FYI… to choose Native American on an application, you have to have tribe # and papers certifying it. Which are not easy to get. You actually have to go to the reservations outpost and show copious amounts of certified paperwork for tribal certification. My family has lineage back to Native American tribes and land. A co worker of my father years back went thru the process to get the paperwork for his kids (specifically for college admittance) and it took years to do.
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Seems like that is not necessary in all cases… but that may mean that “Native American” is actually two categories (“Native American with tribal enrollment” and “Native American without tribal enrollment”) that may be treated differently at colleges where it matters.
There are other variations, such as this American Indian Tuition Waiver that only requires descent from someone with tribal enrollment.
I’m not even sure how to make sure the AOs knew my D23, much less that they were friends. She felt like most questions she had were obvious, easy enough to find on the website, etc… She actively pushed back against “playing the game”.
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Regardless, they would legitmately be Native American because they or someone they are a direct descendant of has certification (tribally verified member), which they would certainly have to prove at some point in the admissions process/ tuition waiver process. The point was you can check the box but if you are not Native American, it will eventually catch up to you.
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I have been lurking a long time here, but I haven’t seen this addressed. Forgive me if it was.
One of the ways EA could be/is likely hurting high stats students is the SCEA. S23 wanted to go ahead and try for a reach SCEA. This meant NO other EA applications to private colleges. Luckily because my first was homeschooled all the way so I was the college counselor, I knew that many private and public colleges limit top merit competitions/honors programs/ etc. to students applying by Nov 1. So that is what son did. (He applied to six total including 2 reaches.)
So he was/is still in the running for several non-automatic merit awards because we were aware we had to meet the EA deadline while applying officially as “Regular” The SCEA turned out to be a no. If many of the next tier in prestige colleges want to fill their classes with mostly EA or ED applications, it would/could hurt those high stats students who CANNOT apply EA (even non-binding) because they want to take a chance on a SCEA. So far, I have not been seeing that so long as the student meets the EA deadline even without officially being EA, but many students and counselors do not know those early deadlines.
I do feel my S23 would have been better off not applying to the SCEA. I knew the AO would not look favorably on someone from our town/school (son only started that school as a junior). On the other hand, two of his other colleges (safeties) are likely giving him more consideration for top awards because of our school name. No way to help that. Politics. But if students want to apply to some of the second tier schools and those schools want to get a class made up of basically all EA, it limits the possibility to shoot for the moon with a SCEA school.
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Very fair analysis - but SCEA is in some ways akin to an ED - in that they bind you from certain activities - such as applying EA to a private. Of course, whether SCEA/REA then each school could be different.
But I don’t think that’s EA hurting a kid. That’s a kid making an agreement or signing a special contract to limit their options - which typically EA doesn’t do.
So I agree with your analysis, but I think it would answer the question of - is SCEA/REA backfiring…as opposed to EA.
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Yes, I agree. I don’t like SCEA.
I was more responding to the idea that “colleges trying to get all their students from an EA pool” is hurting some high stats students. I think changing the idea of ED to this current set up is bad overall, but I actually agree with OP who said the whole system seems broken. For D17, it already seemed broken. S23 more so. One part of that is from shifting the entire thing so early.
Luckily, S23 had lower expectations than D17. All the adults in our family are rooting for him to choose a complete safety. (As is 90% acceptance rate. He’s already in with his 35ACT/3.9GPA) We just aren’t telling him yet so maybe he will come to that conclusion on his own. He’s my child who tends to oppose what adults want just because they suggest it… since birth. So we are all rooting for him to pick the safest of all his six applications. Luckily, they didn’t see the application and just assume he wouldn’t come if accepted! (As we have also discussed on this thread!)
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I think if someone wanted to take the political and marketing edge off of race-based (or any other demographic variable…) admissions, a college can rightly say something like:
“By providing a diverse campus, we hope to subject our students to a demographic environment closely resembling the variety found in United States.”
