Is it even worth EDing JHU and crapshooting with such poor academics?

Applying to College
1

Huge downward trend.

I know its really bad, some extenuating circumstances revolving my cousins death during junior year, which was the year with the big fall, which I will mention but doesn’t disregard poor performance(asian male in stem in overrepresented region btw)

UW:3.91 (Pre-Jr year 4.0)

W:5.18 (Pre-Jr year 5.2)

1530/35

Rank = ~12% (only percentiles reported for sub top 10%) (pre-jr year top 5% 30/580)

Grades:

8th:

Health = 98

Honors Algebra 1: Semester 1 - 97 Semester 2 - 95

French 1: Semester 1 - 91 Semester 2 - 93

9th :

AP Human: Semester 1 - 95 Semester 2 - 95

Honors GT Program(English): Semester 1 - 91 Semester 2 - 97

Honors Algebra 2: Semester 1 - 100 Semester 2 - 99

Honors Geometry: Semester 1 - 98 Semester 2 - 99

Honors French 2: Semester 1 - 97 Semester 2 - 97

Honors Biology: Semester 1 - 96 Semester 2 - 99

Medical Terminology: Semester 1 - 97 Semester 2 - 98

Orchestra: Semester 1 - 98 Semester 2 - 98

10th ( worse, not by too much, mostly cuz online)

Honors Pre-Calc: Semester 1 - 93 Semester 2 - 89

Honors Computer Science Semester 1 - 100 Semester 2 - 94

Honors English 2: Semester 1 - 91 Semester 2 - 95

AP Physics 1: Semester 1 - 92 Semester 2 - 90

AP US History: Semester 1 - 96 Semester 2 - 96

AP Biology: Semester 1 - 96 Semester 2 - 97

AP Seminar Semester 1 - 98 Semester 2 - 99

Orchestra: Semester 1 - 98 Semester 2 - 97

11th(screwed myself over, worst year of my life, especially 1st semester, tons of B’s and all low A’s, dropped out of top 10% class rank, lost 4.0):

AP World History: Semester 1 - 92 Semester 2 - 96

AP Lang: Semester 1 - 92 Semester 2 - 96

AP Calc BC: Semester 1 - 83 Semester 2: 95

AP Statistics: Semester 1 - 80 Semester 2 - 82

AP Research: Semester 1 - 88 Semester 2 - 98

AP Physics 2: Semester 1 - 90 Semester 2 - 94

AP Computer Science: Semester 1 - 92 Semester 2 - 94

Pathophysiology: Semester 1 - 90 Semester 2 - 94

12th sem 1 Projected(Currently in q1, Semester 1 reported in midyear reports):

AP Chem: 90(Hopefully atp worst class ever, worst case scenario would be a B)

AP Lit: 96

AP Economics: 91

Honors Research: 100

AP environmental: 94

Clinical Laboratory Science: 93

I’ve always wanted to ED Jhu, but covid burnout + Extenuating circumstances + poor performance ruined my academics ( in the context of top 20 schools(and ut austin non auto ), I understand that my grades are not that poor in general but I’m not proud of them in the slightest) I feel like my ecs+essays are fine ((Chance Pre-Med Applicant for Johns Hopkins Early Decision + Reach Schools - #9 by DadTwoGirls) Linked here)but with such poor academics idek, they are def the worst part of my app, only test scores are the decent parts in my stats section of the application

2

Stop beating yourself up. It’s not healthy for you, nor is it likely to put you in a good mindset for completing your college applications.

A slump in junior year is not very favorable for ED at such a competitive school. If it’s truly your #1 choice though and it’s affordable for your family, it may not be a waste of time. What have your AP scores from 10th and 11th grades been? Do you have any teachers this year that you also had last year who can speak to the difficulties you had last year and any noted improvements so far this year? Can your counselor? For you to have a chance, I would think that you need to show that the difficulties that you had junior year are over and that you’re back on the course you were on previously.

Since Johns Hopkins’ acceptance rate for ED is 29% (vs. 8% RD) and it fills 53% of its freshman class through ED, if you want a shot to attend Johns Hopkins, that would probably be the best route to go. If you get deferred because they want to see your mid-semester report card (which would not be surprising), they know that they’re high on your list of schools, and thus likely to attend (improving their yield), which might give you better odds than you would have had if you only applied RD.

But realize, that whether 29% or 8%, the vast majority of applicants to Johns Hopkins are denied. Most of the applicants are very strong candidates. I don’t think your chance of acceptance is nil, but it is probably lower than the stats listed above. Your essays would need to be very compelling and show why you’re a great fit for Johns Hopkins.

