My son would like to study Biology at Cornell but we are not from NY state. He has the option to apply to either CALS or CAS. Is it more difficult for out-of-state students to get into state contract school like CALS?
He is leaning on CALS but would like to know if he would be at disadvantage from out of state.
Theoretically no disadvantage, though there may be a small unofficial quota to accept NYers.
There is a discount for NY residents, and if they did not accept any NY residents,
the purpose behind the discount would be subverted, They can’t give discount to nobody and claim
nobody in NYS is qualified, if you want to look at the other side of the coin. Are NYers disadvantaged
so Cornell can charge all students OOS full price ?
I would say they accept the best students they find in both colleges, but since it’s located in NY,
there are MANY applicants from NY, and you will find many NYers there, but still a small portion of
the CALS class, or other colleges. This is NOT a state school where it’s 60 to 90 % in state,
with a super competitive process for OOS students. It is a private school and they want geographic diversity.
Many honors students in NY are turned down.
I would say carefully consider the curriculum in each and put the one better suited as your first choice
and the other as second choice. Don’t worry about the relative selectivity.
Thanks all for the advices, very helpful!
@MurphyBrown, do you know where I can find the CALS admission data by majors? I’ve seen the data by schools, but not by CALS majors. If you have the information please let me know, which would be very helpful. Do you know if biology is difficult to get in at CALS?
Somewhat dated (2011) but still out there.
http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000003.pdf
http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000177.pdf
And I’ll have to disagree with @blevine based on this data:
http://cornellcals.■■■■■■■■■■/post/95831168975/getting-to-know-you
30.5% is well above what I would expect if there weren’t an advantage to being in-state.
Cause and effect is difficult to ascertain. Many NY students apply to the contract colleges over the others,
based on the theory that they can get the same education at a discount. I believe they get lower than avg % of NYers in the “endowed” colleges, vs contract colleges. So does that mean it’s easier to get in, or just more applications from NY students ? The contract colleges are far more attractive to NY students, given the $15k/year tuition discount received. To be perfectly blunt, NYC suburbs have some of the highest rated public high schools in the US, and with the sheer number of highly qualified students getting into a discounted school, you get a higher acceptance and YIELD too. If my kid got into Brown, Dartmouth and Cornell, Cornell would cost $15k/year less, which absolutely affects yield. You would not believe how high a % of our graduating class applied to Cornell. One of the AP/honors teachers asked for a show of hands how many kids applied to Cornell, and then Harvard. One raised hand for Harvard, half the class for Cornell. I’ll bet most of them applied to the 3 contract colleges.
When we were at an info session for HumEc, almost all the prospective students were from Westchester. So I would agree with blevine that there are a large number of NY students at Cornell simply because so many students from NY apply and are qualified. Going to an Ivy League at a discount? No brainer.
Note on Harvard website it indicates 40% are from the northeastern US.
Does that mean it’s easier to get in from those states ?
Just the opposite. I have seen stats that 80% of students apply to colleges
within 500 miles of their hometown. So if you want geographic diversity,
a schools needs to actively recruit from outside their home area.
My son who is at Cornell, was not solicited in any way by Cornell or Columbia.
But he was by U of Chicago, Wash U and others selective but not in our state.
I think it was harder for him, having to compete with so many fellow HS graduates
to get into Cornell. Far fewer applied to Chicago, but I do know someone got in
and will attend from our NY HS.
Just a note about the tuition discount.
I talked to the financial aid office and they told me this: they factor the discount into their aid offer.
Basically, if your expected family contribution is 30k/yr, then you are going to pay 30k/yr regardless of what school you go to in Cornell. You’ll get more or less financial aid depending on where you go.
@jfx246 — the info you wrote above about the tuition ‘discount’ is correct. @blevine’s comment is more relevant to full pay families. The lower in-state tuition is what caused me to apply to a contract college many years ago.
I believe NYS residents pay $16K/year less in tuition to Ag, ILR & Hum Ec. $64K across four years is a nice bonus for full pay families.
Admissions to the NYS contract colleges is not more difficult for out-of-state applicants. There are more than enough NYS applicants so that the schools’ missions will not be undermined.
The three contract colleges – CALS, CHE, and ILR – are atypical among colleges, But New Yorkers know about them and understand them. The inside skinny is passed down from generation to generation. Say “ILR” to any high schooler in NY, and he’ll know exactly what you are talking about. Cornell is kinda/sorta the flagship university of New York state.
Here’s a factoid: Back in the day, OOS students in the contract colleges paid more than the in-state students in those colleges, but less than students in the endowed colleges (CAS, Hotel, Engineering, Architecture). There were three levels of tuition: Endowed college tuition, out-of-state student at the contract colleges, and in-state students at the contract colleges. It was widely believed that in many instances OOS applicants to contract colleges had a bit of an admissions advantage because the colleges saw dollar signs.
@brantly – I never knew there was a separate OOS rate at the contract schools. I was just happy to pay the in-state rate.
I will also say that Cornell does an awful job of marketing. I suppose on one hand I should be grateful they are not wasting paper and postage mailing out the giant brochures (like Columbia’s last week). Admission is handled at the college level and very inconsistent. Today’s mail brought a post card from ILR to my theoretical CS, applied mathematics applicant. Now that I think of it, ILR also targeted older son. (He is now happy at SHA.)
Students need to do their research to figure out which programs are offered at which college. While the websites contain a ton of info, you almost have to know what you are looking for.
@CT1417 When were you there? I am not exactly sure when they stopped the OOS tuition rate for contract colleges. I was there in the late '70s/early '80s.
@brantly —early to mid 80s. Tuition, room & board was $7K my first year. Increased by about $1000/year. Just shy of $65K this year…
@CT1417 I understand. I just wanted to clear some (possible) confusion.
@brantly I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Cornell’s contract nonresident tuition rate is the same as its endowed tuition rate. https://www.dfa.cornell.edu/bursar/students-parents/tuition-rates-fees
Contract in-state students get about $17,000 off their tuition yearly.
I hadn’t realized the tuition differential had increased to $16,744. I hadn’t looked at that in a couple of years.
@jfx246 – Brantly commented that the differential existed back in the late 70s. I think it had disappeared by my time on campus.
Yes, today that is the case. I was pointing out that many years ago, when I was a student, OOS students in the NYS contract colleges paid less than students in the endowed colleges, but more than in-state students in the contract colleges.
@brantly Ah, okay. This whole thing with endowed vs OOS vs in-state has a pretty confusing history.