<p>sorry to bug the parents again, but this forum is really where you get the best and most detailed responses from. i wasn't able to get much on this subject from the emory forum. anyway, i guess i just have a preconceived notion of emory's student body because it's in the south, in georgia, but how diverse is emory really? what i dislike most is when a school is very diverse but segregated. do students of different ethnicities interact at emory? is emory just as diverse as other top unis? i'm looking at emory's creative writing program for a transfer choice and this aspect of a college's atmosphere is particularly important to me.</p>
<p>From a racial/ethnic standpoint, Emory is very diverse -- not quite as diverse as Duke, but much more diverse than Vanderbilt, just to pick a couple of schools that pull from the same pool:</p>
<p>African-American 9%
Asian-American 16%
Hispanic 3%
Native American 0%
White 69%
International 4% </p>
<p>The Asian-American number stands out. It's not something you typically see at southern schools.</p>
<p>From an economic diversity standpoint, Emory has a reasonably large number of very low-income students with 12% receiving federal Pell grants.</p>
<p>However, only 38% of undergrads qualify for need based financial aid, which is a very small number, perhaps supporting the stereotype of Emory as a bit of a "rich kids" school.</p>
<p>BTW, all of these numbers are available for every college in America, either from the school's Common Data Set or the USNEW's style guidebooks (for example, the premium on-line edition). You can get a very good snapshot of a school by looking at diversity and financial aid numbers, especially when comparing schools of similar sizes, SATs, and geographic locations.</p>
<p>pinkearmuffs, as Georgia is my "home" state, and I have visited recently, I can attest that the rest of Georgia and Emory have about as much in common with each other as a Hooter's has in common with the rest of San Francisco. Or a Nascar track has with the rest of Tribeca? How about ...... </p>
<p>(Check out the OOS numbers and realize that 92% or so OOS is NOT from Tennessee.)</p>
<p>I dunno. I think Emory is quite representative of Atlanta. In fact, Emory's character may be as thoroughly entangled with Atlanta's growth as any University I can think of. </p>
<p>People often point to the number of yankees at Emory, but that's a big part of Atlanta's growth over the last 40 years, as well.</p>
<p>Now, Atlanta IS unlike the rest of the state, I will grant you that.</p>
<p>interesteddad- I agree, as the parent of a freshman and a resident of metro Atlanta for 20 years; the population at Emory looks very much like the population of any of the metro Atlanta public schools. I agree though; it may very well be different from schools in other areas of GA.</p>
<p>To the OP; I hear that there is not much segregation going on there.</p>
<p>One nice thing about a school with a large percentage of the students being OOS is that the weekends on campus are lively and fun.</p>
<p>Since interesteddad brought up Vanderbilt, here are their diversity numbers for the class of 2009 (does not include international students of color): 113 African American students enrolled (8.3 % of the class); 113 Asian Americans (7 %); 102 Hispanic students (6.3 %); 7 Native American students (.4 %); 10 other students of color (.6 %). Certainly not a Berkeley or even an Emory, but not as homogenous as many think.</p>
<p>16 percent of the entering class is from Tennessee; followed by 8 percent from Texas and Georgia, 7 percent from New York, and 6.5 percent from Florida.</p>
<p>We live in the Northeast and I admit that most of the people I am friendly with have a certain view of southern schools, aside from certain HBCUs like Spelman (Atl), Morehouse (Atl) & Hampton (VA). Southern schools aren't popular, to put it mildly. Even in my son's social circle, I don't think anyone considered southern schools, with the exception of those noted above.</p>
<p>Emory is the ONE exception. Emory is lately considered as a "hot" school for African Americans (and also for whites from our area). Emory and Brown took turns on my son's list in the #2 spot (he is African American). </p>
<p>If he had not secured his ED school, I suspect Emory may have won his heart in the end - based on his leanings as we neared December of last year. The support for Emory was overwhelming from family and friends.</p>
<p>Atlanta is something of a Mecca for african american college students as they head to one of the six colleges that make up the "Atlanta University Center". Though Emory is not one of these schools, the notion of going to college in ATL is appealing to African Americans as a southern city catering to african american college students. Emory, by extension, has to enjoy some of this pull. If you compare Emory to Duke, Emory draws more Mid-Atlantic students than does Duke. Other than that, their profiles are fairly similar. International student (9%) is the same at both. </p>
<p>While other southern schools (not HBCUs) may boast higher % of African Americans in their population, I suspect Emory may have a larger draw of African Americans from the North, esp. amongst those who can compete on the academic level of someplace like Duke, but want a school without the heavy sports scene - or those who just want to be in Atlanta. Atlanta is also the #1 US tourist destination for African Americans. </p>
<p>I suspect Emory will continue to rise in both selectivity and diversity. </p>
<p>As far as self-segregation goes, I don't know how that plays out at Emory. That's an interesting topic. It's probably hard to find a school with lots of diversity and little self-segregation. There's probably less self-segregation on a campus with less diversity. </p>
<p>While Emory may be diverse, the metro Atlanta area is full of contradiction. Emory flects its immediate location; an upscale and urbane area near the DeKalb County border. The corporate boundaries of the city of Atlanta lie largely within Fulton County, but a small part of the city is actually in neighboring DeKalb.</p>
<p>Demographically and economically, metro Atlanta is segregated. This is not an indictment of the city. It's just the facts. But the fact of the matter is, many Atlanta residents would say tha the metro area is relatively a comfortable place to live, relative to race relations. I don't doubt that a college student coming from elsewhere would enjoy her/his undergraduate years in Atlanta. Just don't expect nirvana.</p>
<p>Yes. Like all cities, Atlanta has a less affluent core surrounded by affluent suburban sprawl. However, I believe that the historic strength of the African-American political, business, and educational base may well be the single biggest reason that Atlanta emerged as the economic center of the New South. </p>
