Is Columbia right for me?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
1

<p>Hey guys,</p>

<p>I really need some help here. I'm a high school senior, and I was lucky enough to be accepted to Penn, Cornell, Duke, and Columbia. After a lot of deliberation, I have narrowed my options down to Columbia and Duke. I will be visiting Duke next week, but I will not be able to visit Columbia before I make my decision. I suppose posting this question on the Columbia section might make my results a bit biased, but I have seen some pretty objective advice given on this forum in the past. For a little background, I plan on majoring in statistics/economics (either/or, perhaps a double major). Here are some of my thoughts:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>From some of the people at Columbia I've spoken with, I've heard that there is a shortage of school spirit - at least when it comes to athletics. I wouldn't base an entire decision on this, but I really love the energy coming from Duke. It seems to match my personality a little more. </p></li>
<li><p>Although Duke is a fantastic school, I'm not sure that it wouldn't be considered a downgrade - however slight - from Columbia in terms of academics. I may be completely wrong on this, and that is where I would like the most feedback to this post. I am primarily concerned about post-graduate connections and the job market... does the Ivy League grant one a significant advantage in that department? I would feel a bit petty making my decision over a name brand, but if that is reality than I may have to accept it. </p></li>
<li><p>Location-wise, I think either would be really exciting. I think I would love NYC, but I don't know if that outweighs thought #1.</p></li>
<li><p>I feel like I would fit in better with the community at Duke. Again, that is based purely on my perception. I'm sure I will know more after my visit next week. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Any feedback or help would be much appreciated. I am absolutely torn over this decision. If I missed anything of great importance, let me know. </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>I was in a similar decision between Columbia (deffered ED, accepted RD) and Berkeley. I visited Columbia last week and I spoke a lot to my two close friends (SEAS '16 and '15) who attend Columbia now. I ended up SIRing to Berkeley and i’ll give you my reasons.</p>

<p>My intended major is engineering and Columbia SEAS loses to Berkeley’s engineering by a long shot. In general, all non-financial STEM majors will not have as many opportunities at Columbia as they would at west-coast schools, but since you’re choosing between Duke and Columbia, I’d say NYC has more in the ways of networking and job/internship opportunities than Durham, unless your chose something in biological sciences or medicine. You have to decide based on your major, but in general, job and networking opportunities: advantage Columbia. </p>

<p>You’re concerned about school spirit and atmosphere. I was too. And… .ugh… Columbia really does not have a good atmosphere. Everything is divisive: there is SEAS, CC, Barnard, and GS and it seems that everyone has something nasty to say about the others. And you’re right, school spirit. Very few people other than our tour guides were proudly sporting the Columbia blue and showing ‘lion pride.’ In fact, the guides generally avoided talking about school spirit and camaraderie and hammered more on prestige, Ivy League status, and NYC. Also, like most Ivy League and top colleges, much of the student body is somewhat stressed out because they have a lot of their plates. I was okay with that, but Columbia offers no way to diffuse the tension. NYC is all about hustle and bustle and the Columbia campus is pitiful to say the least. It’s a tiny, geometrically organized rectangle dropped into NYC. I preferred Berkeley’s more sprawling and opulent campus. And from what I’ve seen, Duke has a huge and wonderful campus (though Gothic stuff isn’t for me lol). In general, most of your business, be it work, research, or just hanging out will happen on campus. My friends told me that they have too much work and simply don’t go to NYC as much as you would think. It’s usually a once-a-week thing, if at all. And unless you’re interested in fencing, Columbia sports really isn’t too good. Atmosphere, people, and environment advantage: Duke.</p>

<p>My overall analysis was that I would spend four years of my life married to my work without a beautiful campus or supportive student body to get me by. There’s little to no school spirit. If you were to pick Columbia, it should only be because you value academics and prestige beyond all else (which in my case, of course, Columbia lost the academics battle a long time ago). I saw a school that disappointed me once in December and couldn’t even put on a nice face for me when I visited in April. But, most of this depends on major. If you’re going in for pre-law or a financial major, I would drop everything and run to Columbia. If you are going in for STEM or medicine, I would choose Duke.</p>

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<p>Columbia Chemistry and physics is much better than Duke just FYI.</p>

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<p>You’ll have to figure out if you value a premium to academics/prestige/job opportunities vs. 4 years of watching athletics. Consider that it is difficult to gain entry to Cameron Indoor with a 9,314 seating capacity and that Coach K is 66 years old… when he retires, Duke basketball will face an inevitable drop off.</p>

