This isn’t a close comparison at all. Canada Goose Expedition is far superior by any objective measure. Signaling can be important. If employers and grad schools believe Duke is superior, then it’s besides the point whether those differences are real.
Not a thing wrong with it – all of our kids are going to affordable schools and they tend to be the top students in those schools and all are doing well and on paths to great careers. And we may actually retire one day and they will have debt that is reasonable to pay.
@3kids3dogs, how old is your daughter? Has she thought about what she likes in a school? Big vs. small? LAC vs. university? Approachability of profs/advisors? Greek life or no? Sports-heavy campus? She should be looking at a wide variety of schools to identify what’s important to her to have that positive college experience. She should also be aware of the schools that award merit and evaluate where she might be competitive for one of those grants. Finally, you two parents should consider what you can and will spend and share this with her ** before she begins any applications. **
I’m not gonna lie. There are differences between schools. We all want to believe it’s all the same. Of course it’s entirely possible to have a wonderful experience at any school! I’m simply observing that there are differences and it’s best to go in with eyes open.
The elite school brings together a higher density of talented kids. For some kids that makes a difference, for those who are more secure as the big fish, it’s a negative. You’re not always going to be the smartest kid in the room. For kids who want to learn and who don’t want to be the smartest kid in the room, it’s a positive. There’s a myth that it’s all competitive-and maybe it is at some schools and in some majors-but I have watched the opposite unfold. These kids seem to support each other to help each other rise.
The teaching level is at a higher level. It just is. If you have a highly accomplished cohort of kids, it stands to reason that they take the class to a higher level. It’s inspiring and daunting and from what I’ve seen (from the outside) it brings people together as they work hard to learn together.
The elite school also affords extraordinary opportunities and while it is of course dependent on the person to find those opportunities, from what I see, it’s easier at the elite school. There’s enough to go around for anyone who is interested.
The name recognition of the elite school brings opportunities outside the school. You get your foot in the door for competitive jobs and outside scholarships.
Let me leave with this: I graduated from a state school with a 4.0 and Phi Beta Kappa and had a not so great experience. A close friend graduated from a state school in the same system and had a fabulous experience. She was lucky that an advisor happened to focus on an area of interest and counseled her to pursue a small, rigorous major. Another close friend’s daughter competed for a highly selective scholarship and honors program and the girl soared at that school. Others have posted that they know of kids attending elite schools who have not taken advantage of the opportunities offered at those schools. So there’s lots of variability. It goes back to where I started. Figure out the fit and need, the student goals and family goals, figure out the budget, and go from there. There’s no one right answer.
Agreed! For some kids, the fact that almost everyone at some of these schools is more or less on par is something they cherish. Even then… some will be at the top of the pack so one shouldn’t necessarily think it won’t be them.
For other kids leading (or close to it) is quite the thrill and they are perfectly ok with others not necessarily joining them. They are rarely on their own as they aren’t the only top stat students choosing this path, some out of pure choice - preferring that environment and some due to finances or legacy or whatever put them in “that” school. There are peers academically.
Put a kid into a top school who doesn’t fit in there by their own choice (not parental guidance/direction/insistence) and you’ll induce stress. That stress can have horrid consequences. Don’t do it. I don’t care if the student was 6.0 with 1700/37 in stats (yes, hyperbole).
Put a student who would thrive there into any other school and they will still do well. It’s their nature. They just could have done or enjoyed it more if they’d had the opportunity. Put them into a school well beneath their capability (1000/22) and they will wonder what could have been always wishing they’d had the chance to do more (even as they do well where they are).
Is it affordable and/or do the parents want to pay for it if it costs more? That’s an individual decision. It’s not worth super high debt.
I’ll admit I’m really surprised to see Tulane as the elite school… It is Top 50, so perhaps that is just my perception with it not being a typical school we have students wanting to attend. I certainly wouldn’t consider it on Duke’s level as a peer. I would consider UNC higher to be frank, but again, there’s the potential of regional bias on my part.
shrug I don’t know what to tell you. In the early 90’s it was one of the few schools with a Political Economy Degree, modeled after one found at the London School of Economics. I chose it specifically for the major. I now see Georgetown has a political economy degree, but I don’t recall it being available at the time - because I also applied there and was going to major in political science. The Murphy Institute was (is?) a pretty big deal in terms of professors/resources in that area.
Yes and no. In the vast majority of jobs, the big difference is whether an applicant has a degree or not.
That being said, there are fields in which “prestige” is extremely important, like law and business. That is because, in these fields, the quality of the education is a lot less important than the connections that a school can provide, through invited lecturers and internships.
For the majority of fields, though, it doesn’t help much, and there is enough reverse snobbery that it can hurt. Often locally well regarded schools have a lot more cachet than Big name East Coast colleges. TAMU opens more doors in Texas than Yale, and across the Midwest, Michigan, UIUC, OSU, and Wisconsin have more weight than the Ivies.
So, while prestige has its benefits, they are not as widespread as one may think, and, for most majors they do not provide enough benefits to justify the very large amount of money prestige costs. A salary with an extra $10,000 a year doesn’t justify an extra $150,000-$200,000, especially if a large chunk of that is in student loans. Even with having to spend three or four months more looking for a job it doesn’t even it out for most majors.
There are examples of the analogous college choice (or perception of such; i.e. college seen as poor quality versus unaffordable colleges perceived as good quality) on these forums:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/2148249-which-should-i-transfer-to-swarthmore-or-umichigan.html
@3kids2dogs It’s ok. I never knew Eckerd existed, much less was Top 5 (often Top 1 - first suggestion they made) among employers we asked when inquiring about schools to go to for Marine Science when my youngest was interested in that field.
