<p>Who really cares if you aren't convinced or not, both sides of the story has been given in this thread and many others. If all of that isn't enough then there's nothing much left to say.</p>
<p>Like I said, it's like saying you hate eating cheeseburgers without ever eating one, but heard from someone that it tastes disgusting. Only when you have eaten a cheeseburger could you then have the position to point out exactly why cheeseburgers taste bad without other people thinking you have no idea what you are talking about.</p>
<p>Until you've eaten a cheeseburger, you won't understand what we are saying until you've tasted one no matter how well we describe the taste.</p>
<p>A pattern that I've noticed amongst my friends is that those that don't join a fraternity end up being best of friends with the people they live with in the dorm freshmen year. So there's already a circle of friends for those who don't want to "pay for friends."</p>
<p>"Btw who really cares if you aren't convinced or not, both sides of the story has been given in this thread and many others. If all of that isn't enough then there's nothing much left to say."</p>
<p>you guys care. that is why you guys are getting so defensive. ;)</p>
<p>I know I said I was done, but good post unlimited. You're not as bad as I thought...okay that sounds harsh, but it's a good thing.</p>
<p>The reason why I commented about that was of some of the other posts, which might have been yours (I'm too lazy to look back, which says a lot cause it's only one page...lol), but yeah...it just gave off this bad vibe. Anyways, it's cool. I understand that you didn't mean it that way. Maybe a part of me just wants to side with people that are anti-frat because I have no arguements pro-frat since I'm not in one, but have seen (and heard) some bad **** associated with fraternities on my campus.</p>
<p>No actually I really don't about whether you are convinced or not.</p>
<p>What I do care is that I hope incoming freshmen will not read negative threads like this on the internet and shut themselves off from pledging a fraternity, which may be one of the best decisions that one could make. So I'm here to balance out such a negativity.</p>
<p>I'm done as well with this thread. Hopefully incoming freshmen will read my comments and realize that fraternities are much, much more than just parties.</p>
<p>What jags stated in his last post was accurate. Joining a Greek letter organization does not equal paying for friends. It costs money to keep any organization up and running. Because of the need for GLOs to keep their infrastructure intact, each organization has to charge their members dues in order to stay afloat. I don't know about anyone else's chapter, but in my chapter (of which I am the treasurer) member dues go to pay for things such as national dues, insurance, programs, and events. They do not go to paying for friends period. As for what happens when Siblings don't pay their dues, nothing. They're still members of my organization (for life) and therefore my Siblings despite their inability to pay dues.</p>
<p>"The answer is YES. The notion is simple; if you don't have a lot of money, you aren't picked. And there's no such thing as awarding scholarships or waiving dues"</p>
<p>Not true. Mine has received scholarships in the past two years. Again why do you care? you should go have a great life and make stuff about something you have a real idea about.</p>
<p>"And opie, if it makes you feel better, I'll apologize for not sharing your beliefs, because obviously associating disliking frats with racism and sexism is reasonable thought..."</p>
<p>well, I've yet to see anyone from a frat system post here along the same lines some have. I haven't seen any frat members coming out with an I'm better than you post. My point above is sterotypes exist because people are unwilling to learn more about something, so they bad mouth it. They lump it together with unrealistic and unmeetable expectations. </p>
<p>as far as your take of the one posters comment "never will be" I think he is just simply saying because you won't try. Are you assuming they're rejecting you or your rejecting them? </p>
<p>You don't have to share my beliefs anyway. That's not the point. Outright rejection without investigation limits the critic.</p>
<p>"You don't have to share my beliefs anyway. That's not the point. Outright rejection without investigation limits the critic."</p>
<p>Let me add to this. I was very much against mine joining. I thought the same things, heard the same rumours, read the same crap. I never was in a frat, worked my ass off to finish college on my own working full time and attending fulltime. My only experience with a frat was animal house. </p>
<p>Well, I went and saw for myself, I watched, I asked questions, I saw how they handled life. I found they pretty much were like the generic college kid makeup.. they do smart things, dumb things, nice things, bad things. They have loans, girlfiends, good classes and bad. Some are the nicest guys you'd ever meet, others are just d icks. In other words, they're just kids in college. </p>
<p>Why you guys want to label people a few degrees different than yourselves and that worries me. It's not that far removed from skin color or gender labels. You want to be caught up in how different they are from "you" that you refuse to see anywhere where you're alike. Whose loss is that?</p>
<p>I feel like frats/sororities are, for whatever reason, a touchy topic for some--but translating the issue into a less emotionally charged analog is a helpful way to think about it. So, it might be easier to look at the question of whether frats are "pay per friend" by comparing it to something similar:</p>
<p>At my school, students have to pay quarterly dues to join a club sport team, because the school doesn't give the clubs enough money to cover uniforms/tournament registration fees/travel/etc. (The dues for the women's teams, at least, tend to be a little more than half of what my sorority dues are each quarter, partly because the teams do recieve some subsidies from the school). Like Greeks, they have some scholarships available to them if they can't pay full dues each quarter, and also have the option of working out a payment plan (eg: $20 from your paycheck for 4 weeks, instead of a $80 lump). In the end, though, if they don't pay their dues through either scholarship or their own money, they can't stay on the team. So, if Greeks are "buying friends" because they have to pay dues, are club rugby, lacrosse, ultimat frisbee, and other such athletes also "paying for friends/teammates"?</p>
