Is Dartmouth is a sub-standard school?

Student Lounge International Students
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Oxbridge takes in more international (about 30%) than US Ivies (7%). It is a matter of policy. In a way, US Ivies are hard to get into only because of this 7% quota system. It is relatively ok for domestic students to get into lower ivies like Cornell, good GPA/SAT/ECs/Essays would suffice. In contrast, Oxbridge does not have a international quota so they are just taking the most able. The average quality of students at Oxbridge is comparable to HYP.</p>

<p>Whereas for Imperial, I guess you are really kidding since it is about the same difficulty as Cornell. In fact, a friend of mine would be reading engineering at Cornell as he was rejected by Imperial. I don't know whether you are lying that 38/40 got offers, but since only 3 are going, I guess the take up rate for offers at your region is low. Imperial would calculate the statistic and figure that they need to give out more offers to attract students from your region. This is not unlike how it is way easier for domestic students to enter Ivies.</p>

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US News places Dartmouth as a university, not LAC. Dartmouth should not use the LAC excuse to cover its poor showing in world university rankings.

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<p>I said Dartmouth was a de facto LAC. God, how thick are you? Do you even know what de facto means?</p>

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Caltech may not land you into good finance positions because it is a tech school! I bet Caltech land you better at Google than Cornell does. And a Caltech grad deserves more respect than a Cornell one.

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<p>Hey spencer, I still want you to answer my questions from above. Oh, can't do it can you? That's because you're fighting a losing battle.</p>

<p>You also talk about who deserves what. Well spencer, it's not that easy. There are certainly some Cornell grads that could shank their Caltech counterparts. Just like any one Harvard graduate is not unequivocally better than a graduate from say...Brown.</p>

<p>But that still doesn't detract from my point that finance is a highly coveted area. Hey, a lot of Caltechers want to be doctors as well. But they can't do it because of the ridiculous grade deflation at Caltech.</p>

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Imperial College is a clear win, even though the US dominates the internet search engine hits.
Now don't try to draw a crappy analogy by comparing the popularity of key words "Cornell" to "Imperial College". Cornell means many things, like "Chris Cornell leaving Audioslave". If you want to play fair and square, compare "Cornell" to "Imperial" instead.

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<p>Since you're running out of arguments, you go for - Google hits?</p>

<p>Ok...I don't even have to comment on this one. Other CCers can see for themselves how your argument is flawed on so many levels.</p>

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It's obvious that this guy only has respect for science/math oriented schools.

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<p>Oh I wouldn't say that. It's obvious that spencer is anti-Dartmouth. He started three threads like the one we're in now, because he couldn't get enough of veteran posters like sakky, hawkette, and InquilineKea telling him off.</p>

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Unless he made it to Harvard, his arrogance and despise for Cornell is unwarranted. I don't see why Cornell blows Berkeley and Imperial out of way. Both of these schools do better research than Cornell. Most student from my region would rank Berkeley > Imperial > Cornell, in this order. A note for you: another of my friend got in Berkeley and Columbia, and she is going Berkeley.</p>

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This is a good post: 1. They are talking shlt about Imperial. Full of crap really.
2. Of the the location is important. Imperial grads would go on to fill the offices of Google Europe and Investment banks in London, while Princeton grads would go on to fill those in Wall Street.</p>

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Rubbish! You don't know what you are talking about!
Exceptional? What do you mean by exceptional? I hardly think Cornell students are exceptional, much less so for Dartmouth ones.
I strongly suspect that even a moderately good student from US can make it into Cornell. I strongly suspect that even a fine student from US can make it into Dartmouth.</p>

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I also LOL. That's so damn hilarious. His routine:
1. Placing Dartmouth on top of other Ivies bar HYP
2. Placing Dartmouth on top of Oxbridge (Jesus! :D)
3. Saying people going into any other colleges are "not the brightest lightbulbs around"
Lovely!</p>

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Yes Berkeley is hard for OOS and insane for int'l. It is definitely harder than Dartmouth for international, esp. so because it has a much better recognition world-wide.</p>

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It just goes to show that the examples given by Big Brother 1984 are all exceptions rather than rule.</p>

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For example (statistics come from the Chancellor of the university, whom I know personally), 79 students applied to Berkely for engineering this year, and 1 was admitted

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Are you serious??? W00t, that must be only me, then (not kidding!).</p>

<p>@ammarsfound:</p>

<p>You have no idea of what you're talking of. We had many Oxbridge vs. Ivy discussions already and I don't want to bring it up again. To make a long story short: HYPSM+Oxbridge play in the same league. Choosing one college or the other is basically (1) a matter of taste, and (2) a matter of subject. Anyway, saying that Oxbridge accepts 30% and concluding that it's easy to get into is more than just ridiculous, it's plainly dumb. Get cleverer! :P</p>

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<p>Hey spencer, are you going to answer my questions? Or are you going to beat around the bush and try to attack Dartmouth some more?</p>

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I still find Seoul National's rankings very dubious. A lot of SNU grads go on to get amazing post-graduate opportunities, and the school itself is very highly coveted in South Korea. But hey, are you still trying to justify the rankings to us? Answer my question.

