Is F on a college class bad?

<p>Calm down guys. You MISSED the final. You didn't fail it, you had a scheduling conflict. IMHO, it would be much much worse if you had done all the work and the tests and ended up with an F rather than making one communication miscue. Just explain what actually happened, and if possible get a note or something saying so from either the professor himself or your guidance counselor. It's not a good situation, but I really don't think it makes you dead on arrival as people seem to be suggesting.</p>

<p>The problem the OP has is he must live in the Long Island area if he is taking a class at Stony Brook. And that is a brutally competitive area for getting into MIT (especially) and CalTech. Not having linear algebra before as a course (as my son did by ninth grade) or failing it after taking initiative to take it independently are both bad situations for applying to those colleges, besides, applying from any part of the country. </p>

<p>But the only way to apply to either of these colleges, or any other decent college, is honestly. I am not aware of ANY college that doesn't ask for transcripts of all previous secondary school and higher education courses as part of a complete application. The transcript has to go in. That grade profile will be no problem for admission at a lot of colleges where entering students don't take linear algebra, if at all, until some time in their upper division studies. But lying about previous studies is a problem for admission at every college--in the worst case, you could have your admission revoked after you have already committed to that college, when you don't have as many other options. </p>

<p>Get an explanation from the teacher of that course. She is the only person who can sound convincing on that issue. Apply to a sure-bet "safety" college--that's my standard advice to anyone who applies to Caltech </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/california-institute-technology/366128-what-safety-colleges-caltech-applicants-considering.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/california-institute-technology/366128-what-safety-colleges-caltech-applicants-considering.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>or MIT </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/366007-appropriate-safety-colleges-mit-applicant.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/366007-appropriate-safety-colleges-mit-applicant.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>and it's advice that everyone should take to heart who is applying to a highly selective college. </p>

<p>Good luck. Be sure to apply to a drop-dead certain safety college. </p>

<p>Oh, yes, also review my FAQ with links about studying mathematics at the college level. That's not like high school. </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/355458-faqs-preparing-college-math-study.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/355458-faqs-preparing-college-math-study.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I thought universities required ALL, transcripts of universities you have attended previously. It is not an option.</p>

<p>Anyway, I agree with drummerdude. </p>

<p>You might beg your professor to let you take the final exam.</p>

<p>If you were doing well before the final, it is likely the teacher would be willing to work things out with you somehow (I'd hope so anyway). I still don't understand how you missed the final. Good luck - hope it all works out.</p>

<p>I don't think it is quite as bad as everyone thinks because it was a scheduling conflict that made you fail. I think MIT will be highly sympathetic. </p>

<p>I don't remember if undergrad admissions requires all university transcripts--it seems like an odd thing to request considering that 99% of college students don't take university classes. If they are not required don't send them. Find a way to notify MIT/CalTech that you got an "A" in the class without sending a transcript. Perhaps either update them via email or ask your GC to incorporate it into your rec. Or ask for an additional rec from your calc professor.</p>

<p>I would first plead with the prof, and tell him/her that you are applying to MIT. Since they are a MIT PhD, perhaps they might be sympathetic.</p>

<p>Try to get out of this if you can. It's a college class, so it'll still be there should you apply to grad schools.</p>

<p>Yeah, sure it's something MIT might be sympathetic of, like they won't hate you or hate your family for it, but they sure aren't going to be crawling over all the other schools to get at you and your F. They have plenty of applicants who didn't fail a relatively basic college math course. Lately, MIT has been having a bigger problem than ever with freshmen failing first/second semester required classes, that's something they will definitely take into consideration.</p>

<p>
[quote]
it was a scheduling conflict that made you fail...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Unless I misread the OP's post, "scheduling conflict" is an assumption. For all that has been posted, the OP could have been (near) failing prior to the final, and just didn't show bcos s/he knew the grade was not salvageable.</p>

<p>Caltech uses the common app which specifically requests: "List all colleges/universities at which you have taken courses for credit; list names of courses taken and grades earned on a separate sheet. Please have an
official transcript sent from each institution as soon as possible."</p>

<p>MIT: "If...courses were taken outside of your high school (at....local... college or university, for example), tell us where they were taken in the "Course Title" field.
In the "Term and/or Final Grade(s)" field, list term and/or final grades for each class, as found on your school transcript (semester, trimester, quarter, final, etc.)."</p>

<p>^it could be, but we're not helping OP.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Not having linear algebra before as a course (as my son did by ninth grade)

[/quote]

...Your son took linear algebra before ninth grade?</p>

<p>99: good point, but need more info to offer much assistance. On other threads, the OP indicates that he won several national math awards, so what was the reason for this failed math class (new college teacher is not a very good excuse)? What was the cum grade prior to the final? What occurred during HS that day such that it could not be missed for a college final? What does the rest of the senior schedule look like? Does this grade reflect senior-itis?</p>

<p>Register for Linear Algebra on EPGY epgy.stanford.edu. They are pretty lax about admission and if you fax them some reasonable score report, they'll accept you. They also assume that you have the prerequisites to register for the class. They don't check. </p>

