<p>I agree that if a kid can read early, it’s not a one-time task completed. Each child has different interests and potentials from an early age. As parents we provide opportunities for them to explore and develop their interests and talents. For my son, his very early reading sometimes led to bizarre situations, such as one where we were looking to go to a drive-in movie when he was about three but turned away when we saw the marquee listing: “Puss 'n Boots.” We said to him there were no movies there for children. He immediately cried out, “But that’s a kids’ movie!”</p>
<p>But by an large, in addition to the very large trove of children’s books, when he discovered an interest in sports at about age 6, he began to read sports magazines, he read everything about sports, and then took an interest in sports statistics, and so every year we gave him sports almanacs. And a few years later he was doing fantasy sports statistics, taught himself to use spreadsheets so that he could manage his teams. We did not buy him computer games, but since he had access to a computer he taught himself BASIC (at first by copying and then expanding short routines published in “3-2-1 Contact”) and made a couple of crude games by himself.</p>
<p>Our daughter was also an early and avid reader and had access to all of the books that our son had, but she spent a lot of her time drawing. She could draw what she saw. But often she would just take colored pencils or markers and make designs, alternate colors in zigs and zags, not representational stuff. She saw things that we did not. Many years later, she chose to attend art school. And today her career is focused on product design and development.</p>
<p>In both cases, it wasn’t we as parents imposing our interests on them. We viewed our role as exposing them to opportunities to learn and to discover their own interests, and the two thus went in different directions, One followed a career that started with his math and sports interests but grew into a broader range of topics; the other followed a career in design. You couldn’t exactly predict this when they were age 3 or 4, but their careers are a perfectly logical extension of what they were interested in even then.</p>
<p>@ wis75, “The concept of identifying giftedness only after those statewide class tests has meant too many GT kids bored in school at an age they lack as many good coping mechanisms. I learned that Oregon strictly regulated GT resources to students in the top 3% by tests instead of looking at the child individually”. </p>
<p>We have a process that allows for all kinds of substitutes for test scores, and those only have to be top 5%. But evaluating portfolios, letters, etc, does take time, and I suspect that more resources are being spent on “identification” than on actual services. And they don’t even test the kids until 2nd grade, then it takes a long time to go through the identification process. Middle of second grade is the earliest the school would consider a kid could be gifted. What does that label get them? They’d be included in a few hours per week of “push in” group work where the gifted teacher would come into the classroom and do a little extra work with the kids who were identified gifted. And I believe that these groups are not actually limited to the identified kids, that’s the reason for changing from the pullout model, which excluded the other kids to doing them in the classroom. In their 13 years of schooling, that 2.5 years of a few hours per week is the assistance they get–assuming they make it through the hours of testing, the 10-15 pages of documentation and recommendations, and the committee meetings, or just end up in that group anyhow.</p>
<p>'But- so much depends on the parents and their willingness to get what their child needs to best thrive. I knew too many parents who let the schools do it all- they never went beyond that and were content with whatever was offered the average student." Some kids will be desperately unhappy in a boring class. Others don’t seem to mind, or just accept what the school does without thinking about how well it’s meeting their needs. If the kid seems happy and is doing well in school, some parents may not be questioning whether they could be doing so much more. Or maybe they think the hours they spend in school are enough hours and don’t want to be pushing them academically after hours. And perhaps they aren’t happy with what is happening, but there aren’t going to be very many parents in this group and they usually get an extremely hostile reception from other parents if they suggest that the school is not challenging enough. So maybe they aren’t as happy as you think they are but have kept their concerns to themselves. Or shared it with the school and been ignored.</p>
