<p>Emory gets mentioned in the NY Times once again!</p>
<p>"According to U.S. News & World Report, of the 41 schools that claim to have sent more than 50 percent of their students to a study-abroad program, only one, Dartmouth, is in the Ivy League.</p>
<p>I use the word “claim” deliberately and urge skepticism with rankings. They depend on honest reporting from schools, and in recent years both Claremont McKenna College and Emory University were forced to admit inflation in what they’d trumpeted about the test scores or other achievements of their students. "</p>
<p>One thing that I do have to say in Emory’s defense, is that a lot of this behavior in protest of the department cuts is really despicable. Some of these articles that I see in the Emory Wheel newspaper are just full of nasty personal attacks against school administrators. </p>
<p>Although I would not recommend the school, and believe that it uses overly aggressive marketing tactics, these personal attacks are below the belt. Emory (and most schools) can’t have top departments in every subject. That was clear a long time ago. They need to focus on what they are good at and not pretend that they are good at everything. Accusing top administrators of racism because of these cuts is a really scummy tactic. Emory went out of its way to increase diversity and this is the thanks they get. I have to defend President Wagner on this. He would go around campus and ask everyone how they were liking Emory and would ask if there was anything he could do to improve their experience. He was busier than anyone in the administration, but would always answer emails. It isn’t realistic to think that a university president controls everything at the institution. Corporate CEOs make less of difference than most people think, and university presidents have even less power over the institutions that they govern. The problems with Emory were caused largely by administrators who were being dishonest and not doing their jobs. These protestors are using nasty personal attacks to try and drive out people in the administration who are actually trying to arrest the school’s decline. While I think that the administration in general has done a lousy job, and would not encourage most high school students to consider the school, I will defend the president and Dean Forman (who I don’t really know) from these nasty personal attacks.</p>
<p>Yeah, I didn’t like the whole racism accusations either…</p>
<p>And there are honestly only a handful of “elite” schools that I would truly recommend for high schoolers who may care about universities being run in an ethical manner, and most are not private because the ideas behind the behavior of the admins. at Emory is rampant at most elite private schools. Often the fallout is less visible though. Regardless of the admins. sketchiness, no one can truly argue that Emory provides a subpar education overall. It’s very solid, but perhaps the admins. serve as a barrier to making it even better sometimes. Again, I can only hope that these cuts end up achieving their intended goals though, again, cutting econ. and journalism kind of worry me. At least attempting to have a healthy econ. dept is central to any major university and any journalism program in a major research university that just so happens to be in Atlanta has real potential and should probably be invested in, not destroyed. </p>
<p>As for “overly agressive marketing”. I don’t think I can really agree. Emory actually seems to do a poor job at marketing itself in comparison to peers and I think people in admissions and other places involved in repping the school know it. If it was actually good at marketing the “real” Emory, it would probably be attracting different (perhaps better or more interesting) students. Emory would probably be a little different right now if its earlier (lackluster, nonetheless) marketing efforts had rightfully bolstered key programs in the social sciences and humanities as opposed to its huge healthcare and research scene (“We’re right across from the CDC” is a favorite bragging point that all pre-meds naively write in their “why Emory?” essays. Seriously, how many UG’s actually intend to or end up using this resource?) It seems Emory made the mistake of marketing what students already come here for, instead of what they “should” be coming here for. Just because everyone flocks to the NBB program, for example, doesn’t mean it’s great. Same goes for tracks like pre-med. But Emory made the leap and said, “It’s popular, so it must be good”. They sell it as a main attraction, and then a few years later realize that “oops, we didn’t really want this many students interested in these programs or aspects and now we want more academic diversity”, but it’s a bit late (there are also many easy classes on campus, and rest assured that many are not good). </p>
<p>Emory was only good at marketing things that were merely good in a superficial sense. I hope its current efforts are more focused on marketing the areas of actual quality. I would argue that the journalism program was probably better than many of the “popularized” selling points as they produced excellent students who went on to do great things. Of course its enrollment was low, it required an App. If they looked at happenings, course offerings, and success of graduating students within academic programs instead of popularity, their marketing scheme could be more accurate and more successful for the purpose of shaping a legit “well-rounded” class. They darned sure better get on bolstering the English dept. for example. If external media is doing it, so should internal media.</p>
