<p>I always hear phrases like: "I was too poor to go to Harvard so I ended up going to my state school because of money issues" or "I didn't apply to Ivies because of financial reasons, I don't have that kind of money." Since CC is pretty familiar with financial aid policies I thought I'd ask here. </p>
<p>I know for a fact that the Ivies probably have the most generous financial aid package out of national universities, and only ask at most 10% earnings from families with up to 150k in earnings+assets. I'm wondering if there are actual situations where multiple children/specific hardships aren't accounted for and result in a weird financial situation that results in the ivy college not meeting a reasonable amount of aid that would result in most other schools being cheaper? Or, is this the usual answer to save face in the company of complete rejection from the ivies? I'm not asking this to put down anyone that says stuff like this (they might not have even been aware of how great ivy league financial aid is and saying it out of ignorance), but I've been hearing similar things so often recently I'm just wondering if these situations are as common as I hear or is it really only in crazy exceptional cases that Harvard becomes more expensive compared to the in-state public school? I really can't think of specific examples where this would happen, I guess I'm asking for some - does anyone know?</p>
<p>I think you’d have to be middle class for finances to really hurt. If you are exceptionally poor, schools like those are free. But otherwise, you’re going to be asked to pay a hefty price that a full scholarship at a “lesser” school can compete with pretty well. </p>
<p>Most people accepted into the ivies with paying issues are probably not too poor, but instead not poor (or extremely rich) enough. :/</p>
<p>Of course - many people can not afford to attend the Ivies. While the Ivies are fairly generous with need-based aid, unfortunately that aid often includes a number of loans. For our family, the Ivies would generally not be an option as we will not finance college with loans. Since the Ivies do not offer merit based scholarships, chances are most of the aid would be in the form of loans. In our case, Harvard would be substantially more expensive than our in-state public schools and would be out of reach. When you hear someone talking about receiving a great financial aid package from these schools, more than likely a good portion of it is in loans, so would have to be payed back at some point.</p>
<p>Harvard does not currently offer loans as part of their financial aid package. That seems to be a common misconception. However, they do offer loans for the costs not covered by their financial aid.</p>
<p>Philovitist: So how exactly would a state school end up giving more aid to middle class families than ivies? Harvard is ~30k more expensive than the average state school, but if the family makes up to 150k annually, they must at maximum pay less than 10% of their income (so at most 15k for everything including housing). So how does this come out cheaper for public schools especially because they aren’t known to give generous aid? Sorry if I’m missing something, maybe a specific example with numbers might help me understand. </p>
<p>^^^sorry, you are correct. However, FA is awarded based on demonstrated need and EFC. Our EFC is substantially more than we could pay on an annual basis, so we would have to take out loans aside from the financial aid package. Since we will not fund college with loans, then our kids could truthfully say they could not attend based on financial constraints. One of my S’s friends was accepted for the coming year, but will not attend based on finances.</p>
<p>It depends on the family’s definition of “affordable.” If a family makes enough money to be completely ineligible for financial aid, it could be that they simply do not wish to spend the extra money, even if it is theoretically possible. My friend’s parents actually told him that the reason he couldn’t attend MIT was that the family would have to give up their vacation money. They simply did not see the value in spending an extra $50,000 a year for MIT vs the state flagship. Luckily for him, he didn’t want to go anyway.</p>
<p>There are several reasons why a family might deem an Ivy League school unaffordable. It might be because of, like you said, saving face. Or, they may have simply not known about the breadth of financial aid available. It really depends on the family.</p>
<p>EDIT: And, as takeitallin has stated, some families may simply not support taking loans as a matter of principle. There are lots of reasons.</p>
<p>I see. That’s really unfortunate. I guess they aren’t really being genuine when they mean they take care of any need 100%. That’s saddening. Would you mind giving me a specific example of how this can happen? For example, does finances become too difficult when (income + assets) - (debts) = more than 150k? Since anything lower than 150k means you’d pay less than 15k each year max, is the “unfortunate range” somewhere between 200k-300k? I am having a hard time imagining situations where this can happen so excuse my ignorance.</p>