<p>Loved mackinaw’s story about the early reader. We let our kindergartener read the newspaper. We encouraged him to ask about things in the headlines which he didn’t understand and then we explained them to him. He asked his kindergarten teacher to explain a headline which said, 'Texas Repeals Sodomy Law." I’m sure that after that, I ended up on a very special list of “parents we don’t want to deal with.” </p>
<p>My youngest is a third-grader. Kindergarten teachers have to deal with a wide range of preparation among students in their classes. Some kids have been in all-day “academic” pre-schools for 2 years. Some have had no school or day care experience at all. Some are reading. Some don’t know the alphabet. Some are still having potty accidents/tantrums. I think it is fine for kindergarten (which is half-day many places) to just cover the basics of good manners, how to behave in a classroom, take turns/cooperate/get along with others, follow instructions, take responsibility for your own stuff, how to use things like glue, paint, scissors, singing songs, playing games and having a positive school experience. Basic reading and math, are enough on top of all that. I know some people who have chosen to homeschool for kindergarten because their kids needed more at that age. There is such a mix of experience and maturity that it is hard for one teacher to cover every need.</p>
<p>Mathyone, if a kid reads naturally at age 5, that’s fine, but it really won’t affect where the same child is at in third grade. I think your daughter would be doing the same things right now regardless of whether academics were offered in kindergarten or whether kindergarten was challenging enough.</p>
<p>And if academics are viewed as the only way to avoid boredom, for a 5 year-old, that is exactly the problem. My son’s giftedness was apparent while he played trash truck, while the others in his “gifted” preschool played chess and learned French. I wanted to pull him out but he was happy as could be.</p>
<p>There is always something to be learned no matter what is going on, and if extras are needed, such as a chapter book or two, that is easy enough to provide.</p>
<p>Finally, you raise an important point. You mention “all day.” I do not think children this age should be in school all day, at all: I believe all day kindergarten was a response to the needs of working parents, not the developmental needs of young children.</p>
<p>Two of my kids are considered gifted for what it’s worth, and I think they needed playtime more than ever for that reason.</p>
<p>" if a kid reads naturally at age 5, that’s fine, but it really won’t affect where the same child is at in third grade." I’m not convinced of this. It does take time even for a bright and avid reader to develop skills. By the time my kids were in 3rd grade, they had already read most of the Harry Potter books. They were reading books like Eragon in 3rd grade. Reading affected their interests, what they talked about, how they played. And so it also affected their friendships because they were most interested in other kids who liked to read and talk about the same books they loved. Just like the sports buff might find their best friends among kids who like to play or talk certain sports.</p>
<p>I agree kids need playtime which is why I take issue with the suggestion that is always made that if kids aren’t learning anything in school, it’s ok because they can learn on their own time. No, it’s not ok to take away their playtime.</p>
<p>Academics are not the only way to avoid boredom. But a kid who can already read chapter books should not be subjected to hours and hours of reciting the alphabet or sounding out C-A-T. And a kid who can already add fractions in their head should not have to count to 10 endlessly or be taught that 2 is more than 1. That is boredom. </p>
<p>“if extras are needed, such as a chapter book or two, that is easy enough to provide.” Except that many teachers don’t or won’t.</p>
<p>We have all day kindergarten in our area. I haven’t heard too many complaints about it. It wouldn’t be practical to run the buses twice, and they’d be half-empty because so many kids are not just in all day kindergarten but in after-care as well.</p>
<p>There is always something to be learned no matter what is going on, and if extras are needed, such as a chapter book or two, that is easy enough to provide.</p>
<p>Finally, you raise an important point. You mention “all day.” I do not think children this age should be in school all day, at all: I believe all day kindergarten was a response to the needs of working parents, not the developmental needs of young children.</p>
<p>Two of my kids are considered gifted for what it’s worth, and I think they needed playtime more than ever for that reason.*</p>
<p>I agree.
My kid was tested into the .03%,( it was part of a special study, otherwise I doubt if she would have been tested) she taught herself to read @ three, but she didn’t need to go to school to read books.