<p>There was a strong, educated middle-class black community in Atlanta very early on, fueled in large part by the concentration of HBCs (Morehouse, Spellman, etc.). This community in turn produced or attracted political leaders such as MLK, Andy Young, John Lewis, Maynard Jackson. I think it was very important to Atlanta's growth to have effective African-American leaders who provided role models for their own communities and for the city as a whole and worked well with the city's business power base. Effective race relations were a source of pride for Atlanta, among black and white leaders -- and I'm talking well back into the 60's or even earlier. By the mid-70s, the city government was controlled by black elected officials -- something that I think was a big plus as white interests were more than adequately represented by the strength of the business community. Everyone had a stake in the growth.</p>
<p>I see Emory as being an integral part of that dynamic -- inseparable from the growth experienced by Atlanta over the last fifty years or so. Momsdream's observations make sense because the city as a whole is known to be a place that embraces and offers tremendous opportunity for educated African-American leaders -- in politics, in business, in the professions. Emory has grown in that environment.</p>
<p>Interesteddad - that was me "Momsdream" - not "Northstarmom"....
though I am flattered to have been confused with her; And I'm sure she would have even more insight into this discussion than I have had. I agree with your comments. As African Americans become more comfortable with sending our best and brightest to non-HBCU schools (which is still a work in progress), Emory is sure to enjoy some of that change. I feel really good about Emory - for many reasons - for all races.</p>
<p>Emory is one of 2 traditional "Jewish" schools in the South, Tulane being the other. I'm not Jewish, but my understanding is that the tradition began many years ago when anti-Semitism and discrimination was widespread, and grew to have a life of its own. Now (and then) they are good places for old Southern Jewish families to send their kids to meet other Jewish kids. This is another piece of the diversity puzzle.</p>
<p>My S is at Duke because it met certain criteria for him but he strongly considered Vandy, and misses that easy stroll into Nashville from campus. I worked for a few years on the same street as Emory and believe me all three schools have great aspects, but Atlanta and Nashville sparkle in terms of town gown relations. Here is my "Vandy Undergrad truly is changing in a progressive way" pitch...I was there in the 80s when the undergrad mock election went totally Reagan which was super odd for college students. The undergrad school had lost the confidence of Jewish families who quit applying, although they would return for Law or Medicine. The undergrad school was steeped in southern debutantes and such. Their grad schools have been diverse and sophisticated a long time. The hospital is a regional jewel.
But I took my S there for a serious look last October. Finally. Debate and Discourse on campus. The college split 50/50 for Kerry and Bush, which makes it a changed place if not as liberal as many of our best universities. There were good college rags on both sides and my son was hosted by a splendid guy from Atlanta, but also hung with guys from Boston and Chicago. For those of you who don't know Nashville, I lived there twice. The first time I had a spouse in a Vandy Grad school and I was a white student in a program housed at Tennesse State University for two years==where Oprah went to college. I did clinical work at Meharry Medical College, an historically important school for training black physicians. Interested in a night out...we could end up at cultural things offered at Fisk, another historically special private black university. While Nashville is not Atlanta, it is vibrant and progressive with many professionals of color everywhere you go. They have built the Shulman Center at Vandy in the last couple years and have made a conscious effort to backtrack and make it school that would interest Jewish students again. Google that article in the WSJ. Interesting read. Also the Californians who invade to run the music industry add a little West Coast element to lunch anywhere, the economy is great and it is a very livable city without the hassles of sprawling Atlanta, a town I have lived in four times and also appreciate. If you love the arts, so do Nashvillians. I hear sports are also pretty fun. All in all, a great town even if it is landlocked. They just hit the road to panhandle Gulf shore beaches...8 hours or less. Not that far from St. Louis and Louisville, KY. There are lakes and rolling farmlands.</p>
<p>I think that a Emory's Jewish appeal is also representative of a strong, and relatively well-accepted Jewish community in Atlanta (relative to other southern cities).</p>
<p>Atlanta's first black mayor, Maynard Jackson, took office in 1974, replaced Atlanta's first Jewish mayor, who took office in 1970 -- both events occurring well ahead of the curve across the South. Their immediate predecessor was Mayor Ivan Allen, who served from 1962 to 1970, who had close ties to MLK and pushed very hard throughout his term in office to further positive race relations in the city. Avoidng much of the racial ugliness occurring across the South in that period through relatively progressive politics, Atlanta positioned itself for economic growth. Emory reflects that community culture and that economic boom.</p>
<p>momsdream - it is mainly for financial reasons that i am transferring. i am out of state (from texas) and next year is another hike in tuition that my family really cannot afford. this year i am an extension student so it is same as in state price. but it is more than money issues - the size of the school is overwhelming, and i just hate how impersonal and bureaucratic the atmosphere is. professors absolutely don't care for the well being of students. you're probably thinking wow what a foolish kid to go all the way from texas to berkeley to pay the out of state price tag - it's true, i know i should have thought all of this out more carefully to begin with, but i kind of got caught up in prestige. i think i know better now that the value in a school is not necessarily in its name. not to say that i won't be applying to ANY top schools for transfer, but this time i will look closely at the school that is an all-around best fit for me.</p>
<p>From the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, 2002:
"*<br>
Ranking America's Leading Universities on Their Success in Integrating African Americans </p>
<p>JBHE has ranked America's leading universities according to their relative success in attracting, enrolling, and graduating African-American students as well as their progress in bringing black professors to their campuses. Universities are ranked according to a blending of 13 widely accepted quantitative measures of institutional racial integration. ...