<p>I thought that they were marketing the school aggressively from what I read in the news. Hiring Salman Rushdie and the Dalai Lama as professors seemed like a marketing gimmick to me. They used to be able to brag about having Jimmy Carter as a professor, but now he’s a really polarizing figure even among Democrats. So they had to get some other big names. Also, I can’t imagine that most Americans know much about Salman Rushdie or the Dalai Lama. Most of the country doesn’t have that much an interest in intellectuals or events outside the US. I think those two celebrities are more well known in Asia. They probably hired them to get more international students to apply.</p>
<p>As for cutting the econ and journalism departments, it’s not ideal but the University can’t continue on its current track and expect things to get better. The economics PhD program wasn’t that highly ranked. Most universities use their PhD programs as a way to build prestige. They can kind of boast (maybe not the right word but close) about where their PhDs got hired. PhDs are having a harder time getting jobs as professors. When I was at Emory, most of the PhDs were foreign and had heavy accents. I don’t know where they got hired, but even if you get a PhD from a top school it’s hard to get a job when schools around the country are struggling financially. There could possibly be far fewer job openings for professors in the future, not related to this recent recession. There are also government jobs for economists but those are harder than ever to get as well because of hiring freezes. I don’t think that Emory had a competitive edge there. Also, the business school takes away a lot of the qualified undergraduate students who would go into economics. Journalism is a declining field for several reasons. I don’t know much about Emory’s journalism department, but I really don’t think that Emory can attract that many intellectual students who are willing to go into a low paying career, (if they can even get a job in journalism) especially if they have to cut financial aid. Probably with all of these international students that they are admitting, the B-school will become a lot more popular. In many Asian countries hard sciences and business education are considered more “legitmate” than a liberal arts education.</p>
<p>We already have sky-high international enrollment (last 2-3 incoming classes had international % beyond 15%), which is why the b-school is already extremely popular (this is, however, an excuse in my opinion. If the econ. dept was adequately invested in, it could attract students regardless). Also, it seems more popular than sciences among the Asian students because most can’t really be pre-med, for example, and expect to stay in the US as many US med. schools absolutely will not admit international students. As for the marketing, you actually prove my point via those statements. </p>
<p>Most of the students that Emory gets can probably care less about these figures (and all of them are polarizing…), and I don’t have the feeling that these people were hired by Emory for random hype. Emory, in part, got lucky (especially Rushdie). The relationship w/the Dalai Lama actually seems to have come about in a respectable manner (from initiatives that try to bridge the gap between science and society). I think, instead of boasting that we simply have these figures, it needs to emphasize what educational/academic initiatives that were either brought about by or spawned from these relationships. Simply saying they are here is rather useless and ineffective as ultimately, students are attracted to particular programs. Having the famous faculty members associated w/the programs is honestly an extra benefit. </p>
<p>I think the b-school, in of itself is way better at marketing itself than the college or even other entities of the university. It emphasizes the things that those interested in the school (but who may not know much about it) want to hear about. Emory should, for example, use it’s youtube channel more aggressively to highlight some of its strongest academic programs from a point of view of the courses/type of coursework offered and key faculty members (don’t have to be famous, merely someone who is great in their field and/or creates an awesome learning environment for students). Some of the academic initiatives on campus also need to be further emphasized. In addition, more recent videos featuring students’ academic experiences should be featured (right now, It seems better at featuring awesome things exploited in students’ EC life, which is fine, but individual UG students w/unique academic pursuits or experiences should be highlighted far more often. The maymester video is alright, but that primarily appeals to people who already attend and is merely a revenue raising attempt). Emory could be much more effective at marketing. Perhaps the admissions offices should get in touch w/the business school.</p>
<p>This article points towards a decline in the number of jobs in academia. If schools with lower ranked PhD programs got rid of them, it would help the students who get into the remaining programs find jobs. Sad reality, but probably true.</p>
