<p>Let’s think about all the college programs that require students to put in a certain amount of time doing whatever… Student teaching? Athletic Training? Nursing? Don’t most medical fields? Physical Therapy? etc… all have requirements for unpaid “work” don’t they?</p>
<p>D1’s physical therapy program requires 32 weeks of full-time clinical work- all unpaid. We get to pay for the credit hours earned. D2’s occupational therapy program is the same except the clinical time is 6 months. Initially the students work under the supervision of licensed therapists, then as the clinicals progress the students shoulder more responsibility</p>
<p>hoosiermom, I can fully understand how that goes… athletic training programs require clinical hours every semester. I was doing anywhere between 25 and 50 hours per week during the fall semester working with the football team including traveling and two-a-days, etc. Then, this semester I was working at a high school where I had the privilege of driving out to the high school and back everyday (10 miles one way) and putting in about 15-25 hours a week. </p>
<p>And then the summer before I graduate I will have to do a 240 hour internship (paid or unpaid depends on where I go) and will have the privilege of paying for the credit hours. It just seems so backwards to me, but that’s the way things are…</p>
<p>I was wondering about White House Internship too. But they do offer classes (lecture) for interns. Would one consider government as non profit, therefore unpaid internship is like volunteer?</p>
<p>The Department of Labor has standards for unpaid internships (otherwise the employer is responsible for wages under the labor laws), which you can find on the DOL website.</p>
<p>Law firms, engineering firms and similar companies may want to have the student be a compensated employee in order to ensure that any tasks performed by the student are covered under the applicable liability insurance. They will also want to ensure that the student is bound by ethical obligations and internal policies and procedures that they’ve written as being applicable to employees. Sometimes they just don’t want to bother complying with DOL guidelines, and would prefer to pay a wage.</p>
<p>I swear I saw an article recently about PAID internships, meaning the student/parent pays for the (unpaid) job opportunity.
My usual reading is the NYTimes, WSJ etc. Does somebody remember seeing this?
Here it is…</p>
<p><a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310699999022549.html[/url]”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310699999022549.html</a></p>
<p>In my experiences in the nonprofit world, unpaid interns = volunteers, as 2boysima pointed out. Sometimes the kids get credit (in which cases, they ARE usually paying for the internship via their tuition, because it’s part of their course requirement). But many times they are doing it to gain relevant experience.</p>
<p>My understanding is that the rules the op posted are the ones to be considered regarding the legality. Last summer my d had an unpaid internship that she could do for credit or not but chose no credit (due to the fact that it would have cost money to the school to get the credit and a lot of busy work paperwork). She enjoyed the experience and found it valuable regardless of pay. I think that many firms either bend or break those rules though and just hope it isn’t pursued.
This year she got a very nice paid internship so no worries : )</p>
<p>The U.S. Department of Labor doesn’t require that unpaid interns receive school credit. Its guidelines say unpaid internships are permissible under the Fair Labor Standards Act if:</p>
<ol>
<li>The internship is similar to the training given in a vocational school.</li>
<li>The training is primarily for the benefit of the intern, not the employer.</li>
<li>The intern does not displace any regular employees, and works under close supervision.</li>
<li>There is no immediate advantage to the employerand in fact, operations may be impeded by the training.</li>
<li>The intern is not guaranteed a job at the completion of the internship.</li>
<li>The intern and the employer both understand that the intern shall receive no pay for the training.</li>
</ol>
<p>In other words, unpaid internships (with or without school credit) are SOMETIMES legal–and sometimes not. The tricky criterion here is #4, “no immediate advantage to the employer.” Most interns are expected to do real work, and most employers who establish internships expect it to be a mutually beneficial relationship; otherwise, why bother? In fact, #4 seems on its face to contradict #2, “the training is primarily for the benefit of the intern, not the employer,” insofar as #2 seems to contemplate some mutual benefit but more to the intern than to the employer. Most employers (and their lawyers) seem to think they’re on relatively safe ground as long as there’s a substantial benefit to the intern and the other criteria are clearly met.</p>
<p>Here’s a thoughtful and balanced discussion of the legal issues:</p>
<p>[Rites</a> of spring: The hidden dangers of hiring unpaid interns - Business Management Daily](<a href=“http://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/articles/8088/1/Rites-of-spring-The-hidden-dangers-of-hiring-unpaid-interns/Page1.html]Rites”>http://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/articles/8088/1/Rites-of-spring-The-hidden-dangers-of-hiring-unpaid-interns/Page1.html) </p>
<p>Careful, though. Many states have their own labor standards laws which are not necessarily preempted by the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, and additional state restrictions might apply.</p>
<p>bclintonk - not sure if you are a subject expert on this matter. But if you are, could you enlighten some of us on what Marian has raised - why White House (or many of government) internships could be unpaid? How do they qualify under those 6 points?</p>
<p>^ I’m not an expert but as I look at the Department of Labor guidelines it seems to me White House internships are probably OK. The internship is broadly speaking “vocational” in nature, albeit for the very specialized vocation of high-level politics and government service. The internship clearly benefits the intern more than the employer. Look, the White House doesn’t “need” the extra help; they can get all the top-notch professional help they want. The point of these internships is to give a few stellar (or well-connected) students the benefit of exposure to the inner workings of the White House. Their function is not to replace regular workers—though they may end up doing some routine clerical tasks that could be done by clerical employees. That’s where the program really needs to watch itself. In theory White House interns are also closely supervised; again, I don’t know if it works out that way in fact. “Immediate advantage to the employer”? Well, here’s where I’d say the White House is on very safe ground as a 19-year-old intern isn’t going to have all that much to offer in the way of political expertise, legislative relations, national security decision-making, etc—they’re there to learn primarily by observing and lending a hand at the margins, and the benefits of that relationship clearly run to the intern, not to the White House which could probably run as efficiently, if not more so, without them. No guaranteed job at the end of the internship, and a mutual understanding that the position is unpaid (I think). So I’d say they’re OK under these guidelines. The White House can easily decide to make a limited number of these internships available as a public service. </p>