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In your other thread, there were some financial issues mentioned, such as the need for debt at JHU.

Four years of JHU costs almost as much as four years at an in-state Texas public university plus four years at an in-state Texas public medical school.

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my ap scores weren’t the most favorable during those years, they add little to nothing in terms of applications. I am reaching out to my counselor to discuss the extenuating difficulties in their letter of recommendation, and I do hope that my grades somewhat show that I am back on track because 2nd semester of junior year everything went back to a 94+ except 1 class, and this year everything should be an A at minimum.
I know JHU is a long shot regardless of who you are, but it is really my first choice so I am EDing. I did conduct research at JHU and have a LOR from a professor there if that adds any significant value, but hopefully my essays are compelling enough to make up for the stat decline.

5

I’ve taken financial issues into account with my family and my parents and I both want to continue pursuing JHU ED, so now my entire focus is on hopefully getting into the school. I understand the significant financial difference but my parents are supportive of my decision and they also encouraged me to pursue this path when I brought up finances. While we are planning to still consult on the matter a little bit more, I’m still crafting my application with JHU ED in mind until November hits.

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If your AP scores were not favorable to your application, then I think that your chances just became slimmer. Hopkins’ admissions team would probably want to know why you’ve taken 11 APs already and aren’t submitting any scores. They will probably make assumptions that are not in your favor.

I also just reread the thread you linked, and if your family wants you to take out a private loan from them to cover 2-years of JHU…that is a TON of money. And you’re thinking about medical school on top of that? Not only is the cost of medical school super high (big educational loans are one of the biggest problems for new doctors), but it will be extremely challenging to have the grades necessary there to get into medical school. You’ve taken AP bio, AP physics (1 & 2), AP Calc, AP Statistics, and none of the AP scores are ones that you want to submit. I strongly suspect that most of your JHU classmates will have earned 4s and 5s on those tests, and huge chunks of them are going to be pre-med as well. In science classes where there is often a curve, that does not bode well for you earning the types of grades you need at JHU for medical school.

Based off the two factors above, I would strongly reconsider EDing at JHU. You might get in, although it is probably an even longer shot than the overall admissions rates indicate. But, what I fear, is what will happen if you DO get in. If you’re really wanting to go to medical school, I’m not sure that Johns Hopkins is going to get you there, and even if it does, it will have saddled you with years of extra debt that you don’t need.

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Your grades are fine. Not everyone who gets into Hopkins has perfect grades, so stop beating yourself up over it. In fact it shows that you’ve overcome some adversity.

But I think you should reassess JHU and medical school. If getting into medical school is your ultimate dream, then please know that nearly 1/3 - 1/2 of each incoming class is pre-med at JHU. You’ll be up against some serious competition. As an asian, you’ll need some top stats to get into medical school. And they don’t care where you get your degree from. Going to a competitive place like JHU and getting a 3.5 won’t cut it for med school. You’re going to need a 3.8+ and 514 MCAT to be competitive. Over the last couple of years with COVID, a lot of med school admissions committees are paying more attention to MCAT because of grade inflation.

The extra debt is not worth it IMHO. Physicians have good pay, but at the expense of delayed gratification. You’d be much better off going to a small liberal arts college and graduating at the top of your class.

Med schools also pay attention to diversity – not just by race, but also by undergraduate college. Going to a small LAC will actually help you stand out more. You’d probably also get a really good scholarship, to keep undergrad costs low.

EDIT: please refer to Table A18 of the AAMC stats for applicants and matriculants by race. This gives you an overview of the stats you’ll need to be a competitive applicant:

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This is the same issue that I was thinking about. I did not attend JHU. I did attend different similarly highly ranked and academically very demanding universities for both my bachelor’s and my master’s. I have said many times “you have to want to do it”.

The competition at JHU will be very strong. There will be a lot of students who are exceptional and who are very determined to do well and to go on to medical school. There will be tons of homework and very tough exams. You have to want to study very hard 7 days a week. Saturdays are for catching up on work that you did not get done during the week. Sundays are for catching up on work that you did not get done on Saturday.

When I was in graduate school I was older and was ready for this. I wanted to do it. The desire came from inside myself. I still remember very well working 6 hours on a Saturday to solve one single problem on a homework assignment. To me it was great fun to work 6 hours on a Saturday to solve a problem that very few if any other students in the class could solve. When I was an undergrad I was younger and this was tougher. I might have wanted to be doing something else on a Saturday afternoon. When I was an undergraduate student I did not always consistently want to work this hard for four years in a row.

