Is going to UC-B for Computer Science too risky?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>What percentage of intended L&S Computer Science students are actually admitted to the major? </p>

<p>EECS website says that to even be considered, you have to have at least a 3.0 GPA on the 7 required prerequisites. (CS 61A,61B,61C,70 and Math 1A,1B,54) </p>

<p>After reading various comments on College Confidential, I've been led to think that at least some of these prerequisites are incredibly difficult weeder classes with a curved grading that results in less than half the students getting a B. Some posts had stories of classes having less than a 50% passing rate, even! One poster (bsd) said that some CS classes require 30 hours a week of studying, for just one class! I can't imagine how any non-godlike student could manage to get a B or greater in all of their classes if they had to study an average of 60 hours per week all semester.</p>

<p>Is it true that less than half of intended CS students actually end up being able to even enroll in CS as a major? If so, why do these students not instead enroll in a school that they'll have a much greater chance of actually graduating? </p>

<p>I'm a CC Freshmen (older adult - dropped out of a good tech school due to illness many years ago) trying to plan my course-load appropriately for Computer Science prerequisites for a UC transfer. The UC's vary a lot in their articulation agreements for CS prerequisites, so I'm trying to pick out 1-3 UC's to try to aim for specifically. </p>

<p>UC-Berkeley sounds ideal if I managed to be admitted there, but I'm definitely not of the academic level of the top 1% of students that actually have an excellent chance of being admitted to the major. My #1 goal is a CS degree, not a UC-B degree... so should I just forget about UC-B altogether?</p>

<p>My previous school was ranked high and not easy but A's in math & science could be had by good (not top 1%) students by putting in a good effort. From what I read from some of the posts here though, Berkeley sounds like it would be 100x more difficult.</p>

<p>Sorry for the long rambling post. I'm happy to hear any comments about the L&S CS program and about how (in)accurate some of my interpretations are.</p>

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<p>I think you’re blowing it out of proportion. I’m EECS (transfer, now senior), but it shares a lot of classes with L&S CS.</p>

<p>You can find past grade distributions on schedule builder: <a href=“https://schedulebuilder.berkeley.edu/explore/department/FL/2013/53”>https://schedulebuilder.berkeley.edu/explore/department/FL/2013/53&lt;/a&gt;
A majority of students will get a B in CS classes, though it looks like lower division courses are starting to skew towards giving out more A’s. In the past, classes have been curved to a B/B-, with ~50% of the students being in the B range, and only a small handful (~5%) failing. I’ve never heard of a class having a 50% fail rate here, though I did all my math requirements at a CC.</p>

<p>How many hours per week you’ll be studying depends on what classes you’re taking, and how long it takes you to work through things. This past week, I’ve probably spent more than 30 hours each on graphics and machine learning, but they both had big projects due, and it’s definitely more time that I’d usually spend on those classes. Some classes (like algorithms) will consistently take 10-20 hours to completely weekly problem sets, others are much less work (like AI) and might only take 2 hours a week if there’s no project (if there’s a project, add 10 hours). Basically, it depends on the class. 20 hours a week is definitely on the high side of what to expect per class, though some students need to study more and many can get away with less. It’ll also depend on your personal strengths. But so long as you don’t take more than 2 or 3 upper div CS classes together, you should be okay.</p>

<p>Also, I find it really hard to believe that half of the L&S CS students can’t get in… especially if you’re coming through the CC route, I’d expect you to have a fairly strong CS background already, and not be in big trouble when 61A rolls around. Also, if you’re not able to maintain a B average in the lower division classes… well, CS might not be your thing… just saying. Some popular alternatives for students that don’t get into L&S CS are cog sci or math, I think. There’s also a CS minor, which should be much easier to declare.</p>

<p>Oh, and for pre-reqs, the first step is to figure out what you want to apply as! There are two CS programs here… L&S CS is the BA. You’d enter undeclared and have to go through that whole mess to be CS. The pre-reqs are more humanities/IGETC oriented. EECS is in CoE, and you’d be admitted directly to your major. Admissions into UCB are a bit tougher, but you’d definitely get your major. The pre-reqs for EECS are more technical, and you’d have to take lots of math and physics. Both programs are equally good if you’re a software person, but EECS is definitely better if you’re interested in EE/CE. But you can only apply to one major, and the pre-reqs are pretty different, so make sure you’re on the right track for whichever one you choose. :P</p>

