<p>While visiting, I heard from several upperclassmen that that while they were getting a great education, they were not enthusiastic at all about the quality of life there. I am getting cold feet about CMU.
Is the school really that stressful and unfunloving?</p>
<p>You’re ED right. Hear your pickle… </p>
<p>Depends when you visited-- if you were here during a week of midterms, you picked up on a stress vibe and/or if you were hanging with some of the large work-load majors (ArchE & CS) and/or with students who are all 4.0s sure, it can be stressful at times–but CMU students really love it at CMU. No, we don’t do division 1 sports --but students show their school pride in many ways and have lots of fun. Completely Kate has answered similar questions here many times-- there’s all types at CMU-- some just study, some just play video games, others are active in social life, clubs, sports, Greek Life – college is about balance-- and there’s enough types of students here to find a balance with VERY little effort.</p>
<p>Absolutely both my S and D love it at CMU and so do all their friends we’ve met and been out to brunch, dinner, etc. I’ve been to three Carnivals and CMU students clearly have loads of fun prepping and enjoying Carnival - that’s just one event. </p>
<p>People work very hard here-- but they play hard too. It’s not stress 24/7 – except perhaps for the few who have to have a 4.o–either self or parent imposed-- reality, the gpa average is 3.1 and I’ve met many students with less than that-- working hard, and loving CMU.</p>
<p>Take a second visit. Come to Sleeping Bag Weekend in January – it’s earlier in the semester – you’ll catch another vibe for sure. If you’re around downer students-- ask them to take you elsewhere-- perhaps to an event at a club/group you might like to join when you’re a student.</p>
<p>It’s a shame the hosts you were with gave you that feeling–.</p>
<p>Good luck-- results out in two weeks !</p>
<p>CMU is one of those schools that is like a magnet for workaholics (“I’m doubling in CS and ECE with a minor in Biology!”). Luckily, those comprise about 20% of the population, and the rest of us seem to get along just fine. And do not live in caves and fear sunlight.</p>
<p>Of course, you will have difficult courses that will require you to put in a lot of work. This may be a considerable amount more work than you are used to at your high school. I know that, especially amongst freshmen who are adjusting, it’s not always easy to land that perfect work/life balance if you don’t have solid time management skills or end up with a “bad” professor. However, by second semester of freshman year, everything works itself out and most people have figured out what is necessary to get work done during the day and have fun at night. </p>
<p>Since you visited and talked to students, I’m assuming you did a sleeping bag weekend, which means you were probably staying with first-semester freshmen. Their experience is not indicative of how the rest of your time at CMU will go. 
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<p>Like mom2012 said, it also depends on the time of year. 90% of the time I’d say “Yeah I love CMU!” and be really excited, but right now, it’s the last week of classes and projects are due and I’m sick and I pretty much want to keel over like a cockroach and wag my legs in the air. So those upperclassmen were probably feeling the same way.</p>
<p>My S and roomate are freshman (CFA and IS) and hosted a couple of baggies…they couldn’t possibly fit them in that tiny double …I believe they set up a fort in the commons area and put them there. I have seen the floor of the commons area so I shudder at the arrangement…but it seems that their visitors had a blast. They are looking forward to hosting more during diversity weekend the next semester. I was amazed because they have so much work how can they have time for visitors? Well…they love it so much they wanted the visiting prospective students to have a good time and get enthusiastic. That tells me more than words how much they are enjoying themselves despite more work than seems humanly possible. My S was NOT a workaholic in HS (I wonder why CMU took him?) but has risen to the challenge and is better organized and working harder than I have ever seen him. He had a schedule of work over Thanksgiving but still managed to get out almost every evening with his HS friends. A lot of his “social” time is related to coursework…working in the studios with the other CFA students. However, his roomate also seems to enjoy the study groups and group projects in his major. Their only regret is not getting off campus enough and doing more ECs. S got stranded one night downtown after the bus service had ended…his roomate got stranded at Kennywood but public safety picked them up. His roomate has time for an EC and to be a dorm rep. My S started in a couple of ECs but was overwhelmed…he plans to get back into them next semester now he has figured out his organization a bit more. Both said they had zero regrets about CMU and were very, very happy with the social life but also get a lot of enjoyment out of their coursework, study groups, etc. I am secretly hoping that my HS D will get excited about CMU during visits to Pittsburgh…</p>
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<p>This is very true. For the most part while I was an undergrad I had two groups of friends. The people I did homework with from my major and had a ton of fun doing it (even though it might take us working from 6 PM to 4 AM to get it done after having worked on it individually for a while), and my friends from my freshman year dorm who I continued to live with for the rest of my stay at CMU.</p>
<p>To enjoy the school you really need to enjoy doing work, because otherwise it’ll just be this giant weight always pressing on you. If you can appreciate what you’re learning and figure out how to get satisfaction from finishing really difficult problem sets, then you’ll be fine. It’s also important to be able to take an afternoon off and just have fun, even though you know you’ve got a ton of work to do. The people that can’t do that tend to burn out 2/3 of the way through the quarter since they never let themselves be themselves.</p>
<p>@kate-- was that a subliminal reference to the cockroaches that roam the halls of Mudge?</p>
<p>OP-- I think you just got stuck with some strange disheartened hosts. You need to have another visit. Your host should have left you pumped about the school.