<p>I doubt anyone can answer that question. Financial aid varies widely between schools and families’ financial situations. However, if a student is able to gain acceptance into Harvard, it is likely that he/she will be able to amass a large amount of merit scholarships at other universities. Thus, going to Harvard for any cost, versus going to a state school for free, might not seem like a financially prudent decision for the family. It’s not always about the money spent, but how much is saved and used for other purposes. Not everyone values a “Harvard” education more than a state school education, especially not $240,000 more.</p>
<p>First of all - there is a huge difference in the FA packages from the different Ivy League schools. HYP, being the most generous and Cornell, Brown and Dartmouth tending to be less so, based on much smaller endowment per student.</p>
<p>The mission at H (and probably Y&P) is that finances should never be a bar to attending the school, and students should not graduate in debt. I think they do an admirable job of that across all income levels.</p>
<p>Now if you have a household income of 150K and it will cost 15k per year, room, board, etc to attend Harvard, and your State U gives you an academic scholarship to cover your entire cost of attendance, that’s a decision. But I wouldn’t say it really means one is ‘too poor’ to attend Harvard.</p>
<p>You can never be “too poor” to attend Harvard, as those making under 60k have no family contribution, get paid travel arrangements to Visitas, etc. You can be “too wealthy” to attend, if it means you don’t get much financial aid and don’t want to pay a large tuition bill.</p>
<p>In our family situation Harvard was more affordable than our State U. We are in the under 150,000 range and pay roughly 10% of our income. Our State U with scholarships still cost us with room and board more.</p>
<p>That would depend on your interpretation of “middle class.” The median American household income is around $50,000, which would yield an EFC of 0. Granted, a more meaningful figure would be the median household income of 40-50 year olds, i.e. families generally old enough to have college-age children, which would no doubt be higher. But the point is that by no stretch of the imagination is $150,000 “middle class.” </p>
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<p>I’m curious why you’re so opposed to loans. What if it’s $2000 in loans? Or $8000? Are you opposed to loans in principle or are you opposed to an excessive amount of loans?</p>
<p>If you’re in my position, then yes, in theory I’ll be “too poor.” My family makes between $150k and $180k a year, which is kind of a tough spot to be in. Upper middle class is perhaps the worst spot, as my parents pay for the schooling of three of my siblings and many intangible come into play which would make it impossible to afford without significant aid.</p>
<p>You absolutely can be too poor to attend Harvard or any school that uses parents’ financials to determine whether YOU are deemed eligible for financial aid. What those schools believe your parents can pay may not mesh with what they believe. They may not want to pay anything. Some cases I’ve seen are with remarriages, where a well to do step parent refuses to pay, and the parent doesn’t have the resources. Too bad. If a NCP is involved and s/he refuses to pay, too bad. If parents refuse to fill out the aid application, too bad. It’s worse to have parents with means who refuse to pay than parents who cannot afford to pay in the situation where a kid is accepted to such schools. The schools have no merit awards most of the time and your parents have to qualify for financial aid, not the student before any money is given.</p>
<p>I have a friend who retired very early and put all of his money into investment properties. Family lived off of the net rent and he figured the increase in value of the properties would be what would fund his old age. To sell a property meant to reduce the income and tax breaks that the property generated. Harvard didn’t care. Didn’t get any money at all. Owning a business means that you have to go by the way the colleges assess the business and they also add back expenses that one can deduct.</p>
<p>So yes, there is a large category of kids who are too poor to attend Harvard.</p>
<p>We are one of those families that are too poor to pay Havard’s price to us. It would cost us $26,560 more a year to attend Havard over our public college. $106,000 more over 4 years. No way I am taking loans for that amount. EFC does not take in to consideration that a family may have just started making a higher salary.</p>
<p>many people are confusing “too poor”, with “I choose not to”. ‘Too poor’ means that one is unable to afford the cost, not 'it would entail selling income property and I choose not to do that", or “my local university provides a better value”.</p>
<p>"Too poor’ means one is legitimately unable to find the funds to make attendance possible.</p>