Is it common to get wildly different NPC results from similar schools?

Paying for College
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Hi!

I (a junior) was running some NPCs with my parents earlier today. We have a complicated financial situation and I definitely don’t think CB’s calculator takes that into account – when the time comes to actually apply for financial aid, we’ll probably end up calling for clarifications. With that said, I was wondering if it’s common to have large differences in EFC or if that was a result of the fact that each school’s calculator seemed to misinterpret my family’s situation slightly differently. For example, Princeton put my EFC at 30k and Columbia put it at 66k. Is it more likely that they will actually provide such different amounts of aid, or that the calculator is wrong? Has anyone else had this experience (and how did it turn out?)

Thanks :slight_smile:

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The more complicated your situation…the less reliable the next price calculators are. They work best with married parents, who are not self employed, who own only their primary residence.

Anything more complicated…well…the NPC just won’t work.

I don’t want to pry…but what is SO complicated about your finances? You may find…to really not complicated…at all.

I would expect the net price at Princeton to be lower than that at Columbia. Princeton has very very generous need based aid policies…awarding aid to families in the almost $200,000 a year income range. Columbia is not as generous.

But really…if there are not questions on the net price calculator related to your “complicated finances”…you may find the NPC isn’t going to be accurate.

Now…having said all,that…if you indeed have a complicated financial situation…AND you are a competitive applicant for Princeton and Columbia…perhaps you should,start looking for colleges that will,awards you large merit awards…which do not take your family finances into consideration.

Can your parents contribute to your college costs? How much!

If Columbia has a $60,000 plus net cost…your income exceeds $200,000 a year…and/or you have very significant assets.

It’s very possible you won’t get a lot of need based aid…so cast a wide net innterms of college applications…that includes affordable options.

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Princeton put my EFC at 30k and Columbia put it at 66k. I


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HYPS give “super aid,” so the aid estimate from P would be more favorable than Columbia or other Ivys.

Don’t know if Columbia is one of the Ivys that will match aid offered by another Ivy. Of course you’d have to be accepted by another Ivy that offered better aid to get the match. And again, I don’t know if C will match.

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My whole family is dual citizens. We file American taxes every year, but because we also pay in our home country, all our income is labelled as “tax-exempt” and we don’t actually pay any American income tax. Most of the NPCs didn’t really seem equipped to handle this: some doubled our income, some didn’t have an option to indicate paying taxes abroad but being a “domestic” student for aid purposes, etc. I would hope that while I was actually filing for financial aid, I would be able to call and work this out with the powers that be.

It’s not just Princeton and Columbia – for example, Harvard put my EFC 20k higher than Princeton did, when I was (naively) assuming they would be the best of the lot.

I’ve talked things over with my parents and I also have a good + cheap backup option, so it’ll all work out; I’m just trying to figure out what to expect.

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Yes it is common, particularly when finances are complicated, because each college has different rules it applies to the various complications. Just the minor complication of home equity can lead to large discrepancies.

You need to discuss with your family what they are willing to pay; go ahead and apply to colleges that award need-based aid, but prepare for the worst. The NPC’s are not reliable at all if there is anything about your family finances that doesn’t fit on the form – they are designed for relatively simple & common scenarios, and even then provide only a rough estimate. By “prepare for the worst” I mean that you should also look for schools that offer merit aid and don’t fall in love with any particular school – as it is very possible that you will be admitted but not given aid that is workable for your family - and definitely do not apply binding ED anywhere. You absolutely need to be able to compare financial aid awards in the spring.

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Checking for clarity.

You have a large income that is tax exempt…because of your dual citizenship status…but you hope to get need based aid?

And you are hoping these Profile colleges will ignore your rather sizable family income?

Really?

The net price calculators will NOT be reliable at all for,you because of this income status.

To be honest, I don’t think the colleges will ignore your income. You will need to report it on the Profile regardless of,your tax status here in the U.S. Princeton doesn’t use the Profile…but does have its own form.

Here is my suggestion…do the net price calculators with your parent actual income…and see what you get.

And if you are a competitive applicant for Princeton and Columbia…then you could garner merit aid elsewhere.

Or maybe look at colleges in the other country where you have citizenship. Are they more affordable?

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That’s not what I meant to imply. My family is making that kind of upper-middle-class income in the spot between “guaranteed need-based aid” and “can definitely do full pay”, we’re just making it in another country. I’m not looking for the NPCs to ignore this income, just to see it for what it is. (Some doubled it, some assumed I was an international student when I actually qualify as a domestic one, and so on.)

I am definitely looking at cheaper options, both in the US and at home, but I wanted an estimate of how much these colleges would cost for my family; when the estimates varied a lot, I wasn’t sure if that was accurate or because of my odd situation. It looks like it may be a mix of both.

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It’s probably a mix. In terms of thinking you were international or not…all that will get you is a $5500 Direct Loan. Of course if your AGI on your U.S. taxes is $0, you will also get a Pell Grant of $5900 or so.

Really…all of,the schools you listed give need based aid to international students…and I believe they meet full need for them as well. So in terms of institutional aid…I don’t think you would,have seen a difference.

If the income was doubled. .its because you entered it twice. If you only entered it as income in one field on the NPC, the income would not have been doubled.

As a very gross guesstimate,the family contribution is usually 1/4 to 1/3 of the GROSS income a fsmily earns at a higher income level like yours.

