<p>@jboeding1 </p>
<p>lol you created an account to post on a 4 year old thread…good luck with that.</p>
<p>I think Cal is slightly harder than UCLA. Comparing my classmates that were accepted to UCLA and those accepted to Cal, the latter ones are smarter by a smidge. My friend who was the valedictorian and regents scholar at UCLA says it is indeed hard. So yes, Cal is harder but only by a little. </p>
<p>@randombookie </p>
<p>I don’t know about that. I can’t imagine <em>why</em> Berkeley would be harder than UCLA, especially since there are few, if any students who’ve actually attended both schools and can compare the rigor of the two. I think it’s best to assume that the rigor of the schools is about the same. I doubt, for example, that if you couldn’t cut it in Berkeley’s mechanical engineering program, you might have an easier time in UCLA’s mechanical engineering program. Or history, philosophy, and political science. </p>
<p>I’ve heard that the “really smart” students go to Berkeley, but I’m also not sure of that, really. One has to take into consideration the possibility that the social environment that surrounds Berkeley might be responsible for attracting those students who <em>may come off</em> as more intelligent, but in regards to the relevant academic factors, such as GPA, SAT scores, or, in our case as transfers, pre-reqs completed, the kinds of people who apply to and get into UCLA are the ones who are also getting into Berkeley, and vice versa. I will admit, though, that the GPA for admitted transfers to Berkeley is somewhat higher than that for UCLA, but I don’t think that completely refutes my point. And there are definitely lots of smart students who were accepted to both schools and chose UCLA over Berkeley.</p>
<p>I met a few people at UCLA’s transfer orientation who were, in my opinion, very smart. Smarter than me, it seemed. I don’t think there’s a shortage of smart people in comparison to Berkeley, but I admit that I am biased, so you can take what I say with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>Id say they are about the same, with some majors being harder at one school then the other and vice versa… It’s hard to compare coursework because of the quarter vs semester system. One school might seem harder but it’s because of the curves. I will say UCLA has a lot more not so generous curves, then I have at Berkeley. People at UCLA might tend to have higher GPAs because they can recover after a bad quarter (you can wash out a bad quarter with two more instead of one semester). </p>
<p>I think that you should welcome the challenge: the harder you have to work for success in school, the easier things will seem in the working world.</p>
<p>Also, harder classes might mean a better education per se. And that in itself will be worth the effort.</p>
<p>I think I would have to side with UCB being a bit harder only because it has a super-intense research vibe going on in many disciplines, often at the expense of a more rounded individual. I don’t think it has to do with the overall intelligence of UCLA vs UCB students, but there is probably a bit more likelihood of the introverted brainiac choosing UCB over UCLA. That said, the E.Q. factor (emotional quotient) that determines a lot of career success is probably a smidge higher at UCLA.</p>
<p>I might add that one of my UCB English professors, Hugh Richmond, who I just reconnected with on FB (!!) says he thinks UCLA and UCB are the same. (But maybe he was just being nice…)</p>
<p>@lindyk8, you make an excellent point that the “introverted brainiac” does seem to choose UCB over UCLA.
@Cayton, yeah I see where you’re coming from too! But, I really do think that UCB’s engineering program is way more tough than UCLA’s, just by judging the rankings and renown of UCB’s enginerring program. However, if a student can’t handle engineering at UCB, he/she probs can’t handle UCLA either.</p>
<p>The ones getting into UCLA though are not getting into Cal all the time. Those who got into Cal, however, almost always have been accepted to UCLA. </p>
<p>@randombookie </p>
<p>Eh, call me stubborn, but I just don’t think the curves in UC Berkeley’s engineering classes can be shown to be harsher than UCLA’s engineering class curves. UC Berkeley’s graduate programs don’t really reflect on the rigor of their undergraduate programs. The same can be said for any university in America.</p>
<p>And you’d be surprised at how many people at the freshman and transfer level get accepted into Berkeley and rejected by UCLA. At the freshman level, UCLA and Berkeley have identical average admitted GPAs, 3.89 unweighted and 4.39 weighted. Historically, average admitted UCLA SAT scores were a little lower than Berkeley’s, but are now identical to theirs. Admissions rates at the freshman level are extremely similar, and frequently, UCLA is more selective than Berkeley, but only by small margin. A freshman applicant simply can’t count on getting into UCLA if they got into Berkeley, or vice versa, for that matter.</p>
<p>At the transfer level, UCLA is a little bit easier to get into, and average admitted GPAs for accepted applicants is somewhat lower than for those who got accepted into Berkeley. This year, it was 3.69 for accepted UCLA applicants and 3.77 for accepted Berkeley students(Last year, it was 3.72 for UCLA. It dropped for some reason, even as the average GPA of UCLA applicants increased). You could predict with some accuracy whether you’ll get into UCLA based on how competitive you are for Berkeley as a transfer, but I doubt there are few people who were accepted to Berkeley and rejected by UCLA.</p>