We had all kinds of books at home, I wanted her to do other stuff at school. Playing games, cooking in a group, telling stories… I didn’t need school to play to her strengths, she did that fine on her own, she read walking down the aisle at the grocery store for pete sake, I wanted her to be multifaceted.</p>
<p>Mathyone…I agree with much of what you say, but a child in Kdg who is able to read (not just decode) and add fractions in their head, is truly ahead of the vast majority of children of the same age. I would, if this was my child, likely look for a private school setting, or homeschool, if I felt that the typical K classroom was not serving my child’s needs. There are just too many state mandated skills that a teacher must teach these days so the counting to 10 and 1+1=2 will be taught and given due priority. It’s crazy, but every year, it seems, the content areas seem to expand, with class sizes remaining quite large. Do more, keep more records, teach to the test, and please make sure the kids are learning how to play nicely, stand in line, sit still and write legibly. And in my district, do this with a population that is just well off enough to not qualify for free preschool, but for many they are not well enough off to afford fee-based preschool. Some of my kids had never been outside of our little community, been to a library or knew that washing ones hands after using the restroom was a good thing. Arghhh! So, for those blessed with kids who are SO far above the norm, I believe the parents need to take charge of the acceleration of instruction. As a teacher I had two of my own kids to extend at home, and one to remediate. Very time consuming, but I knew it was up to me to do so. </p>
<p>I would say kindergarten is too boring not too easy for the most part. My younger son’s kindergarten had a wonderful blocks, but they hardly ever got to play with him. A far cry from the teacher of another class (in another school that I disliked for other reasons) who had a good quarter of her classroom taken over by a block city her kids had put together. I still think it’s amusing that my older and very precocious son’s happiest year in elementary school was kindergarten, because it wasn’t stuffed with boring work sheets.</p>
<p>Aren’t Kindergarten teachers certified to teach K-8? Why would it be so hard for a kindergarten teacher to teach 1st or 2nd grade reading or math to the kids who are ready for that? I’m not expecting a calculus class from a kindergarten teacher, but if a kindergartner understands the lesson, give them a more advanced lesson and give them some practice to do rather than making them march in step with everyone else. This is not happening in many schools, even in schools which do not have many disadvantaged students.</p>
<p>As far as boring worksheets go, I still remember how we were trying to show a Disney movie to my older one, but she found it boring. She stopped watching and started doing worksheets. The younger one found the worksheets boring, and I kept telling her that math would be more interesting once she got through all the basic arithmetic she had to learn. And it was. And it was a very good thing that she was able to complete that work more quickly and not prolong that agony for another 2 years.</p>
<p>K teachers can usually teach other grades (generally in K-2 range), but you have to consider class size as a factor that makes it difficult for a teacher to have multiple subgroups in a K class. This is especially true if the class has a few students who require extraordinary attention of one kind or another. My son’s best setup in early grades was when although he was in second grade the class was a 2-3 split, and thus he could be given work for the “high” third graders. The craziest thing, however, happened later on when they found a second textbook for him to use – I think it was 4th grade – but the effect was that he was still working at the same level but had twice the exercises to do to keep him busy! Finally, in 5th grade they allowed him to walk across the street (actually a busy boulevard, so they escorted him) to the middle school so that he could take 6th grade math.</p>
<p>“you have to consider class size as a factor that makes it difficult for a teacher to have multiple subgroups in a K class. This is especially true if the class has a few students who require extraordinary attention of one kind or another.” Which is why it makes so much sense to put the entire grade in groups for math and reading so that when teaching academics, the teachers don’t have to contend with such a broad range in the classroom. Also, there are many teacher’s aides and volunteers in our Kindergarten classrooms and those could be assigned to assist the groups with especially needy kids.</p>
<p>My 8th grader volunteers as a kindergarten aide 1-2 hours/week. There is also an adult aide in the classroom at least half time, maybe full time. Class sizes used to be about 18, may have crept up to 20 or so with budget cuts. </p>
<p>Urban areas often have much larger classrooms.
