Or did you somehow visit them and find that the students were “pretentious” too…</p>

<p>I don’t really care what school you choose. Get over yourself. The point of this thread is not to advise you on picking a school. We could care less about where you go. We are now merely arguing over Berkeley undergrad (vs Stanford, etc.).</p>

[patlees88]

<p>“It’s called sarcasm. Why are you kissing pat’s a**? Are you friends or something?”</p>

<p>Since most of your points conveyed through your posts are illogical or rather idiotic by standards of many, how are we to know that you were being sarcastic at one point and being serious other times? </p>

<p>“you’re amusing. Thanks for making everyone else on here look really good.”</p>

<p>You are really quite an idiot…</p>

[vc08]

<p>

We aren’t on average as smart as Stanford students…what’s so hard to swallow about that? Also, people should apply to as high as they can and see where they can go…why not? Is that so hard to accept?

That’s your opinion. People should challenge themselves, but not everyone would choose HYP over UCB, UCLA, UM, etc. Some people just don’t want to go to those schools for whatever reason–they’re too small, they don’t have big enough sports, they don’t have a specific major, the weather is poor, etc. Is that so hard to accept? </p>

<p>

Wow, glad you made an internet friend. I’m really happy for you. I’m sorry that I don’t read everyone else’s posts in other threads for fun.

Yup, just got owned and won’t live up to it. Didn’t think so.</p>

<p>

Repeat after me. STANFORD IS BETTER THAN CAL FOR UNDERGRAD.

repeat after me: NOBODY CARES!!!</p>

<p>

You are really quite an idiot…

Well, I’m glad you’re not the only one!</p>

<p>

The point of this thread is not to advise you on picking a school. We could care less about where you go.

THEN WHY THE FRICK DO YOU KEEP ASKING ME WHY I DIDN’T APPLY TO STANFORD, YALE, MIT, HARVARD, PRINCETON, DARTMOUTH, CORNELL, COLUMBIA, AND PRETTY SOON, OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE???</p>

<p>

So why didn’t apply to Harvard or Yale then? Or did you somehow visit them and find that the students were “pretentious” too…

Yup, pretty much.</p>

[system]

<p>learnmestuff <– owned</p>

<p>lmao</p>

[Godfrey]

<p>

That’s your opinion. People should challenge themselves, but not everyone would choose HYP over UCB, UCLA, UM, etc. Some people just don’t want to go to those schools for whatever reason–they’re too small, they don’t have big enough sports, they don’t have a specific major, the weather is poor, etc. Is that so hard to accept?

</p>

<p>It is hard to accept when you are criticizing others for wishing they had applied to HYS. You didn’t apply because you (supposedly mind you) thought HYS students were “pretentious” whereas I didn’t apply because I self-selected and didn’t think I would get in…different reasons, so why the critique?</p>