or is this entire process pathetic? i mean, i know that you have to apply for college, but does anyone think this this is just going too far with it? people buy numerous books, get their essays read and reread buy people looking for massive amounts of money, the princeton review and the college board have a field day with juniors, knowing that most are anxious to get into a “top” school, that is really only so selective for the purpose of going higher in someone’s ranking? not to bash, but this(not the forum) is really a load of steaming bull. i was reading admissions confidential(which everyone should) and found myself dissappointed in many of the best schools in the country. sure, these places are full of intellectuals that played the game of admissions well, but what about those that choose not to play that game in high school, like myself, because in the context of their environment, the pursuit of knowledge was more important than any gpa or rank. i go to a school where i might be 127 of 232, but i certainly can apply what i know more than number 5 and up can. i’m done ranting(if you would call it that) now.
<p>I know it's really crazy, and then even if you get 1600/valedictorian/800s/decent ECs, they still reject you, and they even save the number of students like that to show the public later! People who donate have better chances than someone else with the same stats who is poor. Or if you happened to have wealthy parents who also went to the same school back in the day, your chances are raised. And then there are these "informal" connections with schools where those colleges have to accept a certain number of students from that school. Or even if you weren't born a URM, you're still at a disadvantage! It really puts the common man in bad shape in terms of admissions, no matter how much he could do. It's quite disappointing.</p>
<p>well... i feel ya' brother... (OR sister..??)</p>
<p>i was reading this book... "Anthem" by Ayn Rand...
i think it has a lot to do with what you're saying...</p>
<p>it's about an architect who just got expelled from a prestigious skool
because he decided to draw too-modern-type buildings..</p>
<p>he is neglected by society and everyone... those who actually liked his works only said so in front of this architect...</p>
<p>.. the moral of the story... life isn't fair... (at least that's one of them..)
the whole system of applying to college and getting accepted...
it is all a huge pain in the...abs (eh-hem).. but if you want to get into
a good college.. or should i say... make-my-momma-proud-college, then
you have to go with the flow...</p>
<p>however... i do believe that any college... either state, private, small,
big, community, or whatever.. is benefiting in many aspects...
just because one sits in a huge hall and listens to a 50+ year old person
with a title "Ph.D" doesn't make that one a genious...
(although he might be helpful)</p>
<p>college isn't everything... it isn't a goal in life...
.. if it is, then the whole society, the whole world has failed its job
to educate and to guide the posterity to achieve a greater quality of life..</p>
<p>anyways... i got off the track just a bit... but hang on there, man...
as an old saying goes... SUCCESS DEPENDS ON PASSION AND TIMING!</p>
<p>the book you referred to is "Fountainhead" btw</p>
<p>"Anthem" is the one that takes place in the future and the guy lived in exile from the community</p>
<p>The OP mentioned reading "Admissions Confidential" by Rachel Toors who was an adcom at Duke. Her book tends to be a little cynical. (Plus it is marred somewhat by irrelevant asides on such topics as her dating habits and her pet pig.) A less cynical book is "A is For Admissions" by Michelle Hernandez who was at Dartmouth. A third book that discusses the process is "Harvard Schmarvard" by Jay Mathews who is a Wash Post reporter. In it, he selects "A is For Admissions" for special criticism as being a book containing "brand-obsessed nonsense".</p>
<p>anyway, yeah. i have a friend that literally stressed herself into illness to get into the schools she wanted. i thought she was insane at the time, i still do, but if that's the flow of things, the stream needs to change.</p>
<p>-ok, admissions confidential may be cynical, but the "cynicism" expressed is just a more realistic view of the process, and i think that's more important than princeton review's take on admissions. from that book i got a better understanding of pig possession, by the way.</p>
<p>well i drove myself to anorexia by working too hard. Looking back I dont regret it now because I ended up at my top school, Stanford. I have however learned from my mistakes and this will never happen to me again. I think that the stress of getting to college is just another part of life and some people just take it more seriously than others. It has become a game and there is nothing we can do about that</p>
<p>really? can't the game be changed?</p>
<p>college admissions has become too hard for everyone not to try to find a way to sell themselves or make themselves stick out. Witg acceptance rates getting lowere and lower, thats how much more of a game it is becoming</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>i go to a school where i might be 127 of 232, but i certainly can apply what i know more than number 5 and up can.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Well, then your challenge will be to find a convincing way to convey to the schools to which you are applying this enhanced ability to apply what you know . Objective criteria such as grades and test scores are the most straightforward way to convey academic excellence, but you have chosen another path. So it will be up to you to demonstrate some terrific EC accomplishments and/or write some killer essays in order to convince the adcoms to look beyond your mediocre grades.</p>