5

<p>Hi! I was actually in the exact same situation as you two years ago–I was deciding between Columbia and Duke. I made my decision based on my feeling of profound excitement about Columbia. While I love Duke, and am seriously considering it for medical school in a couple years, I eventually decided that it wasn’t a fit for me. Since you can’t visit us, I recommend visiting our admissions website and looking at the site for our Econ/Stats program here [Joint</a> Economics-Statistics Major | Columbia University - Economics](<a href=“http://econ.columbia.edu/joint-economics-statistics-major]Joint”>http://econ.columbia.edu/joint-economics-statistics-major). To answer your concern about Columbia, we absolutely do have school spirit, but it comes in two forms: firstly, we have spirit surrounding our athletics; however, the more overwhelming sense of community on campus is fostered by a sense of bonding over things like the Core, New York, and everything else Columbia students have in common, including our traditions, like the Varsity Show, Bacchanal, and Orgo Night. I can’t comment on Duke since I do not attend there, but I will say I’ve had a great time at Columbia so far in my two years here.</p>

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<p>Columbia’s chemistry and physics department have a substantial edge on Duke. What sort of evidence do you need? I could pull up paper publications but that would take so much time. It’s widely known in academia that Columbia is better in chem and physics. Duke does have a slightly better bio department but there’s no question about Chem and Physics. If anything go look at the grad rankings for US news and world report. They may not be the best indicator but they’re at least something. I have nothing against Duke at all, in case you think I’m a duke basher.</p>

7

<p>It would be a no-brainer for me. I’d definitely go to Columbia if it was between the two, especially if you plan on majoring in statistics and/or economics. The financial firms near Wall Street will be throwing money at you to take their job if you graduated from Columbia with a double major in that. Even if you weren’t majoring in either of those, I’d still say you should definitely pick Columbia. It simply has a better reputation.</p>

<p>It is true, Columbia does lack school spirit though. It’s unfortunate. The administration should do something about that.</p>

8

<p>It depends on what you want to do post graduation. If finance/business is it, then Columbia offers you better opportunities because of its location.</p>

<p>Yes, Columbia does lack in school spirit when it comes to athletics. Namely because Ivy League athletics in general is not exactly something to write home about (unless you’re talking about Princeton’s lacrosse team, Harvard’s basketball team, which still pale in comparison to Duke basketball). But the lack of school spirit at Columbia can also be attributed to the location of the school.</p>

<p>The campus is not much of a campus, it’s really just a few blocks that are gated off from the city, which is an overly simplistic description, but you get my point. The location of the school has both pro’s and con’s. The benefits of going to a school in the city such as Columbia is all of the professional opportunities you will have, not to mention the diversity of the culture. There are few cities in the world that can compare to New York City. But at the same time, it’s New York City, so you’re not going to have a sprawling 20-acre campus. It’s up to you to decide what is more important: having fun for a few years on campus while attending a top 10 or 15 school, or whatever Duke is ranked nowadays, or setting yourself up for greater professional opportunities in the long run by attending a top 5 school like Columbia with the Ivy League pedigree.</p>

<p>And regarding what cc2015student said, the school spirit she refers to (regarding athletics, “orgo night”, etc) is not really school spirit per se… it’s simply extracurricular activities that are available at most four-year institutions. Let me set the record straight. The experience is what YOU make of it. And I think that you need to think hard about what it is about school spirit at Duke that makes you want to go there, and you need to consider what you’ll be sacrificing in order to be able to get student season tickets to Duke basketball and football games.</p>

<p>I think that Columbia alum are just as excited and enthusiastic about their school as Duke alum are of theirs. It’s just that school spirit is manifested differently at both schools. While Duke is a prestigious school and academically rigorous, you seem to be fixating on the athletics at Duke. I went to University of Michigan (Ann Arbor) before transferring to Columbia and I can tell you, going to a D1 school with great teams in the major sports is awesome. But in the end, it doesn’t really help you once you graduate. And yeah, graduating with a Duke degree isn’t anything to scoff at. But graduating with a Columbia degree is more impressive based on name recognition alone.</p>

<p>What if YOU were the employer and you had to pick between two identical resumes, one from a Duke student and one from a Columbia student? Who would you pick?</p>

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<p>OP brought up the idea of Duke’s athletics and school spirit surrounding their renown athletic programs. My point was that if Duke’s athletics/school spirit/“partying” (as darthvader1 calls it) is the determining factor for OP in choosing which school to go to, OP should seriously reconsider.</p>

