<p>...or is that untrue?</p>
<p>Just look at the common data sets of the 8 schools for your answer.</p>
<p>i heard its the 4th hardest</p>
<p>^Yes, I think that's true. HYP are undeniably the hardest. Columbia, Penn, and Brown are roughly equal, but I think slightly easier, (by a negligible amount, though). Dartmouth is definitely harder than Cornell.</p>
<p>Dartmouth, Columbia, Penn, and Brown are about the same. Cornell is less selective.</p>
<p>There is nothing easy about getting admitted to Dartmouth College. Applying ED may increase your odds of admission.</p>
<p>If you take the average SAT score between the 25th and 75th percentiles for the Ivies and Stanford, you get this:</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard - 2240</li>
<li>Yale - 2235</li>
<li>Princeton - 2220</li>
<li>Dartmouth - 2155</li>
<li>Stanford - 2155</li>
<li>Brown - 2140</li>
<li>Columbia - 2140</li>
<li>UPenn - 2130</li>
<li>Cornell - 2070</li>
</ol>
<p>This is using a combination of each school's 2007-2008 CDS's and this</a> site, as unreliable as it may be.</p>
<p>This should show you another facet of Dartmouth's selectivity compared to other big schools.</p>
<p>Harvard & Yale- 1495
Princeton- 1485
Columbia-1450
Dartmouth-1440
Brown, Penn-1430
Cornell-1395</p>
<p>I think the 75th percentile is a better indicator of selectivity and quality of student body though- so..</p>
<p>Harvard & Yale-1590
Princeton- 1580
Dartmouth- 1550
Columbia- 1540
Brown, Penn-1530
Cornell-1500</p>
<p>I got this from good old US News, :D</p>
<p>Crap, I'm barely above Dartmouth's averages. (1480/1600, 2200/2400), and I'm a white, non recruited athlete, non legacy. That does not bode well.</p>
<p>Another good tool to check on your status is the Academic Index or AI. You can use the SAT writing scores as one of the SAT subject scores. If you score an 8 or a 9 you have a really good of getting in. </p>
<p>Mondo: You raise an interesting point regarding the 75th percentil of matriculated students possibly being a better indicator of the quality of the student body than the median SAT, the average (mean) SAT or the mid-point SAT.
My opinion is that the 25th percentile of matriculated students is the best indicator of the quality of the student body because courses are more likely to be taught at this level than at the 75th percentile level.
The USNews America's Best Colleges 25th percentile of matriculated students:</p>
<p>CalTech 1470
Harvey Mudd 1430
Harvard 1400
Yale 1400
Princeton 1390
MIT 1380
Pomona 1380
WashUStL 1370
Columbia 1360
Swarthmore 1360
Northwestern 1350
Stanford 1340
Duke 1340
Williams 1340
Tufts 1340
Chicago 1330
Dartmouth 1330
Penn 1330
Brown 1330
Amherst 1330
Rice 1310
Carleton 1310
Claremont McKenna 1310
Vassar 1310
Wash & Lee 1310
Notre Dame 1300
Georgetown 1300
Emory 1300
Vanderbilt 1300
Middlebury 1300
Wellesley 1300
Wesleyan 1300
Cornell 1290</p>
<p>*Bowdoin, Reed & Bard are not included because SAT I scores are optional.</p>
<p>There are 32 total National Universities & LACs that report a 25th percentile of matriculated students with SAT scores of at least 1300/1600 all of which rank above at least one Ivy League school. Northwestern, Stanford, Duke, WashUStL, MIT, CalTech, Harvey Mudd, Pomona & Swarthmore rank above, at least, half of the eight (8) Ivies.
My point is that in this context Dartmouth College is tied at #16, and that several other schools have Ivy League quality students.</p>
<p>According to this, Dartmouth is 14...
Most</a> Selective Colleges - List of the 20 Most Selective Colleges</p>
<p>
[quote]
According to this, Dartmouth is 14...
