<p>I have a friend who's interested in applying as a Food Science major to CALS. She, IMHO at least, is under qualified for admission to Cornell (1870 SAT, not taking the most rigorous course load, no significant ECs). I have been gently trying to tell her that she shouldn't get her hopes up, but she is telling me that the standards for CALS are lower so she stands a chance. So my question is, are her stats semi-in line with CALS, or is she dreaming?</p>
<p>No, I don’t really think CALS is easier to get into. While the acceptance rates across colleges vary, I’d wager it’s in the mid-teens at most. CALS does care a lot about “fit”, so that’s why applicants are sometimes accepted with lower-than-average test scores, but it’s the exception rather than the norm and nothing to bank on. Personally, I don’t think her test scores are in line with any school at Cornell, but if she’s hooked (eg: legacy, recruited athlete, URM) it might change things. </p>
<p>It depends on the rest of her application–if her extracurriculars are all related to food science and she’s taken a lot of classes in the field, then it could work out. But otherwise, I don’t know. She should still go ahead and apply if she’s interested, but remember that no one at Cornell or any other elite school is a lock for admission. </p>
<p>Best of luck!</p>
<p>She’s not hooked (actually she’s an ORM, lol), and as far as I’m aware, she doesn’t have any ECs related to food science. She’s not too savvy about this whole process, and I tend to agree with you that she’s not a particularly competitive applicant. When she mentioned that CALS had a lower average SAT score though, it piqued my interest. I was just wondering if this really is some sort of “back door” into Cornell like she’s been trying to tell me it is. I don’t think so, in my mind, Cornell wouldn’t be stupid enough to have a back door, and if they did other people would have found it already; but I’ve been wrong before, so I wanted to get some other opinions. </p>
<p>While the contract colleges may have marginally higher acceptance rates (a few percentage points, at most), most people without great grades/test scores need to have ECs that demonstrate fit for a program and a great essay in order to even have a chance. It sounds to me like your friend is reaching for Cornell without actually understanding what it takes to get admitted. CALs is in no way a “back door” into the university, despite what Ann Coulter may say ;-)</p>
<p>The contract colleges <em>are</em> statistically friendlier to transfer students. Perhaps encourage your friend to attend another school of his/her choosing, achieve good grades, and then apply for transfer admission if he/her still wants to attend Cornell. </p>
<p>The only “backdoor” is the transfer option (or if your family owns a farm in NYS that works closely with Cornell). Many students who are not admitted out of high school get in this way. It would appear that this is your friends best, if not only option for Cornell. </p>
<p>My understanding from reading the CC posts on Transfer Options:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Guaranteed Transfer (Transfer Option) to contract colleges are mostly offered to NY community college students who received two years of good grades from their community colleges. These are students others may think of as going to Cornell through the back door even though they are high-achievers in their community colleges.</p></li>
<li><p>Other non-community college Transfer Options are offered to those who Cornell wants to accept for freshman year but don’t have enough space for them; Cornell asked them to choose a college/university to attend first and maintain a certain level of GPA then go to Cornell if they fulfilled the GPA requirement. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>I think there is no back door to Cornell, everyone needs to be a high-achiever in some way. The lower average test scores/GPAs may come from students in colleges like Hotel, Architecture… who demonstrated their outstanding non-academic special skills to get in.</p>
<p>All colleges in Cornell are strong. #1 Undergraduate Architecture, #1 Hotel School, best Engineering in Ivy (comparable to Stanford/MIT/Caltech) , top AEM program, strong Agriculture program, outstanding Ivy Arts and Science program. All Cornell students should be proud of their achievements, relax, make friends, and enjoy their years at Cornell. </p>
<p>Prospective students can try their best to see if they can become a member of this community. And I hope they won’t be overwhelmed when they get there!</p>
<p>I did not mean to offend anyone by stating the Transfer option as a “back door”, doesn’t make any difference how you get the opportunity, it is what you do with it. However I stand by my assertion that students who really want to attend Cornell but have below average stats have a much better chance as transfers. here are the requirements:
<a href=“Admissions | CALS”>Admissions | CALS;
<p>I think some people would be confused as to Cornell has a lower standard for these ‘Transfer Option’ holders because of these two parts in the document I quoted below, but those who got in explained them in the past and my D has some GT friends she knows personally.</p>
<p>“This non-binding Transfer Option is not an offer of admission”</p>