We wish to emphasize that our rankings relate only to the institutional integration of African Americans. Our agenda does not include Hispanics, Asians, or other people of color. </p>
<p>Unlike other ranking efforts in the field of higher education, our statistics, without exception, are highly quantitative.....</p>
<p>Duke University had the highest average diversity rating of the nation's most selective and academically prestigious universities. Also ranking among the top five in racial diversity are Emory University, Princeton University, Washington University, and Vanderbilt University. It is of interest to note that three of the top five universities in our ratings are in southern states. Forty years ago, these institutions were lily-white. The progress they have made has been impressive. </p>
<p>The University of Chicago was the lowest-ranked university in our survey followed by CalTech and Johns Hopkins....</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Duke University (Average Score: 90.36): Duke finished at the top of our survey for the simple reason that it consistently ranked near the top for each category and did not rank anywhere near the bottom in any category. Duke finished no worse than ninth in any one of the 11 categories for which data was available. Duke also had the best performance among the top-ranked universities in its five-year gain in the percentage of blacks in its freshman class. For the 2001-02 academic year, blacks made up a striking 11.2 percent of the first-year class at Duke. This was up from 7.8 percent five years ago. Duke's worst performing category was in the percentage of tenured faculty who are black. However, with a tenured faculty that is 2.7 percent black, Duke still was rated higher in this category than 17 of the other 26 high-prestige universities. ... </p></li>
<li><p>Emory University (Average Score: 86.62): Emory finished first in total black enrollments and second in three other categories: black faculty, gain in black faculty, and gain in tenured black faculty. Emory's enrollment and faculty numbers alone would have placed the university ahead of Duke in our rankings. But the university's comparatively low black student graduation rate, the decline in that rate over the past several years, and the university's very low black student yield brought down its overall average. Emory has more very high scores in more categories than Duke but is not as consistent across the board. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>"i think i know better now that the value in a school is not necessarily in its name"</p>
<p>PEM-</p>
<p>You've learned much in only one year. Believe what you've written. Also know how personal of a decsion it is. Good luck on landing somewhere right for you. As an aside, the Jewish population at Emory is another major plus.</p>
<p>Pinkearmuffs-
I live in this great metropolitan area, and can tell you that Atlanta, and Emory, are quite diverse. Lots of opportunities and activities on and off campus. Also, because there is so much to do in the metro area, yo will likely meet students form other Atlanta area colleges (Ga Tech, Ga. State, Clark-Atlanta U, Spelman, Morehouse, Morris Brown, Oglethorpe, Agnes Scott, Southern Tech, Kennesaw State, Ga. Perimeter college, to name a few...) I hope you will plan to come visit Atlanta and the campus. I would assume you can schedule an overnight visit.
I am sorry to disagree with Curmudgeon, but I think his comments are way off base on this one. Northstarmom is right on the mark.</p>
<p>Emory has discontinued overnight visits, by the way. Atlanta, my hometown for the past 24 years, is a complex place. No Nirvana for sure, but there are many concerned, enlightened folks here. </p>
<p>I know Emory rather well. I recommend that you visit and ask the students themselves. The administration is very committed to diversity and I have seen the changes with my own eyes. There is some segregation, as there always is, but there is commitment to make diversity meaningful, i.e. interactive. A few years back some students raised concerns about the integration of the black student body, etc., and the school jumped right on the issue. Also, the school is sensitive to subtle racism. The surrounding neighborhood is among the most liberal in town and Atlanta has a vibrant, empowered black community.</p>
<p>I'm glad to hear Vanderbilt has improved in this realm. I graduated from there and must say, sadly, that a black person was a rare sight in those days.</p>