<p>I truly believe that it can’t hurt to ask for more. Certainly if you are flying it try to use the time most effectively. Speak with the profs and the music admissions office and explain your situation. I always made school arrangements first and travel arrangements second.</p>
<p>My point about the pieces to work with during a visit is that she must have some repertoire at her disposal, even if it is from last year. They don’t have to be perfect and rough is fine as well (as in “I just stated learning this piece”, “I’ll be performing this at a recital is 5 months”). I believe that you want the college prof to see your child learning during a lesson, profs will be impressed by how your child absorbs a lesson, the interaction and familiarity with the instrument, theory knowledge and lesson participation. Professors are not looking for diamonds, they are looking for coal with potential. It really is important to remember, as said before, it is a lesson not an audition.</p>
<p>Another thing to keep in mind is that, based on one sample lesson, it is still a leap of faith to think that a student has found the perfect teacher. There is no way someone can know that from one - or two - or even several lessons. You make the best choice you can, but there is no guarantee that you have found the best teacher for the next 4 years. That is why I suggest you always find out the policy a school has with regard to switching teachers. The best way to find this out is to talk to current or former students. My D’s private voice teacher has worked with at least 2 kids who left schools because of poor teacher fit but learned, too late, that leaving was easier than switching. These kids had taken the sample lessons, received recommendations, done everything right, but the fit was not there. These were kids who were with very well regarded teachers who, for one reason or another, were not able or willing to work with them in establishing a basic, healthy technique. </p>
<p>So for those of you out there thinking that you are at a huge disadvantage because you either can’t afford the time or the money to take a ton of sample lessons, take heart and remember “the best laid plans of mice and men” often go awry.</p>
<p>You also need to find out the school policy about ASSIGNING the private studio instructor. Some schools do not allow the students to put a preference at all…some schools allow the student to put a preference but do not guarantee that studio…some schools allow the student to put a preference and that is used by the faculty to help determine the studio assignment…and some schools allow the student to choose the studio to which they are auditioning.</p>
<p>I’ve said it before, what works for one does not work for all. From the point of an instrumentalist, 25 seems an unwieldy number, even if a student counted “exploratory lessons” done at immersion programs, festivals or in conjunction with masterclasses outside of on campus visits. Many students target immersion participation as a means of trying out perspective teachers for undergrad and grad consideration.</p>
<p>Some of us (binx and thumper included) have students now in grad school or done, and auditioning or even now employed as performing instrumentalists. Having been through and around the processes for a while, the number cited was in excess of what appears to be the commonality of experience. Notice I did not say “norm”. Again, this is from an instrumentalist’s standpoint.</p>
<p>The number at first glance can easily elicit a “WOW” moment, and the first time or casual reader can leave pulling out their hair trying to figure out how they can accomplish a quarter of that, given logistics, time and resources. The key point is to maximize your allocation of resources, regardless of the paucity (or depth) of the pot. </p>
<p>The collective knowledge and experiences detailed on this forum is what makes it work. Nothing is cast in stone, and take all advice with a grain of salt. Sift through it, and use what works for your student.</p>
<p>Yet another thing to keep in mind - some of the advice given is instrument specific. Few of us have a lot of experience in the process for several instruments. The advice for instruments of any kind can be very different for voice, largely because irreparable harm can be done to the voice so healthy technique trumps everything else. Performance opportunities, reputation of the school, the studio, success of former grads - none of that matters if someone is not developing a healthy technique. The other difference is the time it takes for the voice to mature. That is why, with regard to voice, the undergrad teacher can indeed trump everything. Time and time again, when the background of successful singers is examined, you find schools that you’ve never heard of or even a school that doesn’t offer a music major. An acquaintance of mine who has been a successful performer for many years took private lessons throughout undergrad but didn’t major in music. She then received her artist diploma from a well known school. It seems to me that the path for singers is often more varied than for some instruments.</p>
<p>jsmom, I’d concur with binx on this. Northwestern is arguably one of the toughest trumpet admits (both musically and academically). I don’t recall his current grade level from prior postings, but feedback now can position a search for private instruction (or a change of teachers), and an objective assessment of potential within the audition pool based on his current level.</p>