Reality-- if hard work sounds awful-- CMU (and similarly ranked schools) may not be right. But the “quirky down-to-earth” population of CMU is much more appealing than a place like MIT or Caltech given similar ranked schools for some of the best programs at CMU. Keep in mind any STEM type major at a highly ranked school is lots of work. The beauty of CMU is that collaboration rather than competition really is the status quo.
Like fineartsmom and racinweaver said,-- working in groups is pretty much a way of life. Both S and D are up into into the morning hours with their classmates solving problem sets. It would be awful if they were alone-- but somehow there is some sort of twisted enjoyment and sense of satisfaction in it all. Contrast that with a school like Cornell, where there’s a curve in engineering classes and a unusually high suicide rate, and few smiles on campus.</p>
<p>P.S. Fineartsmom – it’s “baggers” not “baggies”…that was funny!</p>
<p>Thanks for the correction so I don’t humiliate myself when on campus…I think I get confused with the bagpipes, baggers, baggy eyes, bag-it --all relevant to CMU.</p>
<p>The Tea Party has done wonders for concept of “bagging”…nuff said</p>
<p>most important thing I realize in college is that college is really what you get out of it.</p>
<p>In CMU, you get up at 6am Saturday and you’ll find kids at Gates (CMU’s CS building) coding their program, but there are more people who do not get up till 11.</p>
<p>At CMU, being either way, you won’t be alone. I’m no workaholic, but doing ton of homework with my friends and complaining about it is so much more fun than going to parties together. It kinda make you think like “Man this is a lot of work, but you know what? I can do this and I’m gonna!”. God, what a nerd am I.</p>
<p>“… a unusually high suicide rate…”
This is not true. There was a cluster recently, but it was preceded by multiple years where there were none there at all. The longer-term rate there is at or below national averages.</p>
<p>monydad-- incorrect</p>
<p>The “cluster” notion is Cornell’s official PR spin.
Unfortunately, I have inside information (good friend is a Cornell clergy), and officially there were several “accidents” or “suicides” taking place unreported b/c family members wanted it that way. The deaths of their students last year was very high.
It’s a grim place. I was there as a undergrad and it was no different. I strongly disagree- -Cornell is more competitive and a more unhappy place.
Their undergraduate engineering curriculum works on a curve-- so that students cannot cooperate. (Brother in Law is an Engineering Faculty member)</p>
<p>Monydad-- I’m a proud Cornell undergrad alumna myself. I love Cornell.