So…if your parent annual income is in the $200,000 range, your family contribution will likely be 50,000 to $65,000 a year…or so.

But really, these are all guesses. The net price calculators won’t be accurate for you because of the foreign income issue.

You might just have to apply…and wait and see.

But do,cast a broad net…t sounds like younare also looking at more affordable,options than $60,000 plus a year. And there are PLENTY of those less costly schools.

If younlive outside the U.S., your application for admission will be reviewed with others from your region even though you are a U.S. citizen.

Also, this means you likely don’t have instate residency for tuition purposes…anywhere.
.

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I had my EFC change quite a lot when I marked domestic instead of international, as well as when I changed fields which should not have doubled my income (tax-exempt income vs. parental wages…) It seems like I will indeed just have to wait and see. Ah well!

(PS – oh, boy, do I know those out-of-state tuition woes! My father was briefly lobbying for UC Berkeley. I pulled up their page on OOS costs and his tune changed very quickly :P)

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Yes…and Cal gives NO need based aid to OOS students! Yikes.

Your family contribution would have gone down because the federally funded loans were included if you were a citizen.

But really…yours is a different situation…so you will need to,wait and see.

At some colleges, there would,have been a huge difference…because some colleges do NOT meet need for international students…or have limited funds for international students. But Columbia and Princeton meet full need for all applicants.

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If you already have a decent idea what you want to study, I’d recommend looking at UK and Irish unis. Costs would be around $40K/year (tack on maybe $10K more for Oxbridge) for 3 or 4 years.

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Thank you for the recommendation! From what I’ve heard, I’m not sure if the typical UK curriculum is right for me – I’d like to have a lot of breadth and it seems like it’s focused on depth? I will do some more poking around.

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We file American taxes every year, but because we also pay in our home country, all our income is labelled as “tax-exempt” and we don’t actually pay any American income tax.
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This may help you with your federal FAFSA EFC, but CSS Profile schools will still use the entire family income whether it is US taxed or not.

It’s a strange loophole for Pell purposes, but you may end up qualifying for a small Pell Grant. If you do, that will not be added on to institutional aid, it will just replace some institutional aid. So if you qualify for $25k of grants from Columbia, but then FAFSA says you get a $5k Pell Grant, then your C grants will become $20.

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<<< Some doubled it, >>>

How would that happen??

When using the NPCs you simply put your income in. Make sure that you’re not putting parents income in where student income goes.

CSS schools don’t care about US tax exempt status.

Edited to add… ok…so


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I had my EFC change quite a lot when I marked domestic instead of international, as well as when I changed fields which should not have doubled my income (tax-exempt income vs. parental wages...) It seems like I will indeed just have to wait and see. Ah well!

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(PS – oh, boy, do I know those out-of-state tuition woes! My father was briefly lobbying for UC Berkeley. I pulled up their page on OOS costs and his tune changed very quickly )


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If your dad won’t pay $60k for Berkeley (and that’s understandable), then you may have problems with other private schools that will ALSO expect you to pay that much or more…


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each school's calculator seemed to misinterpret my family's situation slightly differently. For example, Princeton put my EFC at 30k and Columbia put it at 66k. Is it more likely that they will actually provide such different am

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Have you asked your parents how much they WILL pay each year??? Ask them!

Be sure to add in extra costs such as at least $2k Int’l travel costs AND $2300 for health insurance. So, if your parents say that they can pay $25k per year, assume that $5k of that will have to go towards int’l travel and health insurance…so really only $20k towards college.

Be sure to include a few safety schools…those would be ones that will give you HUGE merit for your stats.

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OP, are you talking about ‘foreign earned income exclusion’ or something else? I assume you’re talking about FEIE.

you need to enter the income as income on the NPCs. some will ask specifics about the FEIE and you’ll enter that to have it removed, etc. NPCs that don’t take your AGI, taxes and FEIE into consideration will reflect a slightly higher net price, but not significantly.

Your tax paid is just a single piece of the puzzle. The main thing colleges will look at is your actual income and asset situation.

And finally, yes, the NPCs and the actual FA packages vary greatly from school to school.

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^^^^
I can’t imagine that any CSS schools will exclude foreign income in any way. If a NPC does, I would be very concerned that the results would not be accurate.

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I am talking about the FEIE, but the NPCs I ran didn’t have an option specifically for that. One of the main problems was that I would put down $X as parent wages. Then I would get down to a section called “tax-exempt income”, for example, and the description would go something like “any additional income that wasn’t taxed”. So I wouldn’t be sure whether to put $X (the amount of tax-exempt income my parents had) or $0 (the amount of /additional/ tax-exempt income my parents had).

It’s this type of thing that resulted in the doubling, I think. To get around it I had to fudge the numbers in slightly different ways on each calculator, which I thought might have contributed to the different results they gave me. (Of course, I wouldn’t “fudge” anything on the real thing, but I just wanted a sense of what to expect.)

I do have cheap safety schools in my back pocket and I have talked about this with my parents, so there won’t be any overly nasty surprises a year from now, don’t worry :slight_smile:

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You put in the taxable income in the first section (and that might be $0) and then put the tax exempt income in the section that asks for that amount.

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Right…you wouldn’t list the income in TWO places.

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Hmm. It feels odd writing down that my parents’ wages are 0, but I guess if what they really want in that box is taxable income, that’s what I should do.