<p>Not true–not for academia at least. The students from the top PhD programs have the best job prospects, though not a guaranteed job. Getting rid of the lower ranked schools wouldn’t help students at higher ranked programs, but it seems unfair to me to admit students to seek a PhD when there is absolutely no demand for it (either in academia or in industry).</p>
<p>Sorry if my thread set some people off about Emory, I really just wanted to post and for others to post the real information you don’t get until you actually get to the school! Not everything is this wonderful picture they paint in brochures and on tours, and some potential students really forget that; this is true at literally EVERY school you are looking at. </p>
<p>If I could go back, would I honestly still pick Emory? I don’t know, but that’s ONLY because of financial issues (aka it would be a lot cheaper for me to have stayed in town and gone to my state school that 85% of my friends went to) and being thrown off at actually being challenged for once in my life in school. Because I chose Emory, I have made all-new fantastic, brilliant friends who are basically all hard workers and passionate about whatever they do on campus. I’ve already gotten a research position I could only dream of getting at my state university, which I know will be really helpful on my medical school application. If you’re looking for the b-school or nursing school, they’re hugely popular and being an Emory student obviously gives you a huge huge huge advantage on getting in. My professors are some of the most accomplished people I have ever met, and so many of them are really open about their experiences and wanting to help you. I’m going to join a sorority, which I’d never do at my state school. There are so many experiences specific to Emory that I’ve had and I’m going to have, which makes me glad I’m here. Once I have a car and Atlanta is more accessible, I’m going to love the location even more.</p>
<p>I’m a current student and I have to say, yes, Emory is really THAT bad.</p>
<p>Choosing to attend this school has honestly been one of the worst decisions I’ve ever made in my life. I’m a transfer student and many of the students here ask me why on earth I decided to trade in my place at my former college for Emory. Blame it on a temporary lapse in judgment. Honestly, the only reason I remain here is because of the proximity to my boyfriend’s house and because it’s simply too late to start over again.</p>
<p>While some of the students are great (the professors are hit or miss), the administration and its decisions are what make Emory hell. Emory gets worse and worse every year. Emory takes bureaucracy to a whole new level and you often have to jump through many hoops to get things approved (if they are approved). Emory has spent exorbitant amounts of money on construction about campus while upper class dorms e.g. Clairmont Tower remain pitiable. Changes in the campus’ construction thus far haven’t done much to improve student life and some have been detrimental to it.</p>
<p>We won’t go into the cost of Emory; it’s well-known that everything at the University is overpriced and the administration does little to help or actively denies needy students in financing their time here. I know many students with mounting debt. It is truly depressing how little Emory cares about its students beyond what it can gain from them in rankings and money. Emory would like to pretend that they are helpful, but once you’re here, you’re just a student ID number. If that.</p>
<p>Above all else Emory is concerned with (1) looking like a top college, while doing little to actually be one and (2) money. Hearing about the misreporting of scores was not a shock at all – that sounds exactly like something Emory’s administration would do. Again, Emory is concerned with appearing to be a top college and with procuring money, and will employ treacherous methods in attempts to gain these.</p>
<p>I suppose a few here will disagree with my perspective on the University; that is expected. However, I’d believe most of these have simply not had much experience with the administration or by chance, have run into the very few who are genuinely student-oriented. Consider yourself lucky.</p>
<p>I pretty much agree, but I honestly made my stay relatively enjoyable by simply ignoring the issue of prestige and not having to involve myself w/“the administration”. The problems you describe are simply the general problems of elite education today. It used to be Harvard getting criticism for such issues, now it’s places like Emory that are attempting to rise. Hopefully Emory figures out that it may be taking the wrong approach and will ultimately embarrass its way to the path of “real” success. And one must also take into account that in the midst of all the bad stuff that is occurring that gets the most press, there are indeed improvements being made (maybe not administratively) and awesome new programs added that often go unnoticed by the student body (maybe because the students don’t care to seek opps. outside of the popular ones, or because these initiatives, programs, and opps. are simply not promoted well enough for people to know about them). As for profs., that is normal and, for all its bias (can’t really be used as data but does reflect how students within a particular institution view teaching quality there), rating websites like ratemyprofessor suggest that Emory may do better than many of its peers in professor quality. It’s honestly only hit or miss when you don’t have a choice but to take a prof. because they are the only one teaching a course that you must take or because you feel you must take an “easy” professor (who often are kind of bad, especially in the sciences). This is something that students often have a lot of control over. If you take classes in depts. that are doing decently well, and chose random profs., more good will turn up than bad.</p>