<p>And, it doesn’t have to be “new” rep, or rep from the audition requirements. A polished piece previously performed that shows level, technique, and ability, plus a work in progress will suffice. </p>
<p>Again, it’s not an audition, but an informational lesson.</p>
<p>As preparation for audition time at Northwestern or anywhere for that matter, I would urge ongoing private lessons at the highest level possible.</p>
<p>/\ /\ I must say that my daughter, a cellist, was treated exactly the same way as sagiter’s son the low-brass player everywhere she went for practice lessons, and later, for auditions. Even at big-name conservatories, where she was one of maybe 100 kids auditioning that day (on all instruments), the studios where she auditioned or played went as far out of their way as possible to make her feel at home. When she went for practice lessons she was also invited to sit in on studio classes, other student’s lessons, etc. Even on audition day/weekend, there were opportunities to get to know other kids in the studio(s). </p>
<p>I can’t solve the conundrum of how they can make the experience like that for all the kids that audition during a busy audition weekend - maybe we just picked schools very carefully and she was a lukewarm-to-hot commodity at the few she auditioned at…and if she had stretched to the top-5 she would have had a cooler reception. Anyway, don’t be intimidated. </p>
<p>One of the things I asked her to do during visits was to pay attention to the current student’s playing level and ask herself if she was more or less in the right place. I do believe that if you pick your target schools carefully and you are a good fit, you can expect the school/teacher to make a pretty good effort to show you the ‘family’ side of joining them. Conservatory training is very much like becoming someone’s apprentice - you do sort of join the studio ‘family’, so you’d better like it.</p>
<p>We never heard the ‘only one lesson on a visit’ rule, and it sounds perfectly ridiculous. She was an airplane ride away from <em>all</em> her visited/auditioned at schools, and she arranged a lesson with every teacher on her instrument who seemed like a good fit. No-one ever said boo about that.</p>
<p>About the school assigning a teacher…yes but. This is where it’s good to have acceptances from more than one school in hand, so you can do a little negotiating. I believe it’s perfectly fair to say “I need to know what studio you will place me in before I can commit to coming” – unless you’re willing to take potluck because you really truly liked all the faculty you met…</p>
<p>Jsmom, is your son planning to audition for classical or jazz trumpet? At the risk of offending any families of jazz students, I had the impression that some of the things schools might look for in a jazz applicant (e.g., ability to improvise, collaborate with other jazz musicians) might mean that if the student was already strong in jazz performance, preparing for the audition might take a bit less time to learn repertoire than the student preparing for classical audition. Again, I’m waiting to hear replies to the effect that I am slighting jazz performers in some way, and that is not the case. On the other hand, if what I said is true, and he wants to study jazz trumpet, I am not as worried about your son’s situation. But if he has to learn all the classical repertoire required by the programs in time for the auditions, he will need to work hard this summer to get all the music learned in time. Maybe he learns fast, and it won’t be a problem, but for anyone who has a tendency to get anxious, having the music learned and polished well ahead of deadlines is really important. </p>
<p>Many schools have a requirement of sending in a prescreening dvd or cd, from which a subset of students will be invited to auditions. For some schools, this requirement is only for certain instruments, and IT CAN CHANGE AT ANY TIME. Even a school that has no such requirement now may decide to add it next year. (A couple of places we visited in the spring mentioned that they may add the prescreening requirement because of the high volume of applicants.) To be sure of meeting the possibility of a prescreening deadline, which is usually Dec. 1, all audition repertoire would have to be learned completely (for some instruments that means memorized) recorded and mailed to the school in a little less than six months. </p>
<p>The discussion about number of sample lessons, choosing the teacher from sample lessons, etc. is not directly relevant to Jsmom’s situation but seems to be one of the “top ten” most popular topics discussed here! But I never read anything here about the situation in which there are large numbers of faculty for the instrument played by the prospective music major. I just looked at some of the schools my high school junior is looking at and there are typically 8 and up to 12 faculty who teach classical piano in these schools. I think it would take an incredible amount of research to discern information that would be relevant to good fit with student and far too expensive/time consuming to have sample lessons with so many teachers. </p>
<p>I think the idea of participating in summer programs in which some of these instrumental faculty teach/perform and also attending master classes and studio classes when visiting a music school also can give useful information about the personalities and teaching style of faculty.</p>