A BIG question is whether you similarly feel driven from inside yourself to work this hard among such strong competition. Only you can answer this.

To me whether to ED Johns Hopkins, or even whether you want to attend a very highly ranked university for your bachelors, might come down to three things: (1) Budget; (2) How to optimize your chances of getting into a good medical school; and (3) Whether you want to work this hard (for a full 8 years).

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Not to burst your bubble but it is VERY HARD to get into medical school. You could look great on paper, but so does every other applicant. So, if you were to get into JH, and you pay the full fees and you go through all of the EC’s and volunteering, what happens if you are not admitted to medical school? Those loans need to be repaid.
My daughter was fortunate and got in, but a lot of her classmates didn’t get in. (1000 graduates in the school of biological sciences, and, that was just at one school in one semester.) You have to have something that the medical school needs. If you don’t have whatever they need, you are not getting in.

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This is essentially a repeat of your previous thread, so there is no need for two threads.

Closing

13

Reopened, after some consideration.

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Maybe JHU is more important to the OP than med school? People have pointed out that financially & academically JHU may be counterproductive to their med school ambitions, but after acknowledging that reality the OP always comes right back to the childhood ‘dream’.

Or, if all the OP’s EC’s are as substantive as presented on their posts, the OP may be one of those startlingly hyper-able students that wash up on CC shores from time to time, and may end up top of their year at JHU, with multiple med school offers, then go on to be a star in med school and end up in a specialty that will pay off that debt in less than 10 years…

(edited to fix a typo b/c it was bugging me)

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Yep, I guess you can’t beat a dead horse, even if it is fed with multiple and various grains.

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I have seen this happen. Sometimes the student who thinks that they barely got in somewhere and who wonders “how did I get accepted here” shines and ends up at the top of the class. The two cases that I am aware of were both examples where the student was driven to want to do it. Something similar to one bad year in high school might have been a big part of the motivation in both cases.

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I agree. JHU is almost the last place I would want to attend if I were planning to be a doctor–So expensive! So many other gunning pre-meds (over 1/3 the class!) So stressful!

I understand that some people are aiming for prestige, but even prestige can be had for much less stress. For example, why not attend the University of Minnesota, Rochester? It is a joint program of the University of MN and the Mayo Clinic. It’s a relatively new program that is trying to grow, so admission is not at all difficult and merit aid is plentiful. Huge opportunity for research (at the prestigious Mayo Clinic!) and tons of mentoring.

I mean, the downside is it’s a tiny program, without big sports or frats etc. Not the typical college experience, and I understand some people want that…

Or why not an LAC? I’m a doctor myself, and I’m glad I attended an LAC that was affordable and left me with little debt. I’m also glad my school had a collaborative culture rather than competitive. I had plenty of research opportunities, and was very well prepared for med school.

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thank you all very much for your responses.
I understand the cons of JHU for pre-med and if I want to pursue med school and will reconsider my decision to ED JHU. While I’m still not deadset on ED or not. I am still worried about my stats in comparison to not just JHU but a lot of schools.
I’d like to think that what someone said above about a bad year in high school has caused motivation to be true, every extracurricular I’ve pursued was due to a realization that I had ruined my stats and needed to take action to have a chance in this process, so I took steps on my own for nearly every extracurricular to land spaces in my passion. That being said, there are defintely tons of applicants with profiles and specifically stats much better than mine at JHU and other “top schools” + with everyone talking about JHU being counterproductive to medical school I will continue to discuss with family about which path to take. Finances are not a big issue in my family, our income reaches over 500k+, but even with being in a higher financial status the amount of money needed for private + med schools is a lot.
I think a big reason that I was originally motivated to ED to a school such as JHU was due to losing auto-admit to UT Austin in my own state texas, which would’ve been my go to as its relatively cheap because its a state school and very well resourced, but with the acceptance rate dropping to 10% because I messed up, I no longer have a school like UT that I have nearly guaranteed admission to and is a place which I would be super happy going to that is also the best financially. I will plan to broaden my perspective though and look into other universities and decide whether or not JHU ED is really the move

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You had the same thread b4. The answer is u r unlikely bcuz of your out of top 10% rank and that 98% of their students are top 10%

Is it impossible ? No. Should you write about your issues ? No

You can EA lots of other schools.

Good luck

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So good to hear these concerns. Many others will learn from what you’ve shared.
Best wishes as you and your family consider a variety of options.
:+1::raised_hands::grinning:

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