At least I knew Tulane existed… though that could be because they have higher level sports than Eckerd. The colleges one tends to know about are often quite regional or interest specific (or national sports team recognition). On this forum if one is talking “elite” it’s usually code word for HYPSM or similar, so that’s what I assumed with this thread. I can check the box on my “learn something new every day” list now! 
@ucbalumnus I was specifically referring to this thread - not general threads on cc.
What schools does the OP have in mind? Duke versus merit aid at SUNY Buffalo honors, U of Delaware honors, etc? Or …Duke versus the honors program at the U of Maryland ( they give a small amount of merit), Pitt, Stamps Scholar at Miami, or Robertson at UNC?
Those are things that need to be considered. We looked at the honors program at the U of Delaware for our daughter…as a safety school. It’s a wonderful school (I loved it) but my daughter was head and shoulders above the rest even within the honors program, and I knew it would not be a good place for her. Put her in Pitt…and she would have been right smack in her element. Those kids turned down Ivy League schools to attend Pitt for (almost) free…and there were plenty of them involved in all sorts of things. That was not the case at Delaware.
You will get higher concentrations of high stats kids at Vanderbilt and Duke etc…that can be a pro or a con depending on the student’s personality. I also think that if your kid is chasing merit and has the stats for those schools, one needs to do some research as to where they may fit in. Again…all of our kids are different.
@3kids2dogs let’s talk medical school or the possibility of medical school…excluding finances for now.
If your daughter thinks she may want to be a doctor then she needs to attend a school where she will get a gpa that is medical school worthy. Can she do this at Duke? Would she be better off attending a school where she is near the top so that getting a high gpa is “easier”? That is something else to think about…we don’t know your daughter.
@twogirls That concept is definitely in the forefront of my and her mind. She’s done the research and talked to friends’ parents who are doctors and knows that getting the absolute best GPA she can is crucial.
Could she get those grades at Duke - probably, she’s known nothing but academic success so far, but on the other hand, I don’t think she needs the name on her diploma to get into med school.
We’re in the midwest and she wants to go south. We toured (and she loved) University of South Carolina Columbia earlier in June. Their honors college is very competitive to get into, but she’s well in line with the stats. I would say that’s tops of her list right now.
I probably should say - she’s not asking to tour Duke, longing to go to Duke or anything like that. We’re not having door slamming fights over public vs private school. I just feel some guilt for not encouraging her to apply to these high cache schools when she is such a great student and it seems like that’s where great students should apply.
There seems to be a common perception on this forum that grade distribution is similar at all colleges, making it more difficult to get a high grade, the more stellar your classmates are. The relationship is not that simple. Classes that have a large portion of students doing A quality work tend to give a lot of A grades. The most common grade at “elite” private colleges is usually an A.
For example, you mentioned Duke. The average GPA at Duke is in the A- range. Most students get A’s, and C’s are usually rare. The average GPA at less selective colleges is usually far lower than at Duke. At some not especially selective publics colleges (as a general rule, privates tend to have greater degree of grade inflation than comparably selective publics, although there are many exceptions), the average GPA is in the C range, with only a small portion of students getting A’s. Furthermore the honors cutoffs for Duke suggest the early intro classes tend have a similar if not greater portion of students getting A’s than later courses, which is unusual and may suggest generous grading in intro pre-med type classes. For example, top 25% cutoff at Trinity was 3.9 for freshman, but 3.8 for juniors and seniors. Pratt was only slightly lower. I don’t know the grade distribution for specific pre-med courses, but it’s my understanding that Duke does not have a reputation for harsh pre-med grading or “weeding,” compared to typical comparably selective colleges.
@3kids2dogs I have a dd who is a Top Scholar at USC. She absolutely loves the school. 2 of her friends are pre-med there, one BARSC (3 yrs for UG and guaranteed admission to their med school). Their HC is ranked much higher than Bama’s, but ds was in their RRS (then CBH) program, and I would say that what opportunities he directly received from RRS were better than what dd gets from TS.
But both are great options. Different, but both are solid. No regrets for accepting either one over higher ranked programs.
I was using Duke more as an example. I don’t know what the grade distribution is like. It may be worth investigating this at various schools.
The only experience I have IRL with a student at this USC was very positive - med school and PhD in his case. He loved the school too last I talked with him. There’s no reason at all they shouldn’t be kept as a contender on her list.
Absolutely no one needs to aim Top 20 just because they could be competitive for admissions. My lad opted out of that race and he is extremely academic naturally. No regrets there either. We let our guys choose where they wanted to apply and go (within financial constraints).
I would be hard pressed to pay for an Uber when public transportation is available, but I would pay up to stay at. 5 star hotel. We all have our own barometer as to what we would pay up, unless money is no object. For me, when it comes to education I would always pay for the best I could afford.
And, OP, in many, many respects, the college landscape has changed since we parents attended. You already knowit isn’t feast or famine and that your husband’s degree brought him to the same point you arrived at.
If this is about med school, the main need is to do well, not be weeded out, get the right college ECs, and gain the support of the college’s med school committee(s.) Not the shiny name on the diploma. In many ways, some tippy tops are riskier, based on their competition. This isn’t like in our day, when so many bright kids had so many opportunities for professional degrees.
I’d say this is no longer about cost concerns. Nor prestige. It’s about the right college where she can build for her future goals and be successful.
https://www.sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2018/12/fast_track_to_success.php#.XRNO_9EpChA (BARSC-MD program through the HC at USC)
However, that does not mean that the “best” = “the most expensive”. Moreover, I will repeat - there is no such thing as an objectively “best” college, despite what people may believe because they think that USANews, or Times, or any other ranking, are objective global measures of absolute quality.
Well… The “best” school is the one you can succeed in, is affordable and has a good “fit and feel” makes you happy.