I wonder if anybody has done this in Engineering programs, and what combination of programs are allowed (is it possible for all types of engineering majors?). Do you know any successful examples? Thank you
Here’s the issue…you can only take a maximum of 3 graduate classes that double count for undergrad and graduate degree, and only with permission in advance.
First thing first. You cannot apply to the combined BS/MS program until end of junior/beginning of senior year, and you have to have achieved a minimum gpa in order to be eligible.
40 AP credits are great, but the question is what are they in, and what requirements will they satisfy. You can have credits that “count” in standing, but if they are not required classes for gen eds or for your major, then that’s all they will do - raise your standing to give you a better class registration time, but won’t help you satisfy engineering course requirements.
So, assuming you have AP math to qualify to start in Calc 3, AP Physics to start in Physics 2, and AP Chem to meet chem requirements, you really are only freeing up about 4 spots on the set curriculum for other classes. There are absolutely some classes you can take sooner than suggested on the 4 year curriculum plan, but there are many that have prerequisites that create a speed bump, if you will.
Trust me, the engineering curricula is no cake walk. You don’t want to jam all those engineering courses in all at once, even if you can. My son had a friend with a ridiculous amount of AP credits coming in as a freshman, and despite being a semester ahead on a few classes, he still graduated with my son in the 4 year time frame. (My son started in Calc 3 so he also had “free” spaces, but not as much as his friend). Honestly, I think he could have probably pushed to graduate in 7 semesters at most, but he chose not to as classes got increasingly challenging in the higher levels.
As for the combination of programs, it typically is set up for the same discipline. Masters’ classes have prereqs also so that’s how it works to get the degree in one year less time than doing separately. It’s hard to meet the masters level prereq in electrical when all your coursework is mechanical, because to get to grad level electrical, you will have needed to take class x, which has a prereq of class y, which has a prereq of class z…
I hope I am explaining it clearly? I know what I am trying to say, but not sure if it’s translating well in the way I am writing it…? Let me know what doesn’t seem clear…
Also, while undergrads typically average 5 classes a semester, the workload of grad classes is far more demanding. The most grad students typically enroll for is 4 classes a semester. There is typically a research component that is time consuming as well.
So, what engineering disciplines were you considering combining?
FYI, here’s the link for mechanical http://www.enme.umd.edu/grad/joint-bsms. In case the link doesn’t work, here are the basics from that link:
The combined Bachelor’s/Master’s Degree (B.S./M.S.) Program is available only to current University of Maryland undergraduate students. The minimum requirements for acceptance into the Combined B.S./M.S. program are:
At least a 3.70 G.P.A.
No more than 30 credits of ENME courses remaining for B.S.
No more than 6 credits of CORE requirements remaining for B.S.
At least 3 letters of recommendation
An essay or statement of purpose
You can compare it to electrical here http://www.ece.umd.edu/bs-ms, aerospace is http://www.aero.umd.edu/undergrad/combined-bs-ms …these should give you a sense also of what I mean. As the mom of a MechE, that is what I am most familiar with.
Thank you, @maryversity this is very useful. My son has credits that count and he’s starting with Calc 3, Chem 2 and Phys 2. It looked like at least a semester could be shortened by these, however, I wasn’t sure how he could fill in the “space” with other courses so that they count towards either a second major or a combined BS/MS program. It seemed logical to me that this could be done, but I see that it’s difficult and there are speed bumps as you say. Do you know how common it is to have a double major in this case? Or do you know of anybody who has done the BS/MS program in a slightly shorter time than the full 5 years that it is structured to be completed? Also, I thought the application to a combined BS/MS was during the sophomore year, isn’t that the case? Thank you! Congratulations to your son.
Thanks, haha, I am pretty dang proud of that boy!
I don’t know of anybody personally that has done the BS/MS in less than 5 years, but that would be a question for the school. One other reason why I am not sure about doing it in less than 5 years is the availability of course offerings. There may be a few required courses that are only offered in the fall and some only offered in the spring.
So, as for double majors. The ones I have seen with engineering are typically math or CompSci. More frequently, you will see engineers have minors than double majors. My son did a minor in technology entrepreneurship
The other way to “fill” his schedule is with programs such as Hinman CEO’s and QUEST (). They are absolutely fabulous. Many of my son’s friends did RISE (research program). (check out post#6 for more on these here http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-maryland-college-park/1732708-everything-you-want-to-know-about-engineering-at-maryland-p1.html)
In addition, the “free” semester is actually a fabulous opportunity to go abroad. As an engineering student, it takes some good advance planning to make it work. They really encourage it and if it is at all of interest, really should be investigated as a freshman for long-range planning.
As for application time, I think each program may have their own guidelines but I really don’t think it’s sophomore year to apply…maybe sophomore year for some departmental honors program? What discipline is your son interested in?