<p>It can be done, but it's not easy.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>really? can't the game be changed?<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>How would your propose to change it? Go on strike or call a boycott? If you opt out of the admissions process in protest, there will be a thousand other highly qualifed applicants eager to take your place. In the college admissions game the colleges are holding all the cards and get to make up the rules.</p>
<p>College may be the first time you have to play a game to get what you want and where you want to be, but it most certainly won't be the last. In fact, at every stage of your life and for any major transition, hard decisions will need to be made about how to "play" life.</p>
<p>Anyone can choose to be an iconoclast and do things their way, but they need to understand the implications of doing so. If you chose not to play the college game, you probably don't want to play the grad school game. Therefore, going to a college that will accept your approach shouldn't be a problem.</p>
<p>Those who play the college game will most probably play the grad school game and then the best job game. If they get a top job they'll play the climb the ladder game and it just keeps going!</p>
<p>Decide what will make you happy and live accordingly.</p>
<p>to zagat: indeed</p>
<p>well, the thing is, that rank doesn't tell the whole story. i'm in a class that makes the diffrence between 91.312 and 90.312 by almost thirty places. objective it may be, but not the most accurate. </p>
<p>also, i think that colleges with "all the cards" and the crass acceptance of this fact is what got us into this problem. i fell that it is an issue to be solved by more than those on adcoms. think about it, if the college board, princeton review and the american public educational system didn't make constant assesment a priority, we wouldn't have to come down to numbers at first would we?</p>
<p>You have to understand, the vast majority of colleges do not hold all the cards. In fact, only a tiny fraction do. Of the thousands of private colleges in the US, only perhaps 25 don't have to market themselves to good students. If you want to go to one of those schools, you do have to play the game their way. If you're a good student and don't want a name brand school, then they play the game your way.</p>
<p>And BTW, this won't change one bit in our lifetimes. Globalization will only make it worse.</p>
<p>i agree with britishkid...the whole process seems to be bs and all in all makes us more like machines...</p>
<p>That guy, Jay Matthews, came to our school and talked to us about it. Interesting points, although you have to take it with a pinch of a salt(his facts are somewhat biased and he likes to boast his ivy status somewhat)</p>
<p>i hope i won't get flamed for this, but i do think that the actual criteria for admissions are, in essence, fair.</p>
<p>grades and test scores show the demonstrated academic strength of an individual. a student with mediocre grades may be intelligent, but there is no evidence of him* ever applying himself. who's to say he'll make the effort in college when he obviously didn't in high school?</p>
<p>*the male pronoun is used as a matter of convenience, not gender bias.</p>
<p>extracurricular activities add a more personal dimension to the application because they show the ways in which the student has chosen to spend his free time. ideally they should reflect his personality.</p>
<p>the essay shows the applicant's ability to express himself verbally, and conveys another aspect of his personality.</p>
<p>in this way i think the process is much better engineered than we usually give it credit for. the criteria are sound in themselves. where we go wrong is when we create an entire industry around college admissions; when a "bright, well-rounded kid" is damned with faint praise; and when innate intelligence, curiosity, and character alone are not enough for a student to succeed.</p>
<p>most people seem to think that the error is on the school's part, by fostering elitism, and that it's the admissions process that needs to be optimized. i don't think that's true. we live in a society obsessed with achievement, where intangibles need to be quantified for people to be able to make sense of them (need i mention the usnews rankings?) and nothing but the very top is good enough. the point is, people are always going to try to cheat the system, and by paying for expensive sat prep and college summer courses they are raising the stakes to the point where it's near impossible for a regular, non-packaged kid to get a word in edgewise. as a result people are giving themselves heart attacks trying to 'beat the process' and figure it all out.</p>
<p>put simply, it's madness...i'm hoping it'll at least stop escalating, but i wouldn't hold my breath.</p>
<p>that was longer than intended. in short...as everyone becomes more desperate kids (and their parents) feel the need to outperform each other by accomplishing amazing things, which means that your average bwrk doesn't stand a chance.</p>
<p>Well said Thisyearsgirl. 15? I have a strong feeling you will get where you want to go.</p>
<p>thank you zagat. :) great posts from your part, too. i appreciate the insight.</p>