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<p>Darthvader1 is just a huge duke fanboy. He goes to duke and claims he would go to duke over Harvard anyday in a previous post. Just take everything he says with a grain of salt</p>

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<p>Zhanger: 66 is nowhere near retirement in the OP’s college lifetime. And Duke has academics/prestige/job opportunities. </p>

<p>OP: I love being in NYC and the opportunities are much closer to endless when you can have lunch on Sunday with the same IB analysts you met at a networking event on Tuesday, or take a part time job during the semester at a fashion company/hedge fund/etc. You’ll miss the school spirit, though (Lord knows I do). At the same time, my friends at Duke love the atmosphere, but when they come to NYC to visit they were convinced I had the better scenario lol. I guess that just means they both have their pros and cons.</p>

<p>You can PM if you have more specific questions. I can’t tell you which school to choose, but if you need info on Columbia I’d be glad to help.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I just wanted to clarify a few things that possibly didn’t come across as clearly as they could have in my original post. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t say I’m “fixating” on Duke athletics, just using them as an example of the school spirit. I am not drawn in by the quality of team, but the quality of the fans. If Duke had the same exact spirit without the top-ranked team, I would still feel the same way. It’s not the athletics - it’s the fact that it really seems like everyone that goes to Duke loves and supports Duke. It seems like a very cohesive community. Again, this is simply based off of my perception - I have not been to either school before. </p>

<p>@giwook Partying is definitely not a determining factor in choosing which school to go to. I am just significantly concerned about Columbia’s school spirit. That being said, I understand that Columbia has an advantage based on its location right in NYC.</p>

13

<p>FutureVpFinance, yes it is likely Coach K remains over the next 4 years. My point is that the school spirit which draws in the OP is tied to the basketball team and will not last long after graduation in its current incarnation when that retirement comes. So yes, soaking up that environment in college may seem fun, but the post-graduation career opportunities the university affords are more important, and Columbia has just has a little more polish to the name. Duke is a fine school, and may be close to an Ivy, but is not an Ivy.</p>

14

<p>Alright relax. I’m sorry I didn’t read the entire post. My bad.</p>

15

<p>There is virtually no difference in finance recruitment between these schools. All of the bulge bracket banks recruit at Duke with the exception of Credit Suisse along with all of the multinational firms including Nomura, BNP Paribas, Macquarie, RBC, and RBS. I imagine all of these firms hire at Columbia as well but its misleading to suggest that going to Duke will handicap you vs. going to Columbia. The fact that Columbia is located in NYC doesn’t mean anything because most students will intern at investment banks during their summer break as part of structured internships and not during the middle of the year.</p>

<p>Columbia’s Chemistry and Physics departments are stronger than Duke’s though at the graduate level; I’m not sure how this extends to undergraduate education which is highly dependent on what professor is teaching a specific course. I doubt Dartmouth grads are at a disadvantage compared to Wisconsin alums for graduate school admissions just because Dartmouth has mediocre graduate programs.</p>

<p>Graduate schools know that the caliber of the student body at Duke is sky high so they won’t differentiate a Physics degree there than one from Columbia at the undergraduate level. I can provide a lot of statistics that attest to the fact that Duke has slightly better Professional School and Fellowship placement than Columbia but I won’t because its truly insignificant.</p>

<p>If your heart is saying Duke, go to Duke. If you liked Columbia more, I would have recommended Columbia.</p>

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<p>

And Columbia is no HYPSM…what’s your point?</p>

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<p>Columbia has a stronger Economics graduate program than Duke but Duke has a stronger Statistics graduate program than Columbia.</p>

<p>[Best</a> Statistics Programs | Top Statistics Schools | US News Best Graduate Schools](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/statistics-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/statistics-rankings)</p>

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<p>These schools are so different. I would find a way to visit both and let your gut decide. Duke is “as good” as many ivies and Columbia is “as good” as any of its ivy peers so don’t let ivy status or “HYPSM” contribute to the noise. Only people on CC make these meaningless distinctions.</p>

<p>This is a huge investment and will be the next four years of your life, so I’d find a way to visit Columbia and Duke and then decide.</p>

19

<p>The point is that Columbia>Duke, are you blind to that goldenboy?</p>

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<p>Both Duke and Columbia are top notch academically in your areas of interest. Both have great reputations with employers. The difference is the ambiance. One is urban and other other is more sub-urban. One has big time sports, the other does not. What is your priority? My DD was admitted to both and prefers Columbia because she would rather avoid the rah rah “school spirit” of schools with big time sports. So, pick based on your values. Also, DD got Much better financial aid from Columbia. It wasn’t even close.</p>