It seems pretty consistent that all the programs are saying end of second semester junior year to apply, with some further defining it as no more than 24 credits left to complete in your major and no more than 6 credits to complete in gen eds…
OK, I was curious, so I looked on my son’s commencement program to give you a better answer about a second major with engineering. While minors were not listed, second majors and second degrees were noted. Interestingly, only the program for the main ceremony had this info, along with list of special programs like honors, scholars, QUEST, Hinman, Civicus, Beyond the Classroom, Global Communities, Jimenez-Porter Writer’s House, Language House Immersion, Departmental Honors, Athletic Certificates, various National Honor Societies, etc. So, keep this in the back of your mind four years from now that even if you don’t want to go to main ceremony (which I thought was well worth attending), try to at least grab a main commencement program if your son is involved in any special programs.
The departmental program was much smaller and only had names by discipline (no second major/degree) with engineering departmental honors, latin honors (cum laude) and participation in RISE noted.
Unfortunately, I would have no way of knowing how long it took for these students with 2nd majors or 2nd degrees to graduate (did they do it in 4 years or need to go an extra semester, a summer or extra year? no clue), but here’s the data fwiw for double major/second degree by engineering discipline (I was correct in stating CompSci and Mathematics were most common but was really surprised by some others, haha). Obviously, I wouldn’t have any way to compare to other years for same data, but hey, this is at least something. Hope it helps.
aerospace: 2nd degree - Mathematics (1) CompSci (1) Music Professional (1)
bioengineering: 2nd MAJOR(not degree) - CompSci (1)
2nd degree -economics (1) French (1) Psychology (1)
chemical: 2nd degree - Chemistry (2) Mathematics (1)
civil: none
computer engineering:2nd MAJOR(not degree) - CompSci (1)
2nd degree - Mathematics (1)
electrical: 2nd MAJOR(not degree) -Mathematics (2)
2nd degree - Physics (1) CompSci (2)
fire protection: none
materials science: 2nd degree- Physics (1) Chemistry (1)
mechanical: 2nd MAJOR(not degree) -CompSci (1)
2nd degree - Govt & Politics (1) Supply Chain Mgmt (1) Mathematics (2) Physics (1) Economics (1) CompSci (1) Music Professional (1)
Thank you, @maryversity, you are a wealth of good information! My son is starting this Fall, he wants to do ChemE, and is in the Gemstone program. He is also a Banneker Key scholar and is happy and excited to start soon. The semester abroad looks like a great opportunity----do you know where do most students go? I guess you may know about MechE, but maybe you heard about ChemE students? I’m curious about where are the options available, if the school has some special ties with one university abroad, more than with others. Thank you!
@ReminiscingDad - I have a son who did a dual degree program in 4 years - also Chem E, Gem, and B/K scholar - just like your son (but didn’t do study abroad). So, at least you have one data point that it is possible. It was really hard for him though. Also, keep in mind that if your son wants/plans to pursue post college education (e.g., phd/getting into research), he will have to spend a lot of time in the labs. Given there’s only 24 hours in a day, it gets overwhelming real quick - engineering is a hard major for anyone (yes, even B/K kids), adding another degree program makes it even harder, then the labs hours, and then trying to finish everything in 4 years. It does get pretty crazy. Best of luck to your son.
Wow, that’s awesome! Congrats to both of your sons on B/K and Gemstone!
@ReminiscingDad, as for study abroad, I know one of my friend’s sons did Netherlands (he’s in aerospace) and one of my son’s friends went there also (he’s electrical, also did Gemstone but not B/K). Another of my son’s friends did somewhere in England/Great Britain. The program that works best will be one that has a good amount of relevant (engineering) class options for your son. There are several universities in various locations and all have different options. Sure, you can kill off some gen eds without a problem with any program, but finding engineering courses you can take so you don’t fall behind is the trick. That’s why I said to look into it from day one. It’s easier for engineers to do as a freshman or sophomore than a junior or senior, imho. Something to consider is language spoken…even though most classes are taught in English, England, Australia and New Zealand will be easiest to navigate during free time because there is no language barrier outside the class (other than accent haha).
There are several options for study abroad (exchange programs or faculty led, etc, a whole semester or even as alternative, just winter or summer term - the short terms do not interfere with any class schedule!), and you have to apply early. If you want to see the options, start here http://globalmaryland.umd.edu/offices/education-abroad
Honestly, this was the only aspect/website of Maryland that wasn’t as straightforward as everything else at Maryland because you have to check out class transfer credits and classes that were approved sometimes have expiration dates. Very complicated to explain, so tell your son to talk with someone at school directly.
The guy who helps advise engineering students is a great guy, his name is Ramsey and here is his info:
Ramsey Jabaji, Assistant Director
rjabaji@umd.edu
301.405.0234
There also usually is a “Passport Day” held in the fall but they haven’t updated the site so I am not sure when the date is for this year. You have to register in advance for it though, so keep eyes open. One year they were actually processed for free for the first limited number to sign up, if I recall. Here is the link so you can see and maybe ask about at orientation? http://www.honors.umd.edu/passport.php
Other things for your son to put on his calendar:
Study Abroad Fair, Thursday, Sept 8
https://globalmaryland.umd.edu/offices/education-abroad/study-abroad-fair-1
Engineering Picnic - ALL engineering students should go to this!!!
http://www.ilp.umd.edu
@FromMD is correct that research takes a lot of time, but is also very rewarding. When he was in high school, my son didn’t think he would be interested in research (he equated the term research with writing papers) but in engineering, that’s where a good amountl of the hands-on action takes place!