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Is this another ad hominem? I am a Canadian-Vietnamese actually. But why should that matter? Do you think I'm actually racially biased towards my own race/country of origin?

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It's a simple yes or no question. Is UT Austin unequivocally, the better school? Stop equivocating. Answer the question.

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What's fair is fair. If you're going to highlight the difficulty of the school, you have to do it for all relevant scenarios. Let's face it, Caltech is probably the most difficult school in the country (that or MIT). So what do you have to say to the students of Harvard, Princeton, and Yale?

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But really, what's with these unfair comparisons? Comparing Dartmouth to Caltech? I want you to admit it - right now. This thread is about you bashing Dartmouth. You haven't proven a point to anyone here. You weren't able to get anyone on your side. Why do you insist on fighting a battle that you just can't win? Listen, you should just give up bro.

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<p>You can't just answer the questions you like to hear, or that you can only answer in a debate. You have to account for all of my points addressed. Let's face it, you can't answer my questions because you probably have no answers for them.</p>

<p>Uh uh. I can see right through your strategy. And it isn't going to work on me. If you want to play fair, then you to account every single point I've made.</p>

<p>What's fair is fair. Stop equivocating. Stop focusing on points that you can handle. Answer the questions.</p>

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Choosing one college or the other is basically (1) a matter of taste, and (2) a matter of subject. Anyway, saying that Oxbridge accepts 30% and concluding that it's easy to get into is more than just ridiculous, it's plainly dumb.

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<p>This is a fair point. Thank you for your impartiality aw5k.</p>

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<p>Whereas for Imperial, I guess you are really kidding since it is about the same difficulty as Cornell. In fact, a friend of mine would be reading engineering at Cornell as he was rejected by Imperial. I don't know whether you are lying that 38/40 got offers, but since only 3 are going, I guess the take up rate for offers at your region is low. Imperial would calculate the statistic and figure that they need to give out more offers to attract students from your region. This is not unlike how it is way easier for domestic students to enter Ivies.</p>

<p>Those three guys going to imperial? I'm assuming youre going to meet them there? How about you just check with them?</p>

<p>Imperials entire admission process is silly (as is that of most british colleges, oxbridge excluded). ALL they care about is the number of A's you have in the cambridge International exams (which is THE single most grade inflated board on the planet), an essay where they ask you LIST (not talk about, just list) everything you've done. If you have 7 or 8 A's in your o levels, and 3 in your AS, you're in, and were part of ONE society in school, you're off to imperial college london. So please don't even TRY to compare the selectivity of the ivies with imperial. As for prestige, it depends where you're off to. I doubt many people will have heard of imperial in the US. It's recognized in south east asia because of colonial ties. If you go to africa or something, people will NOT have heard of it. I dont even know WHY you care who's heard of a college and who's not. I mean if ten years down the line you're teaching in a classroom, and you tell your class that you went to imperial college, and no one seems impressed......i mean HOW insecure do you have to be for that to matter? </p>

<p>Choosing one college or the other is basically (1) a matter of taste, and (2) a matter of subject. Anyway, saying that Oxbridge accepts 30% and concluding that it's easy to get into is more than just ridiculous, it's plainly dumb.</p>

<p>When did i say that it was easy to get into? I said its as hard to get into as a lower ivy. Thats VERY hard as it stands. But, while you can OBVIOUSLY compare their brand-value and prestige, you cannot compare the selectivities of HYPSM to oxbridge, if for no other reason than that they look for completely different things. HYPSM attract more internationals because they dish out money in the form of aid. Oxbridge doesn't. This automatically means that only the richest 30 percent of the most deserving applicants can afford oxbridge. In contrast, ANYONE who gets into harvard, princeton, mit, yale can afford it. This means the rich kids have to compete with the poorer ones at top american colleges. They don't at oxbridge.</p>

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This is a good post: 1. They are talking shlt about Imperial. Full of crap really

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<p>And you aren't talking ***** about Dartmouth? Come on, who started this thread? You are going to have to answer for your initial claims buddy. That's why I don't usually start threads.</p>

<p>But we've all backed up our points with several anecdotes and qualified evidence (aka from slipper, a Dartmouth alumni; hawkette, an employer; sakky, a Berkeley alum etc.). Let's be honest, the only evidence you have to back up your claims isn't exactly qualified. First the THES and the Jiaotong, and now - Google hits.</p>

<p>How low can you go?</p>

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2. Of the the location is important. Imperial grads would go on to fill the offices of Google Europe and Investment banks in London, while Princeton grads would go on to fill those in Wall Street.