<p>Transfer Option used to be called Guaranteed Transfer because if a GT holder fulfilled all the GPA and course requirements, he is in. However, there are always some of them didn’t get the required GPA or didn’t take all required courses. So Cornell says it is not an offer of admission (because not 100% of them will be in).</p>
<p>“Complete all course requirements for intended major with a “B” or better in each course. Earn a 3.0 cumulative GPA in your first college semester and a 3.0 average at mid-term during the second semester. Applied Economics & Management and Biological Sciences majors are required to earn a 3.5 cumulative GPA.”</p>
<p>**Several of my D’s friends were Transfer Option holders and they went to UC Berkeley for the first year, fulfilled the requirements and started at Cornell as a sophomore. UC Berkeley GPA of 3.0 isn’t always easy.</p>
<p>My D herself was waitlist at first for CoE (she applied really late on December 27th, no ED to any school and started her applications late); Cornell released many waitlisted kids and kept her until there were a handful of them. CoE still had no space available before school starts so they asked my D to go to other school then transfer; they gave her a list of required courses to take. She went to our state flagship for freshman year and go to Cornell for the next three years. (CoE doesn’t have Transfer Option but they keep the ones they want on file and encourage them to transfer. My D’s stats is 4.75 weighted 4.0 un-weighted high school GPA, 34 ACT, 790/750 SAT, Valedictorian of her class, 15 AP’s.) </p>
<p>I still think “students who really want to attend Cornell but have below average stats have a much better chance as transfers” isn’t real. Students who ‘fit’ to go to Cornell have a better chance.</p>
<p>“I still think “students who really want to attend Cornell but have below average stats have a much better chance as transfers” isn’t real. Students who ‘fit’ to go to Cornell have a better chance.
Post edited by 2Daswell at 3:55”</p>
<p>…I have worked in high school Pupil Support for many years & believe me, we’ve had 5X more kids get into CALS as transfers than out of high school, mainly because of SAT scores. They can say all they want it is about “fit” but if you don’t have the scores or a strong “hook”, your chances are slim. </p>
<p>^ Are you in New York State and are these students’ SAT scores really ‘below average’ nationally or ‘below Cornell average’? </p>
<p>Do you actually mean "NEW YORK STATE students who really want to attend Cornell CALS but have below CORNELL average stats have a much better chance as transfers”? Non-NY students would not get transfer option or transfer successfully if they weren’t up to Cornell standard.</p>
<p>You are correct, NY state students have been my experience, and yes most of them have below average (for Cornell) SAT’s as the “hole” in their application. Sorry that I was not more specific, sometimes lose sight of my audience.</p>
<p>I’m a GT for Fall 2015 (originally ED deferred) and hopefully I can clear some things up. The guaranteed transfer, or Transfer Option as it’s called now, is only offered to “a select number of first-year applicants”. Around five years back a Sun article said less than 5% of applicants received the option, and with the number of applications rising as it has been, I’d wager the rate is probably closer to 2-3% now. One would have to formally receive the TO in order for Cornell to honor the offer. Otherwise, a student would just be a regular transfer applicant, and the class/GPA requirements would be the baseline for an eligible application, not an acceptance. </p>
<p>The community colleges --> Cornell pipeline is an articulation agreement, stating that if a student at a CC completes all the requirements in satisfactory academic standing, then they stand an increased (but not absolute) chance of admission. The UC system in California does something similar with TAG, but those * are * guaranteed if a CC student meets the requirements, so it can all get a little confusing. </p>
<p>Gosh, I sound like such a shill, haha. But I think that if someone’s willing to work hard and genuinely has a passion for Cornell, guaranteed transfer or otherwise, they deserve a shot. </p>
<p>As New York’s land-grant institution, Cornell is required by the state of New York to accept a certain amount of transfers every year from NY CCs. The social elites (e.g. Ann Coulter) may look down on the contract colleges for having “lower admission standards” and for accepting community college transfers who wouldn’t have had a chance at gaining admission out of high school. Some colleges within Cornell do not require transfers to submit their SAT scores, so, yeah, it is kind of a “back door” in that certain high school underachievers (like myself) can be granted admission to this great university just by doing well at a community college for a year or two.</p>
<p>I see no harm in this; the ones gaining admission via transfer from CCs are the ones who got their act together and improved their academics after a year or two out of high school. Some people make mistakes, and Cornell/NY offers those who screwed up early in life to redeem themselves and gain admittance to a great institution. However, I can completely understand why some (like those who work their ass off to get in right after high school) don’t like the process, or view this as a back door.</p>