Thank you @FromMD and congratulations to your son, what is he pursuing now? Is he working or doing a masters or PhD? Was he happy with his experience at UMD? I’m sure he also had other offers, did he ever regret his decision? Thank you
@maryversity thanks a million! I’ll share this with my son, he’s not the type of person who likes to go abroad but maybe he’ll be interested (I really hope so). Thank you for the contact information of the Assistant Director, is he advising on international exchange programs only or any other courses? Thank you
Just international exchange programs.
@ReminiscingDad - My son is a Phd student - but not at UMD. Was he happy with his experience at UMD? I think he understands, while it wasn’t his first choice school, it served him well and it prepared him to move on to the next level. He works with many PhD students in his program from top tier undergrad engineering programs. The fact that he graduated from UMD hasn’t really hurt him or put him in less advantageous position. He likes the fact he has no debt - BK was nice, PhD program is fully funded as well. So, yes, he is understanding things he didn’t when he was 18.
@FromMD thank you for the perspective. Did he get into the PhD program of his choice? The fact that he graduated from UMD didn’t hurt him seems to imply that it didn’t help him much. I’m sorry if I misunderstood. Did he get support from the Eng school and/or BK advisors to enter a PhD program? Thank you for any advice on what to be prepared for.
@ReminiscingDad - Sorry my post wasn’t clear. Yes, he did get into the PhD program of his choice. He was accepted into a number of schools (including UMD PhD program) but really wanted to get into one of top 3 schools on his list. The problem is that the top-tier engineering PhD programs are hard to get into and many schools (but not all) prefer kids from their own undergrad programs. So, the kids who want to get into the top-tier programs end up in a situation where they have to compete with the kids from MIT/Stanford/Cornell…etc. and it gets tough. As for support from the Engineering Dept or BK advisors, I don’t recall specific support they provided. I know he seeked guidance from his research professor who was very helpful. He also did a lot of self-researching trying to find the PhD program that fits his interest.
If your son is interested in getting his Phd, my advice would be - keep your GPA up, do research/lab work and get to know the professors, and really strong LOR. Please keep in mind this is my observations only and others may have different views.
@FromMD thank you, I see. Based on the BK page I thought it was relatively easy and/or even common for BK students to get into a competitive program at a top tier university.
So, the question is what is your son’s long range plan/ultimate goal?
Based on the original question of this thread, it sounds like your son is interested in maximizing the degrees in the minimum amount of time possible.
Based on your questions to FromMD, it sounds like you might be concerned about getting into a top tier university for grad school (since your son likely chose to give up admission at least one top tier university when he accepted B/K).
Is your son interested more in academia, working in the field, or possibly even going to med school?
I ask this because the reason for doing the combined degree of BS/MS at Maryland is the advantage of reducing time spent in school. This works well for someone chomping at the bit to work in the field of engineering as soon as possible and having the higher degree as an advantage when applying for jobs.
The reason for top tier university would be more for someone interested long-term academia/research field.
Finally, if there is an interest in med school, that’s a whole different animal. The name of the game for med school admissions is not where you go to school as much as gpa and mcat scores. Med schools could care less if you go to an ivy undergrad or a public university undergrad. They only care how you perform in college.
While the data for the class of 2016 isn’t published yet, here is the info from the graduation survey for 2015 - maybe this will help answer some questions? Engineering info starts on page 73 and the grad school info starts on page 77. I don’t know if there is data like this specific to B/K students, but I think you will find the engineering specifics more relevant as it shows where engineering students have been admitted to grad programs
http://careers.umd.edu/sites/careers.umd.edu/files/2015%20Graduation%20Survey%20Report_3.pdf
It does look like they have honors college (of which B/K is a subset) on page 103 if that helps…
@ReminiscingDad - Just to follow-up… I think @maryversity’s post is spot on. It really depends on what your son’s end goal is. Different planning for different end objective…
UMD students DO get into competitive programs at top-tier schools. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. My point was, at least for my son’s case, it required meticulous planning and hard work for 4 years. I also don’t think student’s status as a BK scholar (or Honors, Gemstone,…etc.) plays significant role getting into one of those programs (my personal view). It has everything to do with working hard and proving your worth when the time comes. Once the class starts on the first day, all freshmen are standing at the same start line. 
Good luck to your son.
@maryversity and @FromMD thank you for the information and the feedback! I’m asking questions to learn more about options, and to get some of your perspectives from your own experiences. I don’t think my son knows what he wants to do yet, other than to do Chem Eng. He may change later, nobody knows. @FromMD the BK page talks about special advising and planning to apply for scholarships for post-graduate programs that students get and the page features those scholars, that’s what my comment was about.