I think that’s a worthy aim, and something they can say, and mean it – and it removes or reduces the appearance of being a political statement or marketing fluff.
The chance of a particular student being admitted is key, rather than the overall admit rate of the college. While the 2 are correlated, there are countless exceptions. Countless exceptions is not good when looking for a “safety.”
For example, suppose your son was interested in business at UIUC. UIUC had a 60% admit rate in 2021, so does this make it a good safety? UIUC admits by major, so the admit rate and selectivity vary wildly between majors. The vast majority of A- students like your son who applied to business in the following year (2022) were rejected – the opposite of what one hopes for in a safety. UIUC prioritizes in state, so I imagine chance of admission would be even slimmer, if he was out of state. However, if the A- GPA put him in the top x% of class and he was in state, then UT Austin might be a good choice for a safety, in spite of UT Austin having a <30% admit rate.
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Agree. For example, my daughter applied to a college with a 49% admit rate. But if you look at their stats, the GPA and test scores are actually quite low, they just don’t have a high scoring application pool. Contrast that with, for example, Gonzaga in WA which has something like a 70% admissions rate. But, for a Catholic school kid from Washington state like my daughter, it can be a hard admit, because half of your class applies there and the scores are actually quite high.
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My kids also attend private schools with a history of excellent placement. At the moment, their college counselors are just as confused by the mayhem of the past two years as counselors elsewhere.
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For UT Austin, top 6% class rank is auto-admit for Texas resident students, but that does not guarantee admission to the desired major (with the usual suspects like CS, engineering majors, and business being among those with competitive admission).
I.e. a Texas resident with the needed class rank may consider it a safety if wanting a non-competitive major, but not if wanting a competitive major.
We know one student in that situation. Got a full free tuition scholarship to our state flagship for being disadvantaged though they were one of the weathliest families in town. 1/8 of their heritage was disadvantaged (not AA) Though you’d never know it by looking at them.
When the scholarship was announced at the school ceremony. I think everyone’s jaw hit the floor.
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I have heard of a few kids deferred from schools they should have been admitted in EA.
Deferred means you’ll get reviewed again in the context of the RD pool. You didn’t get the advantage of an early acceptance but you weren’t hurt by applying EA.
And maybe that deferral informs some revision to your RD strategy.
EVERY year, parents who are going through this with their oldest or after a long gap are surprised at how changed the landscape is and can’t believe that some sure bet didn’t accept their kid. But also, most don’t realize a lot of schools are now genuinely very good. My kid applied to a number that we were wowed by AND that I would have turned up my nose at 40 years ago. My mom said of a school DS was considering for ED “but isn’t that everyone’s safety school?” Well, maybe 45 years ago when your kids were applying, but not today! (Kid ended up on WL.)
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Some people have them. My friend was 1/4th NA. Her father lived on the reservation. She lived in the city. Her son was 1/8th. They both had all the paperwork necessary as they got checks all the time from the tribe when the tribe would sell mineral rights, hunting and fishing rights, etc. Sometimes she’d get a benefit for being 1/4th but her son wouldn’t get any of that share.
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Yes this is our family, my father is 1/4th, his mother was 1/2 and I am 1/8th. My father gets those checks, I however do not, but would when he passes.
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I just wanted to add that my D’s college counselor won’t even use the word “safety” anymore. He says “likely” because in this current landscape, you really can’t say for sure.
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That is the term we used on S23’s spreadsheet chart!
But deep down, we knew three were safeties.
On our spreadsheet we have a different designation for merit though. Admissions might be likely or fit, with part merit likely, and large merit a reach. Even a safety has reach for large merit often.
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If an academic safety depended on competitive merit to make it affordable, we didn’t consider it a safety at all…it was placed into ‘target’/‘reach’ depending on competitiveness of merit.
Our thinking was - getting a ‘yes’ for admittance when the student wouldn’t be able to attend due to finances was actually a ‘no’. This wasn’t horseshoes or hand grenades.
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