Is Harvard possible for me?

I’m an Asian girl with a 3.77 unweighted GPA, 3.88 weighted. 1590 new SAT, 36 ACT, 800 SAT Math 2, 800 SAT Physics, 800 SAT Chem, 800 SAT French. Couple of 5s, 4s and 3s in APs (3 AP classes sophomore year, 2 junior year, 3 or 4 senior year). National qualifier and state champion in debate/forensics, concertmistress of the highest orchestra in my school, president of feminism club, lead roles in a bunch of plays/musicals. A couple of selective summer programs (civic leadership institute, particle physics research internship, research at a molecular bio lab). Some pretty prestigious awards (Yale university book award, national speech and debate association academic all-american, university of kansas chancellor’s top scholar). NHS, tutoring, lots of volunteering. Maxed out in math in my sophomore year (took ap calc bc), so went to university of kansas for math classes since then. I want to study chemistry and physics, maybe also politics/government. I’m going to be a senior in the fall and wondering if harvard is a real option with my mediocre GPA and test scores. It’s my dream school

Unless those stats place you at THE ABSOLUTE TOP of your class, the answer is no! Unfortunately, Asian students are held to a higher standard: https://studentsforfairadmissions.org/wsj-the-new-jews-of-harvard-admissions-asian-americans-are-rebelling-over-evidence-that-they-are-held-to-a-much-higher-standard-but-elite-colleges-deny-using-quotas/

Bad news: Your GPA probably will keep you out of Harvard (and Stanford).

Good news: There are a very large number of very strong universities where you will do very well. There is no reason that you need to go to Harvard (or Stanford).

It all depends on your class rank. Does your 3.77 unweighted GPA place you in the top 5% of your class? I did not know my exact class rank, only that I was in the top 10%. I had a 3.85 unweighted GPA and got wait listed.

Yale book prize is not prestigious. It’s an in-school award, right, the kind you get at an assembly?

Everything looks great except GPA. If lower than scores would predict it might indicate lower work ethic, unless your school is very rigorous in grading.

Why is Harvard your dream school? Do you know much at all about other schools? Are you parents pushing Ivy League schools?

I think Harvard is an absolute dream for everyone, but based on your interests it might not actually be the best fit. I’d look into places with incredible programs for your major, not just places with esteem like the Ivies. Yes, this is an Ivy Leagues thread, but I’d advise you to look into places with really great physics and/or political programs. Who knows? Maybe a smaller or less competitive school has a special opportunity academically or otherwise that absolutely dazzles you. Harvard is great generally, but they might not be able to offer you the opportunities that, say, a Cal State school can, because they have a practical approach in all majors, especially STEM, that affords you work experience and some amazing research opportunities rarely offered at other colleges (I’m just speaking from my area of expertise, which is CA schools).

I advise you to look at other places because I chose which schools I wanted to attend based on what they had to offer me as an English major interested in double majoring and possibly concentrating in creative writing, not necessarily based on their name recognition. Some fantastic schools, like UC Berkeley, don’t have programs that I personally want to participate in, even though they may be perceived as the “best.” College is a tailor-made experience. It won’t fit you if you just take the cookie-cutter option and deal with the lumps. Since you’re paying for it, put in the work to make it the best experience possible.

You always have to be realistic and know where you can get in, and at such competitive schools like the Ivies it’s always a roll of the dice. Sometimes very diverse students with less than average GPAs or test scores are accepted. That’s why each school has a range of percentiles. Harvard admissions is building a graduating class; they don’t want a ton of people who are exactly the same. They seek out diversity in all aspects of the app. Unfortunately, your demographic is even more competitive than most regardless of the college you attend (they say they’re racially/ethnically blind but there’s an unspoken understanding of diversity quotas they need to fill). Best of luck to you, but I’d consider looking elsewhere not just because of your GPA, but because of your intended major(s).

If you want to study chemistry and physics, then you will want go to graduate school. In that context, your undergraduate degree will be a check-box item. Go to a good college (and you’ll get into plenty of good colleges) that fits your financial situation and where you feel comfortable and can be happy. Harvard might very well not be that place, even if you get in. And while I’m giving gratuitous advice, I’ll say consider very carefully what you want to do eventually besides “study physics and chemistry.” You get to study (and enjoy) physics and chemistry while studying engineering, and an undergraduate engineering degree is a fine terminal degree–whereas a career in physics or chemistry is probably a good 7+ years down the road after you get your BS/BA (grad school + postdoc).

@aspiringauthor7 Obviously Harvard is lacking in engineering, but it is quite stellar in physics and usually dominates the rankings alongside Stanford and MIT. One of the best undergraduate physics programs in the nation, really.

