<p>@heather don’t beat yourself up! i didn’t mean to annoy you, only to give my opinion. you sound like a very high achiever w/ a decent chance of getting in, probably more chance than me. if you don’t apply you’ll have no chance of getting in, and it’s better to have some chance than none if you like the school.</p>
<p>I think that college essays are supposed to be incredibly unique and personal, so if your essay can be easily plagiarized, then it might not be personal enough.</p>
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<p>The Common App essay, yes. But there are some supplement prompts that don’t demand a personal essay (though you could write one).</p>
<p>Chicago states on its extended essay advice page that right is what’s right for you. </p>
<p>HH, my point is that hs kids have experience writing high school papers. This is different. Same goes for “chances.”</p>
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<p>One of the reasons younger siblings have a leg-up in the college applications process is that their older brother or sister and parents have been through it already. If the older sibling’s college applications were successful, there is a high probability that the parents might know what worked and didn’t work the first time around. And that experience can help as they guide their younger child(ren) through the process. </p>
<p>I don’t know this to be a fact, but I’m going to make a guess that the vast majority of adults on College Confidential are parents who have been through the college application process at least once with their child. Which is why asking an adult on College Confidential may yield better results than asking another teenager for feedback – especially if that teenager who is offering to give advice is going through the process for the first time themselves.</p>
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<p>I was referring more to parents and teachers in real life. My parents don’t know anything about college admissions. (And they might be less inclined to criticize me than other people anyway.) I’ve had teachers read my essays, and they just said they were good because most of the kids in the school can barely write a coherent sentence. </p>
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<p>High school teachers have experience teaching how to write high school papers, not college essays.
If a kid is a decent writer (a lot of us aren’t) and they’ve written a few college essays, there’s no reason they can’t have some idea of what’s being looked for. It’s fairly straightforward…tell us something we don’t already know about you, and write well. People aren’t limited to one genre.
The chances are usually pretty arbitrary and I doubt adults do them any better. Though the “chance me and I’ll chance you back” thing bothers me, because assessing your own chances of admission based on statistics isn’t the same as trying to criticize your own writing.</p>
<p>Heather, how many college essays have you read? Enough to critique another hs kid on how his essay meets adcoms’ needs and expectations? Or, just how it stands up based on your own hs experience? So, the same goes for another high schooler reading yours. It is not as simple as, “tell us something about you and write well.” While some kids can do that, it is “show us what WE need to see in you.” More important, college admissions is NOT peer review.</p>
<p>The reason I am sticking with you over a few threads is that you are clearly bright, you write well and have an interesting perspective on life. Not to frazzle you. I’m hoping you succeed.</p>
<p>If the best a kid can locate is a hs teacher, at least the better ones have seen many college essays, over the years. Not all of them and not all CC adults. </p>
<p>The point is to appeal to adcoms, to show the time-proven personal strengths and qualities they need in their freshman class. There is a strategic element. And, yes, even with a perfect essay and other written portions, grades and activities, there are few guarantees.</p>
<p>I think I remember few years ago someone posted his Yale essay was plagiarized by his good friend who was also applying to Yale. He only found out because Yale wanted him to prove he was original writer of the essay. He said he shared his essay with his friend to get friend’s feedback. Because they shared so many similar ECs and experience in high school, it was hard for the adcom to figure out who actually wrote the essay. </p>
<p>No, I don’t think it is safe to share one’s essays with other applicants. They may not use the exact essay, but there is always a possibility they could write something similar with their own experience.</p>
<p>I knew a valedictorian, a good candidate for her targets, who posted on another forum and saw 50% lifted. I had seen her essay early, knew it was her work. Then found the reworked version from another kid.</p>
<p>I don’t worry so much about the lifting, because I advocate not sharing with other applicants. My concern is the quality and relevance of the advice received.</p>
<p>My kid did work with a word-rearranger. She told my kid that adcoms want to see she could write at college level, at the same time to let her personality come through.</p>