Most Selective Colleges - List of the 20 Most Selective Colleges
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's based on acceptance rate alone. Standardized test scores, class rank, etc. of the matriculating class would tell you more.</p>
<p>^Acceptance rates can be misleading. For example, U Chicago's is really high, because it only appeals to a certain kind of kid; it's still a very selective school. On the flip side, Columbia's is lower by a few points than Dartmouth's, Penn's, and Brown's, but only because so many kids from NYC apply there who are under qualified.</p>
<p>Also that college yahoo list is outdated. A new list would have Dartmouth at 11 (accept rate of 13.2%). Eliminating specialty schools like the naval Academy, Olin, College of the Ozarks (huh?) and Cooper union its number 7.</p>
<p>25 is misleading for small Division I schools like Dartmouth because you have to factor in the recruited athletes which take up a larger portion of a school like D than, say, Penn. Not to rip of athletes, many were my friends and brothers, and many had extremely high SATs, but many, at the same time, did not.
Quality of student body =/= level of academics as taught in classes. In fact, at most good schools, the level of academics won't be that different. I don't know much about computers so I don't know how accurate this depiction is, but: If you have 2 computers, one with a 3Ghz chip and one with a 2.5 Ghz chip, and you essentially install the same software, which one performs better? That's the value of a school's selectivity, I think. Of course, the TYPE of academics, the focus of the profs, etc., might be different, but generally at the undergraduate level, you're not going to be taking courses that make you significantly more likely to achieve a Nobel than you would at a different school.</p>
<p>Dartmouth suffers from a reverse-Columbia syndrome. It is the least known, WASPiest (as much as we have moved away from where we are, we still lead the pack of eight, at least in the eyes of potential applicants) Ivy in the middle of the nowhere (which is D's greatest strengths but do not much appeal to the high school kids that dreamed of a life like Felicity and Gossip Girl), while a great majority of Ivy applicants these days are urban, diverse, non-jocks.
I love D for all the things it is, i'd prefer that it doesn't try to 'market' itself. I'm happy with the rankings falling to like, 25, if that means we don't pander to the least common denominator of ivy applicants. </p>
<p>But anyways, yeah, Dartmouth isn't a cakewalk dude. But they def seem to go way beyond the numbers, more so than any of the lesser five ivies.</p>
<p>I'll be honest. I've talked to a lot of people, and despite the fact that they love Dartmouth currently, most of them were waitlisted or rejected from the other Ivies. After Dartmouth, the next best school one of my friends got into was UTexas.</p>
<p>That's just so sad sneamia, I like to think all D kids are like DS who was single mindedly focused on it even though he was a legacy at 2 other ivies and had the stats to be considered in earnest anywhere. It is so unique that I just think the types who love what it offers don't take a second look at the holy trinity. But so is Brown for it's open curriculum, Columbia for it's urban setting and core, Wharton for it's unparalleled business education and Cornell for it's beauty and hotel school. I would think kids who knew themselves would choose all of these over HYP if it were what they wanted. It's so disappointing to see that such bright kids behave like cattle! DS's roommate still wants Yale, his first choice.</p>
<p>I disagree. Pretty much all of my friends at D got into another Ivy - or two, or three. Many I know chose Dart over Duke, Brown, Cornell, and Penn. If you look at revealed preference stats Dartmouth does really really well. Sure HYP are more selective - but look at Penn, columbia, and Brown, and you'll find pretty much the same. Cornell usually is the clear least selective of the group.</p>
<p>Also, lets face it, there are going to be groups of kids that want NYC (columbia) or are from the tri-state area and want a quick train home (Penn.) But there are just as many kids who want community, amazing study abroad, a strong social scene, and a LAC-like environment. Dartmouth cleans up in that world. Within Dartmouth certain groups who might have chosen Dartmouth because they got in, but there are many others who really really wanted D over any other Ivy. Like most kids who apply to LACs for example. </p>
<p>To put it into perspective Columbia was the only Ivy I got into! My best friend only got into Penn, another only into Brown, etc. Its all who you hang out with and what they were looking for. My bet is every Ivy is full of students who only got into that Ivy given the randomness of the process.</p>