<p>I'd like to revise my comments above: "fit" is important, but it is best determined in hindsight. The ability of high school seniors or their parents to prospectively determine "fit" is overrated. </p>
<p>With that I will stick to my observation that the higher the expectations of the student that the school they have chosen is a good "fit", the greater the likelihood of disappointment. I don't think this is because the choices are necessarily wrong -- just that the attitude going in puts more weight on preconceived expectations that the college must live up to. Students who are less concerned about "fit" or who are going to colleges that have been chosen for other reasons, such as affordability or geographic proximity toward home, are more likely to have a flexible attitude going in and to take a certain level of disappointment in stride.</p>
<p>To be honest, I think it is. I believe I can be happy as a classics major at Vassar, going to poetry readings on weekends and having square-dancing parties or as a finance major at NYU, seeing musicals on Friday night and going clubbing on the weekends. Of course, my plan already filters out conservative religious schools and large rowdy publics.</p>
<p>rofl has the right point here. There are quite a few colleges she'd fit at, including Vassar and NYU, two arty New York schools with a lot of similarities. But how would she feel at Brigham Young? Texas Christian University? Evergreen State? Worcester Polytechnic? University of Mississippi? I'm guessing she wouldn't fit at all at those schools (well, maybe Evergreen). </p>
<p>Deidre Tours - You're right about the generalizations. I'm sorry if you were offended. But life in the south, in fact life anywhere in the country is different than NYC. And yes the south is not monolithic, but there are differences that I feel NY kids need to be aware of, particularly the food, because it will be one of the first things that they notice. I'm not saying one is better than the other just to be prepared for it.</p>
<p>Reminder to myself to post a reply when I'm not tired. Short version: fit is important for some, for others not so much. My own experience is virtually diametrically opposed to CalMom's. The fit didn't give rise to unrealistic expectations; expectations were for the most part realized in spades, doubled and redoubled. </p>
<p>xStephen: fit is not just a matter of meshing with the other student's...it's only one criterion, albeit a significant one. </p>
<p>side note: While I believe in "fit," I think "geographic proximity" is one of the least worthwhile criteria to put on the list. In fact, my informal metric was just the opposite: no school within 200 miles.</p>
<p>I think we all agree is that the ability to "fit" in a certain university is student dependent. We (or should I say me, less so my husband) think alot about this for our children. It was wonderful seeing my first develop a real sense of what was important to her as we took tours of all types of schools. It was a tough year for her class (2012) with many kids going to their lower choice schools but we were fortunate that we found a match school that had everything she was looking for and so far so good.
People now are asking me for advice but all I can tell them is that tour different schools, see what is important and what is not to your kid. If you're paying attention it becomes apparent that while no school may be perfect, hopefully you'll find a school that fits most of your kids needs and hopefully they get accepted there!
The other observation I've had with other parents who's kids are unhappy after just one semester is this:
1. The kid goes to the college with "one foot out the door" already. Tell your kid to stick it out, convince them they are most likely going to stay there, so find clubs, friends, classes that they enjoy. Try not to intervene right away, let the kid work out as much as they can. Unless your kid is suffering from depression and just needs more time to adjust, make them go back for the 2nd semester. In most cases the kid ends up loving the school. If not they will at least mature and learn alot about themselves in that year and will be more successful if they end up transferring.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Don't answer your cell phone if your kid is calling alot! Teens today can call their parents any time of the day to take care of every little problem for them. When I was unhappy at college, I had to wait until Sun. afternoon 4pm when my parents called the payphone at the end of my dorm hall. By then, I had worked thru my problems on my own.<br>
Now a days, with text, and cell phones many kids have too easy access to their parents and friends the minute they have a problem. But, it is very empowering as a college student to figure it out on your own. Isn't that why we send them away to school?????
To learn how to be independent and resourseful?</p></li>
<li><p>Last, try to guide them with their college selections from the beginning. Many of the kids who were unhappy applied to schools by name only not thinking about what would be important to them. Like size, Do large impersonal lecture halls bother you, do you want interaction with professors or do you just want to sleep late, watch lectures on youtube and just take tests with 300-900 kids! Do you care about housing, living off campus, taking buses to your classes or do you want to roll out of bed and have a walkable campus? Socially, does the university have what you like, intramural sports, music, weekend activities? Academically, does the school offer different majors you might be interested in, if you are not sure about your entering major. Distance from home may be a factor. </p></li>
<li><p>Lastly, remind your kid it is a privilege to go away to school. Many young adults don't even have the option. So make the best of it! </p></li>
</ol>
<p>I think fit is one important factor among many, but its relative weight and priority will vary depending on the individual student and his/her family. In her search my D identifed a range of factors that were important to her, but they were the kind of broad, general things that calmom described -- geography, size, type of school, academic offerings.</p>
<p>Another point worth considering is that some kids who didn't particularly "fit" in high school might have a more developed sense of what they are looking for (or looking to avoid).</p>
<p>When I think of "fit," I do not think of objective facts like school size, faculty-student ratio, majors and EC's offered, etc. To me these are easily assessed and verified, and therefore are what ought to inform the student's initial list. If I'm certain I want to major in animal husbandry, there are only so many schools out there where I can do that, and so no college will even land on my list if it doesn't meet that essential critiria. A kid could be wrong about what to put on that initial list, though, yet still be able to make do. Maybe he didn't think weather was a factor, but ended up minding the cold more than he thought he would, for example. Still, he can decide to have a good attitude about it, buy warmer clothes and boots, decide to learn to ski or snowboard, and attempt to enjoy the ice and snow-related school customs. The result may not be perfect, but there is some control over the outcome.</p>