<p>All that being said, once you get here, nobody cares how you did in high school, whether or not you transferred from Harvard or a local CC, what your SAT scores were, etc. Once you’re here, you’re a Cornellian. You will graduate with the same BA/BS from Cornell University whether or not you gained admission directly out of high school or you “back doored” your way in ;)</p>
<p>People are also using the CC strategically as a way to save money and get a degree that gives the appearance as being the same as a 4 year Cornell degree. let’s say it like it is. It isn’t the same to spend 2 years at Cornell vs 4. That is because CC isn’t the same as Cornell. The first 2 years at Cornell and two years at CC are not the same thing and this guaranteed transfer for strategic purposes cheapens Cornell because an appreciable number of graduates are not graduates of 4 years of Cornell. That is very different from the student who lacked a stellar high school record and goes to CC to learn how to become a student. I am totally supportive of Cornell’s acceptance of those students. And they should spend 4 years at Cornell. CC were not intended as rigorous college programs. The first 2 years of Cornell are supposed to be rigorous. If they aren’t, something is wrong. So if CC is intended as a preparatory program for students not ready for college and if Cornell is rigorous from the start, a student coming from CC and graduating from Cornell 4 year after starting at CC can’t have gotten the same education nor been tested in the way a 4 year Cornell graduate would be. It is simply impossible even if the diploma looks the same. I hope that graduate and professional schools and recruiters/employees know the difference. One’s resume should indicate the years spent at Cornell and those spent at CC. And in anticipation of those arguing otherwise, let me add that good grades for the last 2 years at Cornell does not indicate that the first 2 years were the same at CC as they would have been at Cornell. The courses at Cornell in the first 2 years are often the hardest courses-students at CC have opted out of the most difficult of the Cornell courses-and As in upper level say nothing about how well a student would have done in those courses.</p>
<p>@lostaccount What exactly do you consider the “most difficult” courses at Cornell, and since when are those considered to be 1000/2000 level courses? Is it a FWS? Or Oceanography? Perhaps physical education? </p>
<p>The majority of credits transferred in fall into the free elective category of one’s major requirements. So, transfer students still need to take the same introductory credits at Cornell that freshmen/sophomores do, as well as 3000 and 4000+ level requirements and electives during later semesters. </p>
<p>As far as resumes go, one is under no obligation to say how long they attended a school, or where they went to school before being granted a BA/BS. One could simply say “Cornell University, BS xxx, 20xx.” The school that granted you a bachelors degree is the school that prospective employers are interested in. Do you think that people who struggle at Cornell and have to attend for more than 4 years in order to get a degree should be thought of in lesser terms than somebody who attained it in 4? Are they under obligation to say that it took them 5 years to complete? </p>
<p>Not exactly sure what you’re trying to argue here. This is the way the system is and has been for a long time. </p>
<p>Just wondering what a Cornell transcript looks like when someone transfers in after two years. I assume it just lists units of each transfer course, with no reference to the name of the community college/SUNY/other educational institution from which these units came, nor does it list the grade.</p>
<p>@connect1234 Pretty much, yeah. There are obviously no grades associated with any of the transfer classes. </p>
<p>The transfer option from a CC to Cornell does seem to be a good move if somebody is considering, say, law school, as the LSAC simply compiles a GPA based off of all classes at the college level. Law schools don’t generally care where you went to undergrad, with the exception of maybe the top-3. So, if somebody wants to pump up their GPA in anticipation of going to law school but also wants to eventually earn a bachelor’s from Cornell/have that “Cornell prestige” on their application/resume, then starting at a CC may be a good route. </p>
<p>Typically a transcript will list the prior institution’s name, along with the number of credits transferred, but no grades.</p>
<p>Not arguing anything at all Shocko. Stating my opinion. By all means put your down as well. Most competitive/elite colleges don’t view the first two years of the academic experience they provide as being the same as that provided by a community college. Just isn’t and it is unfortunate that Cornell gives the impression that it does view them as the same.</p>
<p>@lostaccount, you are welcome to your opinion, but because @shockastrika83 is a transfer student from community college into Cornell, it is unlikely that you two will agree on this issue. Wish entrance into the college I’ve applied ED to didn’t do it (HumEc), but oh well.</p>