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<p>Many students, who’s family’s can afford it, have their essays looked over by a word-rearranger – which puts those kids who can’t afford it at a disadvantage. But I suspect that Admissions Directors are aware of that fact, and take that into consideration when looking at a family’s resources (ie. a family that has the money to send their child to a foreign country to help the poor is also probably sending them to a word-rearranger). Lookingforward can speak more directly to that point, as I suspect s/he works, or worked, in an Admissions office.</p>
<p>It’s difficult to presume, can be unfair. Any kid may have gotten some help from, say, a teacher or a non-pro adult, with editing and polishing. And, that’s ok. But yes, sometimes pretty obvious that this kid may not have written that essay. Or done that EC. Not good. Btw, there are many ways high achieving/low SES kids get support, too. The issue of help maybe needs it’s own thread, for a longer conversation.</p>
<p>Sort of off-topic question: How much editing help can you get before it’s considered unfair? I think it’s sort of…iffy when people pay others to edit their essays, but I’m sure parents sometimes “edit” essays for free and basically rewrite them. </p>
<p>So what actually happens when two people send the same essay? Do they just both get rejected from the college they sent it to, or can they get “blacklisted” from other colleges? Say if someone plagiarized one of my non-personal essays (which is possible, though unlikely) and I couldn’t prove I wasn’t the plagiarist…what’s the worst that could happen to me?</p>
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<p>Probably somewhere between 25 and 50, on here. Mostly I just look at grammar/wording, and I tell them I probably shouldn’t be taken all that seriously. The Common App essay is supposed to be personal, so I know it isn’t good when an essay isn’t really about the applicant. I know it isn’t good when an essay doesn’t answer the prompt. The basic stuff is common sense.
As I’ve said before, I think adults are much better critics because they understand the nuances of the process a lot more than teenagers, but I think peer review can be useful if it weeds out smaller grammar/wording errors before adults help with content. Of course, it comes with a risk of plagiarism if you’re the exact same age and/or applying to the same colleges.</p>
<p>Good essay tutors do not write essays for applicants, they make sure applicant’s voice comes through loud and clear. I have read quite a few essays from students on this board - great stats, smart students, but some of those essays read as “trying too hard” - with a lot of big words and very pretentious. After few suggestions, most students were able to write essays which sounded more like them and more readable. I think it would be quite hard for anyone to know if those essays were word-arranged by someone. Students who went to decent public high schools have access to people who could help them with their essays, whether paid or not. If they should choose not to utilize their options then they have no one else to blame. Contrary to popular believe, adcoms’ job is not to level the playing field for people, their job is admit students who could do well at their school.</p>
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<p>But presumably it’s not ideal when someone’s perceived ability to do well has been artificially inflated.
(I realize more affluent people have all sorts of advantages over non-affluent people re: college admissions, so it’s not just about essays, but still.)</p>
<p>I agree with oldfort. A good essay helper, imo, is a guide, will point these things out or other stylistic choices to consider, then leave the decisions to the student. Strengthens the student’s ability, going forward. It’s a skill set not everyone has, yet.</p>
<p>And, to be frank, not all charge.</p>
<p>HH, you asked how much editing is fair. We’re not talking about taking over. This really isn’t much different than the process in science or engineering, where one asks someone knowledgeable to review for comments. Or in the writing profession. Or, academia. Or when you write your first resume. In fact, it is wise to seek the right support, not assume.</p>
<p>It is a whole 'nother matter when someone put the words on paper for you.</p>
<p>And, I don’t mean to oversell. It does seem that you get the point of the essays. The biggest problem I see, other than big, clunky words, is inadvertently presenting a negative or taking such pains to set the scene or set details, that the admissions reviewer has no idea where you’re going.</p>
<p>(Does anyone have any insight on my other question, about what colleges do when two people send the same essay?)</p>
<p>^^ It probably varies from case to case, and from college to college. See post #28 in this thread.</p>
<p>I think if they like either one of the applicants, they may bother to find out who was the author, otherwise they may just say no to both.</p>
<p>This past spring I was going through 500+ resumes for summer interns. I read one very well written cover letter and thought it looked familiar. I went through the resumes and found one other resume with the exact same cover letter. I googled the letter and found it as a sample letter on a website. We just told both applicants “thanks, but no thanks.”</p>
<p>A college may get 20k+ applications, but most likely they will have one rep to read all applications from one particular region, especially from the same high school.</p>