<p>(Most people, I think, would not feel that the club athletes are paying for their friends!)</p>
<p>Friendship is a benefit (among about about a billion others) conferred to fraternity members, to be a member you have to pay dues. But here's the kicker, I have a lot of friends who weren't in my fraternity...so it's not like it's an exclusive benefit. </p>
<p>Name me one other national or international organization in which you gain the benefits of membership without paying dues. I'm a member of the American Medical Association and have to pay dues in order to gain all the stuff I get from them. It's the exact same thing. Hell, you pay to live in the dorms and most people make their first friends there.</p>
<p>And if I paid for my friends then I surely got one hell of a bargain.</p>
<p>Tenniscraze, why haven't you answered my questions in your anti-fraternity thread?</p>
<p>I get a kick out of individuals who have gone through the college admissions process...kissed the ass of admission officers, study real hard for the SAT's, choose from the schools that selected them(sounds like rush...huh?) and wipe out dad's account so they can live on campus and enjoy all the social aspects college has to offer. These same people will complain about greeks who "buy" their friends. Well, who told them to go away to school and live on campus? There are plenty of great state schools all over the country to commute to...for that matter, why not community college then?...I suppose these Greek hating "I never buy my friends" types would rather be partying in dorms on a campus with a name of a school that'll look impressive on a resume than living at home with mom and dad and going to a local school with no local keg party.</p>
<p>Believe it's not because I'm worried about your opinions and your criticisms of the greek system.</p>
<p>it's because being in my fraternity was one of the best decisions of my life. It was and, as an alumnus, continues to be one of the most beneficial and joyous connections in my life (saying this after having an awesome night goning to the bars with about 8 of my pledge brothers I haven't seen in over 6 months). Do you like people criticizing something that you hold dear?</p>
<p>The other thing is that there are many students who as HS students have no real idea of what greek life is all about. I was in the same boat as a HS senior, and know that had I been super involved in a site like this, it might have influenced my feelings towards joining a chapter. Because the fraternity is such an important part of my life, I want to make sure that there is a counterpoint to all the Greek bashing, especially for something as ridiculous as the "paying for friends" argument. I want people to have that same positive experience I had.</p>
<p>wow I really did...I really shouldn't post after a night like last night...</p>
<p>I think what I was trying to say is that I get defensive not because I'm trying to change opinions. I may think them unfounded, and try to open others up, but in the end I'm not going to worry myself over making converts. I do care about making sure that younger students have an equal representation in discussions such as this so they can make a decision on their own.</p>
<p>let me stress again that im not for or against frats. it is just something that i keep on hearing amongst different groups of people... that its about "people who pay for friends."</p>
<p>"it is just something that i keep on hearing amongst different groups of people... that its about "people who pay for friends"</p>
<p>Proton,</p>
<p>As you go out in the real world you're going to run into alot of different groups of people who say alot of mean things about other people they know nothing about. What you have to decide is do you belong to this group? </p>
<p>You've implied your neutral on the issue, but from your starting "convice me" post, I haven't got that feel about somebody who actually wants to learn anything. I listed how I felt before, what I did to investigate and the conculsion I came to. </p>
<p>You're not going to find anything here that going to help you except what several besides myself have said... go see for yourself.. ask questions.,, observe behavor. Think of it as a cultural experiment, compare and contrast groups. Until you look foryourself... everything is second hand information. </p>
<p>Go check out your own school's greek system. Check into some service clubs, club sports, campus organizations. Open your mind, the rest is easy.</p>
<p>Pledging for a fraternity is really one of the best decisions one can make as a freshmen. If you aren't too sure about pledging, you can always wait until Spring semester to pledge, after go to the various parties the fraternities throw, and by spring semester you will have an idea of which ones you might be interested in after learning more about their reputation.</p>
<p>Worst that can happen is that you decide to de-pledge, which can be a good thing since you gave yourself the chance to find out that being in a fraternity is not for you, instead of living the rest of you life thinking "what if I did join one?"</p>
<p>After you graduate, you won't remember the times when you spent the nights studying at the library or how you aced that physics final. What you are going to remember most about college are those nights you stay up with your friends just talking about the most random things, late-night drives with your brothers to grab food, watching football at the stadium with your buddies and yelling your lungs out when it's OT and all the little things. I mean, you'd want to be able to tell your children about all the fond memories you have of college to them instead of how you studied. hard. in the library, right?</p>
<p>also the connections that a fratenity offers can be incredible if you take advantage of them.</p>
<p>Ehh, I agree all Freshman should at least rush. There are no downsides: you get to do a bunch of free stuff (go to games, out to eat, laser tag, bowling, etc.) and meet a bunch of people with no strings attached. I'm really regretting quitting rush, because in retrospect it's something I think I would have enjoyed...</p>
<p>Ehh, well technically I'm still in it, but I didn't go to to many of the functions and the frat I wanted to get into was really competitive, I could probably get bids from some if I wanted (one for sure), but I only liked one a lot. It was stupid to not have gone to more functions and such...</p>