<p>I'm a sophomore in high school (Class of 13!) and right now I'm especially interested in majoring in architecture. Assuming that I did get into Cornell's B.Arch program, would it even be worth it? The tuition adds up to nearly 50k per year (my parents make approx 100k) and I heard that starting salaries are only around 36k! Wouldn't it be wiser to attend a state college at like 15k a year and still get the same starting salaries? How would going to Cornell benefit me in any way?</p>
<p>kcd, Private vs Public is a difficult question in any discipline not just architecture. The first thing I would do is ask your parents to use an on line calculator to get an idea of how much NEED based aid you may be eligible for at Cornell. An income of $100K is too much for a lot of aid, but if there are other circumstances – like siblings in college at the same time – you may qualify for enough to level the financial playing field.</p>
<p>Aside from the money, Cornell has excellent an reputation and good connections worldwide, so in theory, a Cornell degree should help you land a job with a good firm. Some State U’s also have prestigious architecture programs, but then some do not. It depends on the luck of geography.</p>
<p>For bachelors its better to go somewhere more easily affordable because employers do not care much about where you did you undergrad. For a masters go to Cornell if you are accepted.</p>
<p>^^That advice is not necessarily so if one earns a BArch which is a professional degree not requiring graduate school to become an architect. Cornell has a BArch program and so in that case, the reputation of the undergraduate program does have some significance.</p>
<p>starting salaries are more geographic based. If you are in NYC, you should be able to command a somewhat higher salary. </p>
<p>That said, it’s going to be hard paying back a $100-200k loan (hypothetical) with a starting architect’s salary no matter where you are. </p>
<p>In a lot of cases, it DOES matter where you went to school, especially in the early years in your career. I know of firms that only hire graduates of a specific school.</p>
<p>It really depends on what you really, really want. If you go into architecture, it’s not going to be the most financially lucrative profession, even after you’ve been in it for a long while.</p>
<p>Btw I live in Texas and UTAustin has a pretty decent arch program. Ranked #5 nationwide, I believe?</p>
<p>kcd you are lucky that you live in a state with a very good public architecture school. For me the choice between UT Austin with no debt, and Cornell with $100k+ of debt would be easy; UT Austin. Cornell is a very good school which will provide some nice connections, but not enough to offset that kind of debt.</p>
<p>Debt takes away your options. Want to work for that small funky firm in NYC that doesn’t pay much, take some time off to travel after graduation, get married and buy that nice little house, or eventually go to Columbia or Harvard for graduate school? All that is going to be very difficult to do with a $1,000 a month loan payment.</p>
<p>Many years ago when I was in New York, the best firms tended to hire at the same schools; the Iveys for grad school, and Cornell, UVA, RISD, and Rice for undergrad. The last few years I have been competing with KPF and SOM to hire the best graduates out of schools like UT and K State (though there wasn’t much competition last year). The country has become much smaller and many regional differences have been reduced.</p>
<p>rick</p>
<p>Its certainly a good idea as an architect to have little debt if possible.</p>
<p>At 100k the prospect of need based financial aid should not be ruled out.</p>
<p>At some private schools (not the ivies though) merit based aid is also available. </p>
<p>I think if there is a top private school you are interested in, it may be worth applying, and then weighing the two packages.</p>
<p>Also, consider where you want to work. I bet UT profs have great connections at firms in Houston and Dallas, so if thats where you want to go after graduation, it may be as good in terms of connections as a private school in the NE.</p>
<p>Thanks guys! All your advice has really given me some insight into the whole debt vs. prestige debate. One of my biggest problems though, and most people don’t understand this, is that I’m Chinese and getting into an Ivy or some other highly prestigious school is almost like a family duty (its mostly about bragging rights, LOL). Another reason why I might prefer Cornell over UT is I don’t want all those late nights of studying and my near social suicide to be for nothing when I end up going to the same party school with the same obnoxious slackers who make fun of “nerds”. I know that I have a HUGE decision ahead of me and these problems seem trivial compared to a 100k debt, but like my parents say: “it’s not all about the money”.</p>
<p>BTW, is there an “in between” type of college with a prestigious architecture program? Like what about Rice and Carnegie Mellon?</p>
<p>Here is a listing of the top ten (averaged from 2004 through 2010) schools of architecture (with BArch programs) as ranked by Design Intelligence:
- Cornell
- Cal State - SLO
- Syracuse
- Va Tech
- Rice
- UT - Austin
- RISD
- Kansas State
- Carnegie Mellon (CMU)
- Penn State</p>