<p>When comparing the two, most of the majors at Berkeley may be harder. The environment is very, very different than I initially expected. Also, I can imagine engineering at Cal being much more rigorous, </p>
<p>@Ocnative Has Cal roughed you up? How are things going so far?</p>
<p>@ocnative </p>
<p>How so? And how has the environment there challenged your expectations?</p>
<p>I think it completely depends on the major. I think overall they’re pretty much the same, but certain majors at each school may be much harder than at the other. I don’t think philosophy would be much harder at either school, although I think they have far different approaches. If anything you should make your decision based on which approach suits you best. However, you may not even have a decision to make, as there is a good chance you will be accepted at one and not the other. So I would wait until you are accepted to get too attached to either.</p>
<p>@music1990 </p>
<p>Funny that you should mention philosophy. I did some research on Berkeley and LA"s philosophy programs and found that students in both programs state that it’s pretty difficult.</p>
<p>Berkeley’s known for not giving out A’s in philosophy classes, they say. With UCLA, A’s are hard to get. You’re screwed at either school, lol</p>
<p>It’s all in the mind…</p>
<p>@Cayton I think the same can be said about UCLA. When I went to UCLA’s APP day, I spoke with a philosophy major and he told me that there were classes that have not given out an A in years.</p>
<p>@CollegeDropout1 </p>
<p>:(</p>
<p>@Cayton </p>
<p>I only mentioned philosophy because the OP said that’s his major. But I was guessing you had done a lot of research on both programs. I have heard people complain about Berkeley’s program and say that it is all about memorizing ancient philosophers’ teachings, and doesn’t concern coming up with new ideas. But I don’t really know much about philosophy in general so maybe that’s just how it is. Either way, I think a lot of it depends on what professors and GSIs you get. I recently just found out that GSIs grade pretty much all work in the classes I’m taking, which blows my mind.</p>
<p>@music1990 </p>
<p>Ah, that may be the case at Berkeley, but I’ll definitely have to do a lot of that at UCLA, too.</p>
<p>Typically, philosophy programs will have you learn about the ideas put forth by Western philosophers over the past 2,500 years, from the ancient Greeks all the way until at least the 19th century or so, and perhaps even to the 20th. </p>
<p>You’ll also have to evaluate these ideas in argumentative essays and explain why you agree or disagree with them or partially agree or partially disagree, and why.</p>
<p>You may also have to apply their ideas to novel situations and contemporary issues that these philosophers didn’t know about, such as the ethics of stem-cell research or the metaphysical nature of the universe as scientists know it today…or something, lol.</p>
<p>I obviously haven’t taken Berkeley’s philosophy classes, but I doubt that memorization is all they did. If so, it wouldn’t be too difficult to get A’s in those classes. As abstract as philosophy can be, one can understand it well enough if they just keep studying it(If you make any friends who major in philosophy at Berkeley, ask them what their homework is. They’ll probably tell you that they have to read like 30 pages of philosophy that’s almost impossible to understand and has to be reread several times). It’s the writing that’s most difficult in my opinion, though, and I’m certain that the writing standards in Berkeley philosophy are very high.</p>
<p>Yeah, GSIs do most of the work when it comes to your grades in your classes at UCs, unless you’re in one of those seminar-type classes with 20 students. Then, the professor will be doing the grading in all likelihood.</p>
<p>How are you liking Berkeley so far? Are you feeling overwhelmed by your classes yet? :P</p>
<p>UCB also has a rhetoric dept and UCLA doesn’t, so UCB probably has to alter their philosophy dept in part, I suppose, to accommodate rhetoric, while UCLA can overlap the disciplines more easily. </p>
<p>How’s the mighty Wheeler @music1990?</p>
<p>@Cayton</p>
<p>Oh yeah, that makes sense. I might even take a philosophy class myself if I get a chance.</p>
<p>I really like Berkeley so far. My classes and professors are great. I don’t feel too overwhelmed yet, although I suspect that will change at some point. Luckily I’m only taking 13 units. I do have a lot of reading to do everyday, but that’s not so bad since I read a lot anyway. It’s a lot better than having to memorize formulas or something. Also it’s nice not having busy work or anything like that. Most of my classes pretty much just have two essays, and two exams, and that’s it.</p>
<p>Also, people are much friendlier at Berkeley than I expected. The reputation it has for being antisocial seems to be somewhat exaggerated. It is kind of difficult being a transfer, because everyone already has their groups of friends, which can be a little bit isolating, but that’s kind of inevitable I think. I have made some friends (well kind of) in my apartment complex, and I get along with my roommates, which is nice. I haven’t joined any clubs or anything yet, because I want to make sure I can handle the schoolwork first before I commit to anything, but hopefully I will meet some people that way too.</p>
<p>Sorry that was kind of all over the place. When are you moving in to UCLA? Do you know who your roommates will be yet?</p>
<p>@lindyk8 </p>
<p>Wheeler as in the building? Perhaps this reference is lost on me lol. I don’t actually have any classes in that building, although I have been there to speak to the counselor.</p>