Cornell is a fabulous place and an excellent education is provided.</p>
<p>That said, the OP asked about stress at CMU, and it’s my opinion, that relatively speaking-- as engineering schools go-- CMU doesn’t even reach the stress levels at Cornell. CMU students enjoy being at CMU-- and while Cornell students probably are equally school spirited-- the vibe is very different. I would have been thrilled had either my S or D attended Cornell as I did-- both applied and both were accepted. But after visiting, They sensed a difference in the student vibe-- maybe the size of the school, maybe the location- -maybe the weather-- who knows. They did not feel that students enjoyed engineering at Cornell. By contrast, they had no concerns after visiting for sleeping bag weekends at CMU. It’s our family’s opinion, that CMU comparatively speaking, a happier place to be than Cornell for engineering.</p>
<p>Brother in law is on a task force on freshman experience addressing Cornell Engineering student retention and the curriculum issues. Faculty teaching evals pretty much awful for entry point and upper point classes and there is serious debate going on about the blasted curve and how it’s detrimental to student cohesiveness and retention in engineering. If we’re looking at stats, many of the suicides last year were in engineering - -that’s a concern . This information isn’t public info-- and I’m glad we had a relative to share this with us. We got wind of all this when S was considering Cornell last year and BIL was really discouraging attendance until some of these issues could be fixed. Faculty concern for students was addressed by the Dean and task force.</p>
<p>Of course this is way off the OP opening topic-- but I have never heard anything like these types of issues surfacing at CMU – but they are very much on the minds of Cornell administrators funneling down to the faculty. So my conclusions is that Cornell is relatively more stressful than CMU for engineering.</p>
<p>So Monydad-- if you are a Cornellian with a Cornellian D, might I ask what brings you to the CMU threads?</p>
<p>[Hopkins</a> suicide rate in line with national college trend - News](<a href=“http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2006/04/20/News/Hopkins.Suicide.Rate.In.Line.With.National.College.Trend-2242150.shtml]Hopkins”>http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2006/04/20/News/Hopkins.Suicide.Rate.In.Line.With.National.College.Trend-2242150.shtml)</p>
<p>[MIT</a> Suicides Reflect National Trends - The Tech](<a href=“http://tech.mit.edu/V120/N6/comp6.6n.html]MIT”>http://tech.mit.edu/V120/N6/comp6.6n.html)</p>
<p>“The rate of suicide over time at Cornell University has been consistent with national suicide data in higher education, despite Cornell’s reputation as having had an elevated rate.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cornell.edu/caring/docs/062010-cu-consultation-report-basic.pdf[/url]”>http://www.cornell.edu/caring/docs/062010-cu-consultation-report-basic.pdf</a></p>
<p>"The deaths of their students last year was very high. "
Yes it was, I said that.
“The “cluster” notion is Cornell’s official PR spin.”</p>
<p>From that same consultant’s report,
“constituted a statistically significant as well as a clinically meaningful suicide cluster.”</p>
<p>“They occasionally spread through a school system, through a community, or in terms of a celebrity suicide wave, nationally. This is called a suicide cluster”
[Copycat</a> suicide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_cluster]Copycat”>Copycat suicide - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>In any event, the local suicide rate owes more to easy jumps into the gorge off a bridge than it does to anything that goes on at Cornell. The gorge bridges have become somewhat iconic, like the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. Half the gorge-outs there don’t even go to Cornell. In response to the cluster they are finally making this harder to do going forward.</p>
<p>“It’s a grim place. I was there as a undergrad and it was no different.”
My daughter is there now and having the time of her life. Ok well not right this second, actually she has a ton of work at the moment. But generally, she loves it there. She is having a much better time there, actually than I did. So from my vantage point it’s lots different. It’s not grim for her, far from it.</p>
<p>“…students cannot cooperate.”