<p>You must register by Dec 22 to start Jan 1 or you will pay an extra fee. Since you already learned much of the material, you may be able to do it quickly, like in a month. Do it well. Then send the Stanford grades in ASAP. Also include an explanation of why you missed the Stony Brook final. The EPGY will show that you learned the material well and could nullify some of the sting of the Stony Brook class. </p>

<p>There are also free Linear Algebra materials on ocw.mit.edu if you want to start studying before the EPGY stuff comes.</p>

<p>This website, for all its usefulness, is also terrible sometimes. A parent suggestion all kids take linear algebra in high school, or possibly even ninth grade? I won't be taking linear algebra until my sophomore year...of college, and I'm at Duke in engineering. This is much more common. Most people do not take linear algebra in high school.</p>

<p>And half of the people who responded to this thread did not read the OP's posts, and they would have known he missed the final and has not slacked off, did poorly on the tests, skipped homework, or anything that truely indicates failing.</p>

<p>I would again ask the teacher if there is anyway you can make up the final, explaining that this F will be seen on your college applications, and if that does not work, I would speak with admissions officers at the colleges you are applying to to see what they recommend. Even if you tell an admissions officer by phone you failed it, unless you actually send it in, it won't affect your application, they won't remember/care that you told them.</p>

<p>^I took Linear Algebra as the second year in Engineering too. it's not a high school class.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Your son took linear algebra before ninth grade?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>In ninth grade. The first semester of ninth grade in his math course was the "C" topics of AP calculus BC, and the second semester was linear algebra with the COOL textbook by Otto Bretscher. Now his multivariable calculus course (tenth grade) applies a lot of the linear algebra he learned last year.</p>

<p>Remembering that the OP was talking about applying to MIT and to Caltech, here are some figures about how many young people in the United States take AP BC calculus before twelfth grade--more than enough to fill the entering classes of both of those colleges. </p>

<p>David</a> Bressoud's Launchings from the CUPM Curriculum Guide </p>

<p>Some students are admitted to each college having finished high-school-level calculus in senior year (which was a sign of a strong high school program back when I graduated, and very unusual). But a lot of students have sped up a lot in how fast they study the standard curriculum subjects--as the OP was presumably aware. You and I might both think that racing along in the death march to calculus can be a bad idea, </p>

<p>The</a> Calculus Trap </p>

<p>and there are certainly many other important aspects of mathematics to learn besides the standard curriculum topics that lead to multivariable calculus, differential equations, and linear algebra, but it doesn't hurt to do well in the standard curriculum because it is, um, standard. </p>

<p>Good luck to all of you applying this year.</p>

<p>I know that it's unusual for a high schooler to take Linear Algebra. Nonetheless, the OP did take it, and needs to explain the failure. A letter explaining missing the final may suffice, but why would they give him the benefit of the doubt with so much competition. My EPGY suggestion is the only way that I can think of to get "official" documented proof that he mastered Linear Algebra and to get that proof in time for his application cycle to MIT and CalTech. They both respect EPGY and I think an "A" from that would mitigate the Stony Brook F. I wish there were an easier way. I just can't think of any. I think he'll still be able to get into top programs with just the explanation, but the F may spook MIT and CalTech since they have so many amazing applicants that they do not need to take chances.</p>

<p>Yes, the OP can still get into some great colleges, including some of the other colleges mentioned in this thread, but his mentioned target colleges in the original post are TOUGH to get into, which is why it would be a good idea for him to submit an application to a sure-bet safety college right away, if he hasn't already.</p>

<p>xeneise:</p>

<p>You have suggested facts not in evidence. The OP never commented on whether he did or did not "slack[ed] off, did poorly on the tests, skipped homework, or anything else".... We just don't know. </p>

<p>What we do know is tha the received an F in a state Uni math class, and we do know from other posts his SAT score (2170) and he is "someone who bombed his sophomore year" and admits that frosh year "wasn't spectacular." </p>

<p>IMO, without a BIG hook, or MASSIVE extenuating circumstances, such a candidate is wasting his/her money applying to Caltech and MIT. There are just too many kids who have 4.0 gpa in both Frosh and Soph years, and who did not earn an F at a local state Uni.</p>

<p>bluebayou,</p>

<p>
[quote]
and I failed the course because the finals were during school hours, and I notified the professor too late that I cannot take it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Forgive me for inferring, but this quote seems to imply that missing the entire final (which in college level math classes, is usually 25-50% of the grade) was the cause for failing the class.</p>

<p>Xeneise, that's probably what happened, but that doesn't provide any evidence to MIT or CalTech that he really should have gotten an A or B. All they see is an F with a letter from the student or a guidance counselor. </p>

<p>He can either get the professor, the one who wouldn't even help him make arrangements to take the final at a different time, to write a letter - like that's really ever going to happen - or he can demonstrate in some other way - like do EPGY LinAlg in a month - that he learned the material well. </p>

<p>Do you see another viable option?</p>