<p>It may be trickier for businesses. Many businesses will want to give interns the opportunity to show what they’re capable of, and some will probably be tempted to try to make sure they’re getting their money’s worth—i.e., that the business IS getting “an immediate advantage” in the form of the intern’s work output. If not, why take on interns in the first place? Ironically, though, the more valuable the intern’s work is to the employer, the thinner the ice the employer is on with respect to the guidelines. So as an employer, what do you do? Hire bad interns who won’t provide you an “immediate advantage”? Confine them to menial tasks? But then it may not look sufficiently “vocational.” Have them do make-work under close supervision? That might qualify your internship program, but it sure won’t satisfy the interns, and it’s not clear why a well-run business would invest time and resources in that project. It seems to me the only way to approach this as a business is the way the White House does: view it as a kind of public service project on the business’s part, allow the interns to “shadow” your professionals and possibly assist them at the margins (but not too much assistance please), keep them under close supervision, and probably include some explicit instructional time, including possibly class-like settings. That sounds like a net drain on the business’s resources. But it may be legal under the guidelines. (Though I can’t really offer an opinion on this last point as I’m not licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction).</p>
<p>Thank you. It was very informative.</p>
<p>How about being an unpaid/uncredited research assistant?</p>
<p>D’s prep school has an unpaid workjob requirement of minimum 4 hours per week. Kitchen, cleaning, dorm proctor, office worker. Helps kids build job experience and resume. </p>
<p>But when a job really needs to get done and done well, they ship particular students to the personnel office to be on payroll. The quality of the work performed seems to be very different if there is a pay check involved.</p>
<p>my kid is a sport management major and it is part of her curriculum that each student participate in a semester internship. </p>
<p>in almost all Internship postings from major league teams, sport venues etc. they require 25 to 40 hours per week availability and a letter from the school indicating that student is receiving academic credit. Without the letter, no Internship.</p>
<p>Maybe because the sport internships are full time commitments and no salary, they are very serious about getting confirmation from the college that academic credit is awarded.
my kid did a summer internship with an ML lacrosse team. She also had to get letter from her school saying she was getting credit (3 credits- as it was only for summer and about 10-12 hours/week).<br>
The team also had to provide info to the school as to what my kid would be doing.</p>
<p>As it seems that the entire sport industry requires its Interns to obtain credit, my guess is that there are some real labor/legal issues that must be met for organizations to offer Internships. It’s probably a fine line as to what the definition is of Intern vs. volunteer, but it may have to do with number of hours per week worked.<br>
again- in the sport industry the student usually has to work at least 25 hours a week to be considered an Intern.</p>
<p>"How about being an unpaid/uncredited research assistant? "</p>
<p>Talk to the primary investigator and see just how much work needs to be done in order to be one of the minor authors on the papers. Some primary investigators are much more generous about sharing authorship than others. It also depends on the field, and even on the journal where the research is published. If the student is an undergraduate, being uncredited for publication may not be so critical if Dr. Famous is known for his/her glowing and effective letters of recommendation at the time of grad school application.</p>
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<p>At some colleges, this is not allowed. The student must receive either money or credit. It has something to do with insurance and what would happen if the student was injured while working in the lab.</p>
<p>also- I’m beginning to notice some Internship opportunities geared for the post grad.<br>
No credit-No salary. Just an opportunity top “get your foot in the door” working in the sports industry and no guarantee towards full time employment.
I’ve heard post grad Internships are becoming more popular in other industries too, including communications and publishing.<br>
sounds like free labor to me- </p>
<p>Due to the current job market, I can understand why some college grads may go that route at least for a limited amount of time–
It can lead to gaining experience, making contacts etc. But it is kinda sad that college grads may have to accept non salaried “employment”.
gotta admit, I’m glad d # 2 is not graduating college until 2010- It is going to be rough for 2009 grads.</p>
<p>Some number of years ago I was working for a technology company in Manhattan. The company had a long practice of taking on unpaid summer interns. Candidates were sent to us through their schools as these were for credit internships. Our new president didn’t like the unpaid part and instituted changes. All the interns were brought into a meeting and told they would receive $10/hr plus their commuting expense plus $15 a day for lunch. And I know for a fact that this was done out a sense of decency and not on any legal advise. The in house counsel was the biggest abuser of the no pay intern policy and had 3 interns in his department doing go-fer duties as well as his personal chores. When the change was announced he didn’t want the expense charged to his department so he made up an excuse to fire all three interns. The president didn’t let that happen and had me find suitable slots for the them within the organization., which wasn’t hard hard to do because on his orders the legal dept was still charged or them. I will always admire that guy for his ethical behavior and his willingness to protect underlings from manager bullies. The in house lawyer was gone within a month.</p>
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<p>There are a lot of universities going to that I’ve noticed in their athletic departments especially it seems in their athletic training departments. They are “full time” employees but they are making between $10-20 thousand a year. And some of them expect a Masters Degree too…</p>