<p>is it true that being a minority helps so much at uva, and that uva has the highest minority acceptance rate in the nation?</p>
<p>Doubt it. It won't hurt and they apparently have the highest graduation rate (tied with UNC) for minorities, not sure what schools are included, just public universities or more, but off the top of my head I can think of schools with simply higher minority admittance rates, just due to demographics.</p>
<p>It's possible that one of the stats got turned around a little bit. The graduation rate for African American students at UVa is higher than the rate at any other public school in the country.</p>
<p>Dean J - Could you please post on the waitlist threads some info. about what the current status of the waitlist is and when UVA is likely to make decisions about the waitlist?</p>
<p>yeah I don't think minority will help in UVa as much as in some schools really lack diversity.</p>
<p>honestly, it depends on the minority. Remember, UVa only <em>really</em> wants to be diverse as it has to be. Virginia has a much higher proportion of black students then UVa has, so its much easier to get into UVa when you're black. However, UVa has like a 3% or 4% hispanic rate--which is right around the state of virginia. Hispanics get very little boost because of that--UVa doesn't 'need' any more.</p>
<p>there is a study--its now about 5 years old--but it basically shows what it takes to get into UVa if you're black/white/hispanic/asian. using white as a barometer, its harder to get in if you're asian, <em>EXTREMELY</em> easier to get in if you're black, and no significant difference if you're hispanic.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ceousa.org/pdfs/VAS%20Report.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.ceousa.org/pdfs/VAS%20Report.pdf</a></p>
<p>i'm sure little has changed since then.</p>
<p>jags thanks for the link. I can't say I have been more infuriated by any other single document in my life.</p>
<p>It's easy to criticize UVA but nothing for Mason in there? I'm willing to bet they don't totally discount race and use only objective factors. This study is five years old - and yet UVA is still thriving. People still apply at a very good rate. So apparently the admissions standards and practices set for the school, work for the school. If the URMs who apply have lower SATs, what is UVA supposed to do, admit NO URMs because they just look straight at SAT scores? There is clearly a racial disparity in Va if URMs are not approximately represented at the top schools.</p>
<p>Of course there is more to it than sat scores... but not enough to make up for those figures. Are you telling me that black applicants are so much more self selecting than whites that they have 2ce the acceptance rate? Are you saying that every one admitted with a low SAT score is just a 'bad test taker'. Thats crap and you know it.</p>
<p>Just look at the stats on the site, 50% of blacks with a 950-1050 SAT admitted, as opposed to 15% of whites in the same range. IMO, you would have to be a pretty bad test taker to get those scores and be of UVa quality. But there is not a chance that half the black people with a 1000 sat were just poor test takers but were in fact brilliant community leaders (not that I think the 15% of whites were). Compare that to the 90% of blacks with a 1250-1350 score admitted as opposed to just over 30% of whites. Again, you can't tell me that 'SAT scores aren't everything' because those differences are remarkable. But then again, there may be some study that says "78.256% of minority UVa applicants were valedictorians who started their own business, raised 10k for their community, and happened to be bad test takers" and I would be completely off base...</p>
<p>Certainly the answer is not to 'just look straight at sat scores.' But seriously, the next thing to look at shouldn't be race... that should be the last thing looked at if its even looked at at all (and IMO shouldn't be, they should take the box off the app, thats the same reason I put 'decline to respond' to race on every one of my apps even though I am technically part black(a small part), but I digress)</p>
<p><em>edit</em>
and yeah, the data is kind of old, so I'll give you that, but its alarming nonetheless, and I can't imagine their practices have changed all that much. Besides, there are many other schools that this applies to that haven't had these revealing stats researched</p>
<p>Wow! I can understand giving URM's a boost but there is a point at which things become unfair in reverse</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are you saying that every one admitted with a low SAT score is just a 'bad test taker'. Thats crap and you know it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't know anything. I don't work in UVA admissions. I'm pretty sure most of the people who have commented in this thread don't either. But from a distance, they sure don't seem to be doing too terribly. </p>
<p>We only have a small window into all they see. They have to do their best to admit the best class they can. This does not mean the most perfect class. It means the best class for furthering the school. That means they have to take into account race. They have to take into background. It seems as far as I am aware that the majority admitted to UVA by far are white. Life isn't fair, but that's the way things are. This isn't an open admissions program, and it isn't a ranking program based on completely objective material. This information right there tells us there are going to be decisions made in the interests of maintaining a balance throughout the class. </p>
<p>UVA's graduation rate for the students identified as having such sub-par SATs is quite high, as alluded to earlier in this thread. That would indicate that UVA is admitting students with potential who were not able to reach full potential in high school, but that the admissions committee has chosen students who mainly succeed. If they were offered admission, they were clearly deemed to be of "UVa quality", as "UVa quality" is a measured defined and carried out by the UVa admissions committees after taking into account all the factors they have.</p>
<p>That "report" was written with a specific intent. That's all the time I care to give to it.</p>
<p>princedog,</p>
<p>the argument you present doesn't exactly work. There are plenty of kids who go to mediocre schools who could graduate just fine from harvard. The hardest part of elite colleges is getting in. I have no doubt in my mind that someone who was a B student in high school with 1000 on his SATs could come to UVa, major in sociology or education, and graduate just fine. 2 kids from my high school came to UVa after me to play football. Neither had over a 78 GPA (below 75 was failing at my high school), and neither had over 1000 on his SATs. I'm sure they'll graduate from UVA.</p>