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<p>If you are at a California CC, you can check CC course coverage of UC and CSU courses at <a href=“http://www.assist.org”>http://www.assist.org</a> . If you want to try for Berkeley L&S CS or EECS, Laney has CS 61A and Diablo Valley has CS 61C, both hard to find at CCs (both have CS 61B, which is not everywhere, but not as hard to find at CCs).</p>

<p>Were you in good standing at your former school when you left? If so, can you be readmitted to finish there?</p>

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<p>Thank you both failure622 and ucbalumnus very much for your replies!</p>

<p>I did not know about the grading stats on schedule builder… that’s great. I wonder what the stats would be if they added those who dropped the class. Only 60-70% of students in the CS prerequisites get a B or better, which is what is needed to enroll in the major. If adding those who dropped the class because they couldn’t handle it, it does seem like maybe only 50% are getting in. </p>

<p>Though I hear what you’re saying: “if you’re not able to maintain a B average in the lower division classes… well, CS might not be your thing…” … if I wouldn’t be able to cut it for CS at UC-B then I probably wouldn’t at UC-D or UC-SC either, I’d imagine.</p>

<p>I wonder if they factor in your prerequisite grades that were taken at a CC or if they only count the few prerequisites taken at UC-B to determine your “prerequisite GPA”. It would equate to far less risk if they did, if I averaged +3.5gpa on 3-4 of the prerequisites at a CC. </p>

<p>I was thinking EECS would be almost impossible to get into! But the difference is good to know. I’d prefer the L&S track but I’d much rather have to “pass the test” with all the prerequisites at CC for EECS. Better to be rejected for the major before I get to Berkeley so I can choose an alternate school rather than get into UC-B and risk getting stuck in L&S limbo. I might aim for UC-D because the prerequisites are much more easily covered and the admissions are a lot more straightforward with the TAG guarantee and all. </p>

<p>Thanks ucbalumnus, I think I had written that down in my notes from reading you post that before actually. :slight_smile: It seems:</p>

<p>CS61B is <em>mostly</em> articulated at SRJC, Cosumnes, Sacramento City, and some other schools. (still requires refresher course)
CS61A & CS 61B at Laney.
CS61B & CS61C at Diablo Valley.</p>

<p>My former school is an option but unlikely. The costs of attendance for me would be a lot higher than at a UC after financial aid is factored in. It’s in my current state but my partner and I intend to move to California (her home) sometime in the next 14 months. I plan on taking online CCC classes this first year and moving early enough to be an in-state resident by the time I hope to transfer to a UC. The only reason I bring up UC’s and not CSUs is because CSU cost of attendance would be far higher for me as I did not graduate from a California high school.</p>

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<p>You should check the CSU costs of attendance and net price calculators before assuming anything about their costs. For students not getting financial aid, the CSU out-of-state price is competitive with UC in-state price. For California resident students getting high financial aid, usually CSU commuter < UC < CSU resident in prices shown by net price calculators.</p>

<p>Be sure to read the California residency-for-tuition rules very carefully. Note that CCs also have additional out-of-state tuition.</p>

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<p>Several things to consider:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It’s still possible to get admitted with lower than a 3.0 GPA, but it’s not guaranteed and depends on your personal statement.</p></li>
<li><p>Lower division CS classes are mostly not curved. I know for certain that 61A and 61B are not curved (e.g. people dropping the class doesn’t hurt you). I believe 61C is uncurved as well. I know that one of the two CS 70 professors does not curve either. However, these professors still usually hit their “intended” class average.</p></li>
<li><p>I’ve heard that UCSD is the second best compsci UC.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>

Again, remember that it’s an average. If you get a C in one class, well, that A you got last semester will help balance it out. The classes vary pretty drastically, it’s unlikely for someone to get the same grades in all of them (except for the hopelessly lost, and those who are way too smart).</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure they don’t factor in your pre-Berkeley GPA. When you get here it’s a clean slate… your old grades don’t matter, and your GPA is based solely on Berkeley classes. And yes, that sucks because classes here are hard.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/csugrad/preparingtoapply.shtml”>http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/csugrad/preparingtoapply.shtml&lt;/a&gt; has some information for transfer students. You may want to ask the department specifically how your grades in courses taken at CC and grades in courses taken after transfer are considered in declaring the L&S CS major.</p>