<p>This is only one ranking system, and it will mean something for some people and nothing for other people. Some of those schools may rate higher than others on the “prestige” ranking, but they’re all quite good schools overall. Note that the listing is a blend of private AND public schools. You need to decide where you will fit the best. Just remember, it’s you going to school, not your parents. (I know, I know, it’s easy for me to say that…)</p>
<p>a good Arch school (about #20 in the Design Intell ranking, which even I have learned alot of folks dont respect) that does offer merit aid, and that will be very nerd friendly, is RPI.</p>
<p>It won’t have the “prestige” that a Cornell will have though.</p>
<p>I would suggest applying to both public (in-state and OOS) and private and then do a spreadsheet analysis. That is what we did with my son. With the financial aid he received from the private universities, the net cost was better at a private (USC). I did a cost analysis of private (5-year BArch–USC and Syracuse), public OOS (5-year BArch–Penn State), public in-state (4+2 we are in Illinois–U of I, and U of Cincinnati), community college then university, public (4+3, non-architecture then MArch). With the grants from the private, it was no contest. The total debt while a little high, was less at the private in my son’s case.</p>
<p>kcdecember, I understand that culturally, your parents put a lot of pressure for you to attend an Ivy or elite college. Keep in mind, however, (and you may have to educate them about this) that when you apply to specialized degree programs, often prestigious PROGRAMS are not necessarily located within highly selective universities. But people in the field (in this case, architecture) KNOW that the program is prestigious, even if the greater public doesn’t view the university within which it is located as either prestigious or highly selective. For example, Syracuse’s BArch program is prestigious and highly selective but the university overall, which is a very fine university, is not highly selective. But those in the architecture field will think very well of the program. That is just one example. You may need to share with your parents a list of highly regarded BArch programs to educate them if they simply have “Ivy” on the brain, so to speak. Most Ivies don’t even have a BArch!</p>
<p>Um… isn’t Syracuse also a private school with a costly tuition rate (like 40k)? Besides, if I get into Syracuse I’ll most likely be accepted into Cornell too, considering their B.Arch is pretty equal, and I’d much rather go to Cornell.</p>
<p>You’ve received some good advice. Just to sum up:</p>
<p>First, I would agree that prestige is regional. If you intend to live and work on the eastcoast then a degree from Cornell might be significant; if you intend to stay in Texas or live in the midwest it’s less so.</p>
<p>Second, there are so many ways to approach architecture. You really won’t know the financial implications until you apply, get accepted and compare your financial packages. Tuition is just one element. Need based aid, merit aid, grants, work programs, and the choice of B.Arch vs M.Arch are all considerations.</p>
<p>Third, prestige in architecture isn’t the same as prestige across the board. My son is at Cornell (M.Arch program) and I think it’s a wonderful school, but I believe that there are plenty of others that are well respected by hiring architects. Listen to the architects not the college ranking systems.</p>
<p>And lastly, consider programs that have aggressive work-study programs like Northeastern or Cinncinnati.</p>
<p>The first thing to you might want to get straight is that Syracuse is much easier to get into than Cornell. Alongside Cooper Union, Cornell’s architecture program has a terribly low acceptance rate.</p>
<p>That being said, Cornell’s architecture program is best ranked every year for reasons, although ranking isn’t everything, especially for undergraduate. But Cornell is a richer school, an Ivy League, and will provide better reputation/connections so it’s not right to say that ‘it doesn’t matter where you go.’ I personally think that kind of mindset may develop from people somewhat envious that they aren’t in Cornell… but Cornell is prestigious.</p>
<p>And as for money, I think if you want to become an architect your desire/passion to do so should annul your fear of financial status. Just saying 
It’ll be hard no matter who you are or where you go to. Not impossible though, to be very financially stable.</p>
<p>Cornell’s reputation was forged in the 70’s and early 80’s when Colin Rowe was in his prime. Some of the finest practicioners and teachers of the next 20 years emerged from those classes, and I studied with and under a few of them. During that time there was no better school, and getting into debt to attend might have been worth it. That period is over and though it is still a fine program, there are other comparable programs out there, including some at state schools. A Cornell BArch does carry prestige on the east coast, but not nearly as much as a MArch from Harvard, Columbia, Yale, or Princeton.</p>
<p>I think you have received good advice, analyze the packages you are offered and decide which is the best value. Perhaps this will help your parents adjust their prestige expectations. </p>
<p>Rick</p>
<p>Rick, I have a quick question!</p>
<p>Usually, M.Arch is followed by a 4 year undergraduate program.
But don’t B.Arch students also have the option to study more in graduate schools? So somebody from Cornell B.Arch could also carry on the prestige of a Harvard M.Arch? I am not sure about why/how people do so, but it’s what I read somewhere.</p>