<p>No $%^&. I fought a war with the Emory administration not too long ago about an issue I am not going to disclose here, obviously. (The “issue” was resolved. Then they all went silent when I just started asking questions…). But I can vouch that it is true. They treat you like expendable assets (ahh, now you know why I chose this username; or maybe I’m the only one, haha!) whenever an uncomfortable “conflict” or problem arises. They operate on a “shoot first, ask questions later” policy (for those in-the-know and have experienced this). I won’t be surprised if someone sues the university in the near future. But I hope that he sues the right department and people, though, lol. Don’t want the damn media vultures flying over here.</p>
<p><<i pretty="" much="" agree,="" but="" i="" honestly="" made="" my="" stay="" relatively="" enjoyable="" by="" simply="" ignoring="" the="" issue="" of="" prestige="" and="" not="" having="" to="" involve="" myself="" w="" “the=”" administration".="">> Easy for you and most students at Emory to say. Nobody wants any BS with the Emory administration or any “people in high places” but occasionally it happens anyway and you have to deal with it. Fortunately, most students at Emory don’t ever have to deal with those crap, and certainly not have to go through what I went through. But if I find out someone else gets pulled into BS with the administration here, I swear…</i></p><i pretty="" much="" agree,="" but="" i="" honestly="" made="" my="" stay="" relatively="" enjoyable="" by="" simply="" ignoring="" the="" issue="" of="" prestige="" and="" not="" having="" to="" involve="" myself="" w="" “the=”" administration".="">
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<p>Wow… I’m honestly not so sure how I feel about emory anymore. I’m an admitted ED student for this fall, but reading all of this really makes me want to reconsider. Is it at least a good place socially?</p>
<p>I completely agree. The professors are not the problem. There were some awful graduate students with heavy accents teaching lower level classes, but the actual professors were good and also pretty humble. However, the administration is the scum of the Earth. When you deal with them, you are scraping the bottom barrel of humanity. A friend’s younger brother was telling me about this kid Adam Smith (not the economist) who was falsely accused of anti-gay bigotry. The University threw him under the bus and basically tried to ruin his reputation. The story was picked up by the national news, kind of like a lesser version of the false Duke rape case. However, only some people in the administration are scumbags. What the majority of the people in the administration have in common is that they are lazy, incompetent morons. The website was crappy when I was at Emory, and the alumni websites are still a freaking joke. I could care less about these cuts. If anyone deserves to lose their job in this economy it’s these guys.</p>
<p>“I won’t be surprised if someone sues the university in the near future. But I hope that he sues the right department and people, though, lol. Don’t want the damn media vultures flying over here.”</p>
<p>I heard from a reliable source that someone did try to sue the University. Sam Eshagoff’s mother. Don’t know the result. I assume that there was a settlement and a confidentiality agreement. Do you wonder why this kid isn’t speaking to the press now? Would be a perfect interview, he could just say, “How is what I did any different from what the Emory administration has done in lying about it’s SAT scores”. Ask questions. The administration is full of a bunch of hypocrites. It’s full of adults who can’t take care of themselves yet try to tell adolescents how to run their lives.</p>
<p>“Fortunately, most students at Emory don’t ever have to deal with those crap, and certainly not have to go through what I went through.”</p>
<p>This helps prove my point. It’s rare that one has to deal with them in certain capacities that truly harm. Now there is some administrative corruption (normally dealing with the issue of grades or handling of students who want an incomplete or w/drawal. Things dealt with by undergrad. deans. Given the academic culture at many schools like this, it would be no surprise if such things are common at most private schools, especially the top ones) that often “benefits” individual students that should be frowned upon.</p>
<p>Trex: Just like at most elite institutions the admins do indeed know how to “take care of themselves” (as in preserve mechanisms that continually increase their pay for every reason excluding whether or not their works merit it) normally at the expense of others.</p>