<p>My son is a HS Junior. He took the SAT's in the fall and scored 690 CR, 760 M, 750 W, SAT II's BIO (9th grade) 680, MATH I 780, MATH II 800. He is in all honors and AP classes. He got a 5 AP STAT in 10th grade, this year he is taking Calc BC and AP US History - he hopes to get a 5 on both AP's. He has a 3.9 Weighted GPA. He gets A's in music, math, and electives, and B's, B+'s in other academic subjects. He is in Youth Orchestra, Jazz band, made District Band, captain of Academic Team, plays golf and baseball. He has just begun his college search is aiming for some VERY high schools - MIT, Carnegie Mellon and some Ivies. Is he shooting too high? He obviously is bright but he is not a straight A student and he hasn't invented anything while in High school ;) - so I'm not sure that he's Ivy material. He's interested in majoring in math and music (or pursuing music while majoring in math). I'd love some suggestions/feedback. Thanks!</p>
<p>I say absolutely not. Your son is obviously very proficient academically and while a 4.0 UW GPA is always helpful for a resume, it is certainly not a necessary requirement for getting into an Ivy League school. In addition, your son seems to be extremely involved. Make sure that he continues to pursue his extracurricular interests throughout his senior year. Having some significant achievements to speak of within those activities never hurts either. On an aside, be sure that he does pursue some schools that may not be as high-powered as the ones he is currently looking at. These so called "safety schools" are important just to ensure that he has somewhere to go should he not see the results he would like from his other schools. For this, it is a great idea to talk to either a college counselor or a school guidance counselor for suggestions. They will be able to help you select schools that will fit your son's interest as far as size, majors, etc. Hope this helps and I wish you and your son the best of luck! It seems as though he is on a great track.</p>
<p>He seems very on track for some of the top schools. Again like saxophonegirl mentioned, I would suggest a few safeties for him if I were you. Maybe a few top LAC's would be good.</p>
<p>I also agree that he is on track. Oberlin, Rochester, Rice, and Johns Hopkins have good music programs or combined programs with music schools. Hopkins could be a great choice. He should look at Caltech and Harvey Mudd if interested at all in the west coast. Northwestern also has a great music program in addition to math.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with having reaches (MIT and Ivies) on the list --- he's shooting high but not too high. Make sure he has safeties or "very likelies" that he'd be happy about attending. And add some "lesser" reaches with excellent music and math programs, such as Rice and Northwestern. U of Rochester also, which might be a very likely. </p>
<p>The wisest advice I've ever gotten on CC is to do the college search from the "bottom up," that is, to spend as much time researching and finding something to love about colleges that are less selective (the safeties and matches) as you do on the easy-to-adore reaches.</p>
<p>If your HS subscribes to Naviance you should run his scores and GPA to see where similarly situated students have been accepted in the past. While your S's SAT scores are in line with most highly selective colleges, his GPA is not. If as you state he only gets As in math among academic subjects, that would mean his UW academic GPA is probably no higher than a 3.3 (B+). That will most likely be the limiting factor to admission to the most selective colleges where the transcript will always be the most important factor.</p>
<p>U of Rochester sounds like a fit. It has the Eastman School nearby.
Case Western also has a music school nearby.</p>
<p>He is not aiming too high. Which Ivies interest him? Music theory or music performance. A couple of the Ivies grant certificates in music performance.</p>
<p>U Rochester, if he is really into music performance. </p>
<p>I happen to like Cornell for Math. They have a decent music program too.</p>
<p>I have to disagree with some of the other posters. Frankly, based on the results of kids I know I'd say MIT and the Ivies are very unlikely with many Bs in academic subjects. No harm in adding a couple to the list, though. The one way to make sure you don't get in is to not apply. :) If he can pull As in his junior year his chances would improve.</p>
<p>Of the kids I know, to give you some idea, one very bright kid with a similar academic profile and scores but weaker ECs got into Northeastern (rejected from MIT, Olin, Harvard). Kid with somewhat stronger profile--both academically and in similar ECs--got in to Carnegie Mellon and Tufts and others I can't recall, but rejected from MIT. Another kid at the top of his class in a private school with music ECs and top scores and grades was just deferred/rejected from MIT ED. One kid I know who got in to MIT was val with straight-As, better scores, and better music ECs. It's tough out there. :( Obviously, this is anecdotal evidence, but these happen to be kids I know pretty well.</p>
<p>U of Rochester seems like a great fit. Carnegie Mellon and Tufts seem like reasonable reaches. Do you have any good instate choices?</p>
<p>You have not mentioned rank and competitive level of his school. You typically would not see many B's on a transcript of a successful ivy candidate. A few are fine, but if he's gotten B's year after year in academic classes except math, an ivy is probably a very high reach. Disregard that if he has a very high class rank.</p>
<p>The bottom line at most ivies is that you need to be in the top few of your class for a real shot if you have no hook. I would also suggest he take the SAT again to get the CR score into the 700's for a good shot at the next tier.</p>