@neoking to me, the Ivies are liberal arts colleges, and it sounds like @asdkhl should be at a research college based on their interests at the moment. To @asdkhl , if you’re not entirely sure, but you’re starting in the STEM direction to see what you like, that’s totally fine! There’s zero shame in switching your major however many times you must until you find a program you love. But I would personally choose a school that afforded me more backup options just in case I hated my major. If I were you, I’d at least look into other schools that are more research-based because of your area of study. Harvard is an other-worldly institution, but it’s not the right place for everyone. If you tour it, find programs you want to be in, and get in, then more power to you. But don’t force yourself to love it because it’s Harvard.

@aspiringauthor7 Yes, but Harvard IS a research university, and in physics it is a research powerhouse. Please don’t misinform OP by telling him or her that Harvard physics may be lackluster in its opportunities for research.

Now you are absolutely right, Harvard is not amazing at everything, and if OP ever decides to go into engineering, other schools would be more suitable. But in the pure and applied sciences, including physics, chemistry, and biology, Harvard is one of the best research institutions in the world.

@neoking I’m not aiming to misinform anyone, though to be fair this is a forum primarily made up of students and parents; very few are admissions officers or experts in the admissions process. We’re all using our common knowledge, experience, and research to help each other. So I’ve given my advice and you’ve given yours, and hopefully OP will come to a conclusion that satisfies them and aids them in their journey to a college of their choosing. That’s all I set out to do. I hope my comments have been of some use, and I wish @asdkhl luck!

“Yes, but Harvard IS a research university, and in physics it is a research powerhouse. Please don’t misinform OP by telling him or her that Harvard physics may be lackluster in its opportunities for research.”

But it is not unusual for high school kids who say “physics or math” to end up in university wanting to do “engineering”. I personally wouldn’t go to Harvard for engineering. Not that it would be terrible, but there are better choices for engineering, which in many cases are excellent for physics and math also.

All of which might be semi-beside the point if OP doesn’t get into Harvard, other than to point out that there are other schools that she can get into which would also be very good choices (and that some of us would prefer, and some of us would not, if it were our choice).

By the way, in the original post OP says “…wondering if harvard is a real option with my mediocre GPA and test scores.” 1590 out of 1600 on the SAT, with four 800’s on subject tests does not count as anything other than “superb”.

MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Don’t assume facts not in evidence. Since the OP states that s/he wants to study chem and physics, don’t assume engineering.

I think that’s it’s a misplaced modifier. I think s/he meant to say “wondering if harvard is a real option with my test scores and mediocre GPA.” Although a 3.77 GPA is not “mediocre,” it’s less disingenuous than how the sentence was written. Of course, I may be ignoring my own advice by assuming. :slight_smile:

Of course, the OP has not returned since posting, so all this may be academic.

According to the College Board’s website (http://www.collegeboard.com/html/academicTracker-howtoconvert.html), a 3.77 unweighted GPA is equal to a 90-92 on a 1-100 scale. While that certainly is not mediocre, does that GPA place the OP in the top 10% of their graduating class? If not, the OP’s chances are significantly reduced.

In addition, it’s also worth noting that the OP’s unweighted 3.77 GPA is out of sync with their perfect 36 ACT, which begs the question: Why isn’t the OP’s GPA higher, as their test scores certainly indicate they are a top test taker and could have done better in school. That is going to be a red flag in Admissions unless the OP’s guidance counselor reports the OP’s GPA is one of the highest ones in their graduating class.

@gibby I’m not arguing that a 3.77 will be difficult for Harvard; I’m saying that it is not “mediocre.” Plenty of kids whose “dream school” is far less selective than HYPMS would be thrilled with a 3.77. Despite what one thinks from reading College Confidential, the vast majority of college-bound students are targeting schools other than HYPMS.

BTW, I was not chancing the OP, as I view chancing for any school that has a <10% acceptance rate as folly.

Having said that, commenting on the GPA out of context assumes facts not in evidence. As you mentioned, there are cases where that GPA will place a student in the top 10%. e.g. Andover, Exeter, many HS’s outside the US, etc. But as I also said, the OP vanished, so the whole original post may have been a hit-and-run posting.

Asian students are held to a higher standard no doubt, so you’ll need to get your GPA up. But, that said, I think the key is to distinguish yourself from other female Asian girls (your demographic) who are your biggest competitors. Unfortunately, Asian girls have the highest GPAs and SAT scores. My daughter who is Asian got Waitlisted, and was happy to go to another college. PM me, I have some tips for you.













@gibby you are right, for asian kids this is reality. I hope someday it changes, but it is wishful thiniking.

thanks for all the insight. to answer some questions: my gpa is (relatively) low due to personal issues i faced sophomore year: my sister/best friend was diagnosed with brain tumor, and i let myself spiral after that. i’m writing my common app essay on how her diagnosis led me to join a research team studying RNA interference (a potential cancer cure) at my local university. my gpa does NOT put me in top 10%, in fact it’s barely top 25%. i want to go to harvard because a) diverse programs that you can modify and tailor to your desire b) lots of research opportunities c) need-based aid to be honest.

btw, i’m really not interested in engineering