<p>Summer festival participation is one way to learn about teachers. Both of my son’s applied teachers (undergrad and grad) were his teachers at a summer festival.</p>
<p>Thanks. Rigaudon he is classical trumpet. He plays in high school jazz band and other bands at school and spends his summers in a music program playing classical music and participates in a fairly competitive regional youth orchestra. He currently takes lessons with an instructor at a nearby college that has a strong music dept. After reading more about Northwestern even I am intimidated and I’m not even the student! My son has very strong SAT scores (2300) is a good student (all honors/AP classes) all A’s and B’s. And very involved in music and other extracurricular activities. I think Northwestern would be a longshot - but you don’t know unless you try…</p>
<p>Northwestern is one of the schools that also has an “academic threshold” for music admissions. A 2300 SAT and all A’s and B’s would likely meet that threshold. Then there is the audition. When my son auditioned for grad school, there were 80 or so who auditioned for 2 or 3 spots. He tried anyway and was glad he did. In the end, he just received his masters degrees from another program (where he studied with a very preferred teacher). </p>
<p>For undergrad, his auditions included two conservatories, and five music programs within university settings. All had ensembles that worked for him. One thing he felt was very important for orchestral studies was the strength of the STRINGS program. Without strong strings, the orchestra will sound…well…not so terrific. So in addition to looking for the right studio for trumpet, he also was looking for a school with a strong strings program and orchestra.</p>
<p>Here again – my experience is different than yours, thumper1. When we called and met with Northwestern’s music admissions department on several different occassions, we were were told that the minimum acceptable SAT score was 1100 (I guess equivalent to 1750 with three exams) and a 3.0 average. So, all the more reason for prospective applicants and their parents to make sure they have the most current and cogent information. There was also a broad discrepancy in the Northwestern scholarship information that people were getting. So, it could be that Northwestern is one of those schools that has inconsistent information. This is information also.</p>
<p>Cartera: You hit it right on the button. Thank you. Voice is different. And it was very important for my daughter to try to do the best she could to find the right teacher and to find out what the world of “right teacher” was. She had such a good experience with her current teacher, she didn’t want anything to work against the training she had already received. Thank you also, memake, for bringing some additional context to the multiple practice lesson issue. I agree that not everyone has to do what we did visiting multiple schools with multiple lessons. But I would no sooner label one parent’s approach as being “restrictive” as accepting our approach as being “excessive.”</p>
<p>I’m not sure how this disagrees with what I posted…I said that a 2100 SAT would LIKELY meet the threshold for academic admission. I never commented at all about the LOWER end of the NU threshold…not at all. I did say that there is an academic admission standard for NU…students must be academically accepted…but I didn’t state the bottom end of that threshold because I don’t know it.</p>
<p>Please KeyofH…let’s stop this bickering. Your daughter has done some wonderful things and is clearly dedicated to her music. And you to helping her achieve her goals. Both are gifts that many of the parents on this forum share with you and your daughter. She has chosen a school where she can thrive and grow musically.</p>
<p>Not bickering, thumper1. Just stating that I received information different than yours. Just as I received different scholarship information at NU than other people did. As I stated, the variance in information is unto itself information and something that newbies might want to beware of. It doesn’t necessarily make my information more right than yours or the reverse true. It’s just something to be cautious about for those pursuing admission to Northwestern.</p>
<p>somehow we got off topic of sample lessons. And not to further add to the debate, but when WE were at NU, we were told that the applicant first had to clear their audition. Then, those who did well on audition would be forwarded to the academic side, and the academic people would then pick their students. It would stand to reason that, even though they have an academic minimum, they are going to be getting applicants that are way above that. In California, the minimum GPA to be accepted at a UC is 3.0. Very few people with a 3.0 have a prayer of getting into at least 7 of 10 of the UC campuses. Agree with the need to check with admissions to clarify this. My experience is, you get different answers based on how you ask the questions. </p>
<p>This discussion has really gotten off track…I would recommend that students do sample lessons whenever and wherever it makes sense for them. My D did pre-application lessons which helped whittle down the schools, at least one the day before an audition which was really valuable as she did not like the one teacher she would have been assigned (turned down that school), and even did one after acceptance in order to make her final decision and request a studio. You learn alot. Don’t worry about having perfect pieces. It is your chance to interview the teachers.</p>