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<p>I don't accept this excuse. I've already provided a counter-example to the location argument. Also, why can't American graduates take jobs overseas? I'm fairly certain we're doing well in Asia right now as managers.</p>

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Rubbish! You don't know what you are talking about!
Exceptional? What do you mean by exceptional? I hardly think Cornell students are exceptional, much less so for Dartmouth ones.
I strongly suspect that even a moderately good student from US can make it into Cornell. I strongly suspect that even a fine student from US can make it into Dartmouth.

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<p>Oh I would argue that it is not me who doesn't know what he's talking about. If Cornell students aren't exceptional, then what makes UT Austin students?</p>

<p>United States college admissions is a holistic process. So no, it is not enough to just be a good student. For Imperial, it would seem that all you would need are mostly grades and test scores. No offense bro, but you don't have to be that good to get into Imperial. ammar's example proves this (I suspect that he goes to a fairly competitive high school).</p>

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I also LOL. That's so damn hilarious. His routine:
1. Placing Dartmouth on top of other Ivies bar HYP

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<p>Those are YOUR words, not mine. Find me an example of where I've placed Dartmouth above all the other Ivies sans HYP. Oh, can't do it can you? That's because I never made such claims.</p>

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2. Placing Dartmouth on top of Oxbridge (Jesus! )

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<p>For the purposes of Wall Street recruiting and professional schools, I still concede that. Let's face it, most Oxbridge undergraduates won't get exceptionally good jobs in finance or whatnot. Most students there are also restricted by their major, it seems.</p>

<p>But listen, I don't blame you if you find that observation counterintuitive. You are cognitively biased after all. I've provided examples of why certain colleges will get you great jobs. You haven't done that. Instead, you've relied on cognitive preferences and brand name perception. But come on spencer, you have to face the facts. We've had this discussion before. Oxbridge wasn't even the focus of this - it's about you dissing Dartmouth, remember?</p>

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3. Saying people going into any other colleges are "not the brightest lightbulbs around"
Lovely!

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<p>Hey, I know my own anecdotes. Are you saying that I'm wrong?</p>

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It just goes to show that the examples given by Big Brother 1984 are all exceptions rather than rule.

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<p>Well of course those are just anecdotes! I never stated otherwise. I was just trying to bring up an interesting point to foster an interesting observation in this thread. Unlike you, who keeps insisting on insulting Dartmouth.</p>

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<p>Unless he made it to Harvard, his arrogance and despise for Cornell is unwarranted. I don't see why Cornell blows Berkeley and Imperial out of way. Both of these schools do better research than Cornell. Most student from my region would rank Berkeley > Imperial > Cornell, in this order. A note for you: another of my friend got in Berkeley and Columbia, and she is going Berkeley.</p>

<p>He did :-p Cornell gave him like 10000 in loans and he was just like ***? Harvards aid package was much more generous. He admitted, however, that he'd probably have been happier at dartmouth/brown, but the Harvard name was little too much to turn down. Just out of curiosity what is your 'region' ?</p>

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Just out of curiosity what is your 'region' ?

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<p>spencer is from Singapore.</p>

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<p>So another colonial country. It's understandable why you'd hold imperial in a higher regard that American colleges then. I think all former colonies do (besides maybe canada, but thats probably due to trans border influences). But if you want to get a job in singapore, then i guess imperial probably would help you out more than a degree from an american college :-/ If you want to go into post-grad and stuff, or if you plan on working in the states, dartmouth's clearly the better choice.</p>

<p>But I still fail to see why you're coming to an online forum dissing a college you didnt even apply to.</p>

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<p>That's my unbiased view of the situation: Harvard is the hardest to get into, then gap, follow by Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Oxbridge, MIT and Caltech. After that, gap, then Berkeley, Columbia, Chicago, Imperial, LSE and may be Duke. After that, gap, then Cornell, Penn and other lower Ivies.</p>

<p>Not all Ivies are the same. Harvard is infinitely harder than Penn/Cornell. Dartmouth is no where near Harvard, in teams of prestige. Be honest here, it is more rational to equate Dartmouth to Cornell.</p>

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I don't have particular bias for UK universities. I don't hold Imperial in higher regard than Berkeley, that's for sure. If they have accepted me, I would have rejected Imperial. Go check the Sci&Tech page at any major newspaper. I bet the term "University of California, Berkeley" or "University of California at Berkeley" is mentioned at least once every two days.</p>

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<p>No but your country in general will. </p>

<p>Berkeleys renowned for research you wouldnt be doing if you went there. Dartmouths famous for its study abroad programs, good undergrad professors, dplan, aid packages, small classes, and good grad school/job placement. That is stuff thats pertinent to what you'll be doing and how you will perform as an undergrad. But the point remains why would you want to go to a school whose students hate it there (cal, chicago, cornell)?</p>