<p>To me, fit is composed of one's feelings or subjective assessments about the campus environment or the nature of the student population. To my S, "fit" was "Are there people here who I could see myself wanting to get to know or be friends with?" Now, this does not have to mean "Are there people here who are like me?", though I'm sure some kids do want that. Other kids might want to meet people who are very different from themselves or from whom they grew up with. If the student were to get this aspect of the experience wrong, it would be harder to make it work merely by having a good attitude and being open to new things. That's because it's two-way. Using the example above, the New York girl can find lots to enjoy about the South, can try to adjust her manners and way of speaking based on the cultural norms, wear pearls, etc. yet still not fit in or feel at home, and worse--be rejected by her peers.</p>
<p>I tend to agree with Calmom, though. Maybe it's like the difference between arranged marriages and marriages for "love". The latter have a higher divorce rate.</p>
<p>PS--A lack of fit might be defined as a strong conflict between the school's environment and the essence of who the student is, as opposed to just the absence of an ideal circumstance (good weather, small classes, etc.)</p>
<p>The importance of fit, and ability to optimize an initial college matriculation decision based on it, are influenced by:</p>
<ul>
<li>adaptability and temperament of the kid</li>
<li>degree one knows oneself- in a circumstance where oneself may actually change</li>
<li>degree one can accurately come to know, in advance, the school, and accurately predict what about it might actually wind up being highly relevant</li>
<li>happenstance</li>
<li>alternative available choices</li>
</ul>
<p>
[quote]
I spent lots of time on the campus of the University of South Carolina and can't recall a single instance of pearls in class. Football game attire was usually team tshirts and jeans...
[/quote]
did a picassa web search, here's your football picture with pearls :D Picasa</a> Web Albums</p>
<p>
[quote]
Maybe it's like the difference between arranged marriages and marriages for "love". The latter have a higher divorce rate.
[/quote]
That's because people who have arranged marriages do not see divorce as an option. It does not make the marriage any happier...</p>
<p>But I do agree with Calmom that kids who go for "fit" often have expectations that are almost impossible to meet, which greatly increases their chances to be disappointed.</p>
<p>Two successes here for kids who chose colleges for fit and got their first pick and are really benefitting from the exact things they chose those colleges for.</p>
<p>I am sure they could adapt to other colleges; they both are fairly adaptable. However, I do think some things are unique to the campuses they chose, and they were right in predicting that those things would be important to them.</p>
<p>My D is graduating this year, so it's a bit late to fall out of love.</p>
<p>I know we were unbelievably lucky and they would have learned different and equally vital lessons had they ended up at different schools, just as my first H was my ideal man and second H is not, but we are great friends nevertheless. (To proceed with the marriage analogy.)</p>
<p>I don't know whether fit can be reliably predicted, but I sure believe it exists. </p>
<p>My daughter was accepted at her ED school after visiting only that school, so she is extra lucky that it worked out well. We knew some things about the school looked good for her, but neither she nor her parents anticipated how happy she would be with every aspect of her life at college. Probably she would have liked other schools too, but seeing her slip so easily into her new life makes us feel lucky that she ended up at this one. It's hard to pin down, but fit is definitely a real thing.</p>
<p>I've not read all the way through (I always feel bad about that...) but wanted to add:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It matters. </p></li>
<li><p>A ton of places are likely good fits for most students. Very many campuses have so much diversity that one can find a very good fit for them personally. It also explains why the vast majority of students are very happy at where they went to school, even if it wasn't near the top of their list or their 'dream' school.</p></li>
<li><p>Beyond a campus of a certain size (2000?) its hard to consider there is 'one culture' or 'one type of student' or 'one environment' that one either fits or does not; beyond a certain size there is just too much diversity for there to be such a uniform culture and homogenous student body.</p></li>
<li><p>It matters far more to avoid a misfit than to find a fit. Fortunately I think there are far fewer places one will experience misfit.</p></li>
<li><p>It's extremely difficult to predict fit. Many of us are bad judges of predicting what will make us happy in future decisions (even more so when one is still developing). And even if we know, its very difficult to judge schools after an internet search or a day and evening visit to a campus. Its like dating once and deciding you'll live happily ever after. You have very little information to go on, its a tiny biased sample filtered through existing biases, and much can be inaccurate. But many still contend they can judge fit because they end up happy with their choice (when in reality it turns out they'd likely be happy at most places if they went there).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Reading through this thread I am amazed that most parents did not confront this issue of "fit" earlier--at least by high school. We encountered this issue starting with pre-school living in a "Private school counts" metropolitan area.</p>
<p>hey, someone just posted an article on early decision and brain maturity of teenagers that speaks to the topic here. Bottom line, many teenagers are not ready to make a decision on fit.
I know kids who did ED and are very happy. And some who transferred out.
I agree that how this all works out is dependent - somewhat - on the student.
But I do wonder about the impact of the marketing machine. I know kids who INSISTED that was there only ONE good match for them. In some cases, the chosen school was the most expensive option and created a burden financially for the family. And usually, it was a BRAND school. So, to me, this sounds like a spoiled child...but that's just my perspective. There have to be a least a few options out there that meet a student's needs. Just one? I don't think so. But then, I see flexibility as a virtue...and a life skill.</p>