<p>deanj,</p>
<p>you can not comment on the report if you want, but the answers are quite clear. its a joke to get into UVa if you're black. if that was the intent of the report, then it was quite easily made. Hey, I'm sure its like this at lots of schools--just they don't have a report like this with bar graphs showing how ridiculously easy it is to get into UVa for a black student.</p>
<p>I guess you lived all those students' lives and know how "ridiculously easy" and a "a joke" it was for them to arrive at that outcome, and how UVa decided they were worthy of admission. </p>
<p>So lots of people can do something there are limited spots for. My point exactly. At that point the admissions committee, choosing who gets these limited spots, must use a great deal of information, to the best of their ability, and come up with the most useful class they can for the school, who can graduate. Since race is clearly a factor in our society (though many may want to deny that), then I guess it makes a great deal of sense that one of the many factors they would consider, keeping in mind America's cultural, demographic, and political factors, would be race. This is reality. Everyone wants a utopian society where race isn't a factor less than a generation after African Americans secured their voting rights in this country. It doesn't work like that, unfortunately. Once again, if people think UVa admissions is such a joke and doing a terrible job, then they are not required to apply. However they do, because apparently UVa admissions ISN'T a joke and doing such a terrible job.</p>
<p>My largest problem with giving students a helping hand that had a disadvantaged childhood comes when you begin deciding that race is any indicator of how advantaged you were growing up. Not only does this falsely assume that most-all strong black students are disadvantaged (socioeconomic conditions might be a better metric) but it discredits any white or asian students who had to struggle coming up. When I see a black person who had everything handed to them get in to an elite school over a white person who grew up extremely poor and had to overcome obstacles to be a strong candidate (and yes, I have seen it happen numerous times) then there is something wrong with the judging criterion.</p>
<p>and of course the study was written with a purpose, but that really doesn't contradict that it presents facts.</p>
<p>Its pretty unfortunate that people can look at a report that gives out a few numbers and be so easily swayed into believing that UVA just gives out acceptances to black applicants. If this report is pointed as Dean J alluded to, then take what it says with a grain of salt and stop acting as if it is the end-all of UVA admissions. The report was done 5 years ago, on one admissions cycle, and selectively chooses only SATs and Admit rate numbers, both if which are highly misleading. SATs can be mastered by anyone who is willing to pay for it. </p>
<p>Ehuinno: if this report is the most infuriating document you have read then that is pretty sad. I hope that you wrote that as a spur-of-moment thing. And actually if the purpose of the report was to say "Blacks got it easy" then it does matters. They can manipulate the facts they have, leave some out and wa-laa you have a great and "insightful" report.</p>
<p>My personal observation, which is all I have to go by in any case, is that admissions does consider socio-economic status and having to overcome obstacles regardless of race. Even if an African American has a fairly comfortable lifestyle financially, it does mean their life was the same as someone who is not a minority. There have been numerous reports in American (perhaps more enlightening than this document) about, say, black men who have been stopped for driving in their own neighborhoods, because it was presumed their car was stolen or they didn't belong there. In fact around here there was a black man who owned his own business arrested for car theft - he was driving his own car, and then they didn't follow procedure and he didn't get a fair chance to find a lawyer. He spent several years in jail before finally being acquitted. He looked nothing like what the suspect was known to look like: there was one similarity, they were both black men. He was driving an expensive car and they had to arrest someone, I guess. </p>
<p>When trying to admit a class that is representative of experience, that is a good solid class representing many interests in many ways, race is still a factor in 2007. This would be obvious to the most casual observer I would think. They don't do this because it's fun, or because it's amusing, or because it's even a popular idea since most people hold fast to the "but there is no racism today! No more race! This is just reverse discrimination!" They do it because whatever they're doing is apparently working. I say "whatever" because this report obviously has an agenda and I think the case of the ease of getting into UVa for certain subgroups has been way overstated.</p>
<p>just to clarify a few things.</p>
<p>The report is only 2 and a half years old, I said 5 years off the cuff. The admissions data is from the class which just graduated this week. Little has changed.</p>
<p>Princedog and The Truth,</p>
<p>say what you want, but the numbers speak for themselves. Unless all these kids saved thousands of lives in south east asia, its a lot easier to get into UVa is you're black. I highly doubt only black kids are the disadvantaged ones, Princedog. The fact is, they get big boosts because they're black. The standards are obviously dropped for the 2 most important parts of one's application--SATs and GPA. The facts speak for themselves:</p>
<p>"I think the case of the ease of getting into UVa for certain subgroups has been way overstated."</p>
<p>if you're black, have between a 3.3-3.7, and scored 1050-1150 on your SATs, you had an 86% chance of getting admitted. It drops to 8% if you're white. A black student with a 3.8 and a 1150, you are in, enough said.</p>
<p>if that isn't significant enough to be overstated, I don't know what is.</p>
<p>Thanks Jags, i made a post but it didn't come up. Close enough.</p>
<p>to Truth, yeah I said that on impulse. it was more meant to be a hyperbole than anything, but my point stands.</p>
<p>My ultimate point is that UVa is doing well. So no matter how "easy" or "hard" it is for an individual applicant to get in, in the end, the admissions committee isn't failing to do their job.</p>