Your Brother in law apparently doesn’t know how students are studying for his courses in the dorms (and why should he). I studied engineering there myself, it was tough but the sense was “we are all in this together”. People in my engineering classes studied together routinely. And if you went there, and were anywhere near the engineers, you should know better. I really only recall a curve applying to lower level courses, and those were large so competitive behavior towards the few classmates who were your friends would have been pointless, as these were too few individuals to influence the curve anyway. And was something I did not in any way experience.</p>
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<p>Most of my classes in engineering at CMU were graded on a curve, yet I had no problem cooperating with all of my friends on homeworks and studying. And, heck, we had from six to sixteen people in our class, so one grade certainly can swing the curve. I know I was the highest B in the class a couple of times after a curve was applied.</p>
<p>Edit: I suppose I should also mention the large cluster of suicides we had here at Caltech recently. The school has a historically low rate, but in the last year or two we’ve lost one undergrad, two grads, and a tenured professor.</p>
<p>"So Monydad-- if you are a Cornellian with a Cornellian D, might I ask what brings you to the CMU threads? "</p>
<p>Because I am a Cornellian with a Cornellian D, I find threads where I might be relevant by using the CC search function for Cornell. So you brought me here.</p>
<p>"…many of the suicides last year were in engineering - -that’s a concern "</p>
<p>No, that’s a blip. (though of course all suicides are a concern). It’s too small a number to have any statistical significance. FWIW when I was there the suicides were not engineers so far as I remember, they seemed to be mostly foreign grad students in the ag school, or something. Likely another blip. Depression is a mental health issue, no particular major has a monopoly on it, and healthy people do not jump off bridges even if they don’t do well on a test.</p>
<p>Cornell engineering’s retention rate is actually very high. I’m sure they were looking at all these things closely in response to the suicide cluster, but they were likely overreacting IMO. But review is a good thing, and of course any improvements they can come up with would be welcome, no doubt. It is not true that nobody likes it there, but it is academically demanding. Readers may draw their own hypotheses as to whether they really believe CMU engineering is materially different. I know I have mine.</p>
<p>“I know I was the highest B in the class a couple of times after a curve was applied.”</p>
<p>That’s one thing that surprised me about CMU, when D1 took summer courses there. They had no + or -, and falling a whole letter grade for only a slight decrease in performance seemed rather stark to me.</p>
<p>At Cornell they have + and -, so that highest B becomes B+ or A-,which is not as severe. Though I guess Cornell’s A- maybe becomes an A at CMU, which might be nice on the other side. If that’s what would happen.</p>
<p>Yeah, if not for the lack of +/- grades I don’t know many people that would have gotten a flat-out A in technical classes.</p>
<p>I think one of the hardest things was that the engineering college requires a 3.75 to get on the Dean’s list, while all the other colleges only had a 3.5. So if you had four classes, three of which were 9 units and one was 12, you better hope your B wasn’t in the 12.</p>
<p>Most sudden increases (even by one) of suicide rates at a University results in some type of reevaluation and analysis by the administration. This is because it is such a horrific act to have a young person end their own life but, unfortunately, analysis and superficial preventive measures are the only actions the university can take once a kid has died. When I was at UW-madison there were a sudden group of PhD econ and finance students that committed suicide or attempted suicide. The administration responded by getting rid of prelim exams since the excessive importance of these exams seemed to be one of the causal factors. I doubt that this is the only thing that drove these poor students to suicide but universities try to eliminate what seem like obvious culprits (the curve system?). Frankly, most universities will have student suicides and often in clusters (copy-cat syndrome)…terribly, terribly sad. There are schools with reputations for competitiveness and ruthlessness but I suspect it tends to be symptomatic of a particular group of students…Duke had a terrible rep for students sabotaging science labs amongst the premed types but when I left I had premed friends who found their classmates very supportive and collegial. I swear a couple of bad apples (highly competitive, destructive personality) students or even a professor who likes to stimulate “competition” in some weeder class can infect class after class which then affects a whole cohort of students. Then the school gets a reputation that then may be accentuated by a suicide cluster or sabotage acts, and voil</p>
<p>“One of the reasons that CMU may have escaped the destructive competitive rep,”</p>
<p>What makes you think CMU escaped?
Whatever reputation Cornell engineering had among its engineers, to the best of my recollection we thought of CMU engineering as being pretty much the same darned thing.
Heck our physics sequence even used the Young (CMU) textbooks.
On the other hand, nobody in Cornell engineering of my aquaintance thought of it as 'destructive competitive rep", just academically challenging.</p>
<p>I have to agree with some of the posters here, that how the students feel about CMU seems to depend alot on when you visit. My son was totally turned off at the accepted students sleeping bag weekend when he was approached by 4 separate students who were very emotional about their extreme unhappiness at CMU. It was really shocking and he obviously did not attend. However, I hear that kids who visited the next weekend loved it. Depends on who you meet I guess, it can make or break your feeling about the environment.</p>
<p>As for suicides, some students come to college with huge unknown baggage, true it can be triggered by stress of competition, but I hardly think that is the only factor.</p>