<p>All that said, it's worth throwing in a few applications because there may be something in his profile (specifics of his music maybe?) that would make him of interest at ivies and help him defy the odds.</p>
<p>Admissions counselors take into account the difficulty of the courses, the standards at the high school, the amount of time dedicated to extracurriculars. The high SATs and extracurriculars will outweigh the B grades.</p>
<p>He should be in the top 10% of his class. Unfortunately, his B's are due to not doing the homework, etc. He generally does VERY well on tests. Last year he got a 100% on the Physics final but only a B+ in the class because he did not do the homework. He is very involved in extracurricular's and excels at things that interest him and involve him. If he finds the homework to be busy work and he fully grasps the subject without having to do the homework, then he doesn't bother. Thanks for the feedback above. I too think it's important to find some "safeties" but before we begin our looking at schools I wondered if it's even worth making visits to MIT, etc.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Admissions counselors take into account the difficulty of the courses, the standards at the high school, the amount of time dedicated to extracurriculars. The high SATs and extracurriculars will outweigh the B grades.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not at MIT and Ivies, they won't. They EXPECT the most difficult courseload and a lot of time devoted to extracurriculars, plus high scores, high grades, and high class rank. </p>
<p>If I told you that a kid had a circa-95 UW average (school does not rank, but clearly top 10%), the most difficult possible courseload (8 APs including chem, bio, physics, calc bc and two languages; all honors wherever available; maximum number of academic courses every year PLUS independent study AP); 3-season athlete all 4 years (mostly varsity, sometimes qualified for states); instrumentalist in regional youth symphony, special by-audition workshops, district, and all-state orchestras; multiple state and national awards in two languages; CTY 4 summers; NHS; NMF; Presidential Scholar Semifinalist (2310 SAT); 5s on all AP exams; all SATIIs over 700; excellent essays and recs from teachers at least one of whom said "most intellectually outstanding student I ever had"--how do you think that student's chances compare to the OP's bright and talented son?</p>
<p>jsmom, I would not start at the top. Start at safety/match schools, and give him a chance to fall in love with them first.</p>
<p>Also see if you can convince him that his grades this year REALLY MATTER despite his low opinion of the work he is asked to do. I know how hard that can be. :( My son was first in the state on a national subject exam, and getting a B+ in the class due to not turning in homework that he thought beneath him.</p>
<p>I agree Consolation. My kids and friend's kids have gone to the most competitive high schools in the Country and have taken the toughest classes. None of them, without a hook, got into any top college with many B's. And I don't believe anything outweighs an important stat at the ivies and similar, they have too many applicants with every duck in a row.</p>
<p>I wont delve into specific colleges as its too soon for that and he doesnt have all his grades for Junior year. This coming September you will know a lot more and colleges will want to see his transcript and if they are unsure will want to see another semester of work from Senior year.</p>
<p>That being said, its ALWAYS wise to plan colleges as such: apply to 10 or so. 3 reach, 4 match and 3 safety. You pick em' (meaning working with with him for financial considerations and academic expectations and likelihood of admission, but MOST importantly ought to be that "fit" factor, which is a combination of many subjective factors)</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I have a bunch of elite degrees, including a couple of Stanfords, three Harvards, an MIT, and a Columbia in my family (if you count a couple of cousins and not me), and I don't think he is aiming too high--as long as he is also realistic and has a couple of safeties he would be happy with. I went with a run-of-the-mill public and was both challenged and happy there.</p>
<p>But you gotta dream, as long as you are prepared for what you might wake up to.</p>
<p>What he should 100% definitely do is apply to math research programs this summer. Look on line for them, your child sounds smart and good in math, so search on-line for programs that allow students to be involved in research. It may take a while, but there are TONS. If there is a local university near you start there but look at other places. Then he should submit his project to Intel or Siemen's competitions (these competitions carry serious clout) and in all honesty if he wants to get into MIT this is something that he WILL definitely help.</p>
<p>I have to disagree with nonelitist: it very much IS time to look at specific colleges! You should try to start visiting schools during February vacation so that you can see the place while school is in session and your S can attend a class. It becomes increasingly difficult to visit as time goes on, especially when you have a kid who is involved in ECs. </p>
<p>In addition, envisioning himself as a student at Carnegie Mellon or some other great school may motivate him to do what it takes to turn those B+s into As. :)</p>
<p>I have to agree with Consolation. However, one parent, POIH, his daughter was in top 20% and got into MIT and CalTech. So it's help to be female and applying to engineering schools.</p>