We have much overcrowding.
Class sizes here are 26-28 for early elementary, sometimes larger, ( high school classes may have 32-34) no aide although some schools may use parent or community volunteers.</p>
<p>it wasn’t too easy for me. when i was tested on the alphabet i got tripped up on the small q. i didn’t know what that thing was. it was kind of embarrassing too because this was an oral test. they had you go, one by one, out to the hall where the learning specialist teacher tested you on the alphabet. she showed you the letters and you were supposed to say what they were. i couldn’t conjure anything for the “q”. i thought myself a failure for that. obviously still haven’t lived it down to this day. so as long as kids are still getting tested on their fluency with the alphabet i think it’s plenty hard, i still didn’t have all the letters down by the time the end of kindergarten neared.</p>
<p>I taught in a school much like EK describes. We had parent helpers for center time each day, but many could not be counted on to show up reliably, or manage a group well enough that I could work with one or two kids by themselves. Usually I had maybe 1 exceptional student each year, and thankfully their parents saw the benefit in what their children were learning outside of the three R’s. I was always able to differentiate instruction within the group setting, posing extended questions and problems to those who finished early. A completely separate lesson? Not usually. When I think about exceptional students, one in particular comes to mind…he was off the charts in every way except his motor skills ( gross and fine) were quite below average. At the beginning of the year he couldn’t button his pants, or manage to put his papers in his backpack. He had a hard time tracing the letters in his name, even with the big fat chunky crayons. He often misjudged how close to stand near the person in front of him in line, and often bumped into them. But boy could he read! He ended up spending much free time (after the "easy class work) stringing beads (in complex patterns of course), working on his pencil grip/use of scissors, practicing skipping at recess, and other such developmental activities. When I left that school, he was a perfectly happy, and very advanced 5th grader who loved school and learning. I think a lot had to do with a firm commitment his parents made to support the teachers efforts and to supplement at home as needed. Of course I should mention that once kids got to about 2nd grade, they were “leveled” for math and reading. Most stayed at the appropriate grade level, but a few went up a grade. It takes a good group of teachers working together to make collaboration work, but at the K level I think pulling a kid (or 2 or 3) out to another classroom or grade level is just not really necessary or age appropriate. Kids of that age bond very tightly with their teachers and peers, and splitting them up might end up creating a social divide just to push them ahead academically. Just my .02</p>
<p>Shellz, your story about the bright boy who was behind in other areas resonated with me. I remember being like that, finding the academic work (such as it was way back then) to be really easy, but some of the other social and motor skill stuff to be a challenge. My very bright son was in a similar situation. He burst into reading, but was figuring out how to make friends and how to cut with scissors. </p>
<p>The kids are so young and are learning so much in so many different areas in kindergarten. It isn’t fair to focus just on academics.</p>
<p>I have a few memorable students, and this little guy was one of them. The day he lined up after recess without causing a domino effect of falling 5 year olds was truly a milestone. The entire class went out of their way to give him props! It was heartwarming :-)</p>
<p>the only acceleration i ever received was the math workbook for third graders my first grade teacher gave me. i remember the book really well. it had the big three on it for third graders and it was printed in bright purples and blues and maybe pinks. it really popped out at you, like whoa, what a colorful book. i think everyone was skeptical this was the way to accelerate a child though. just give him a book and see what he does with it. i flipped through it, the cover did do its job of enticing me. but it was boring. and too easy. i worked in it for awhile but soon gave it up. </p>
<p>i liked your story about that kid you taught. the smartest kid in my grade in high school had those motor skill issues. his handwriting was sooo pathetic. mine was too, but it was messy like a doctor’s is, because i lacked the patience to write legibly. but him, he just couldn’t write legibly if he tried. the lines were so thin, and feeble. the curves weren’t smooth but jagged. his hand quavered. i watched him many times in the math club attempt to write on the board for us slower kids how the problem was solved. he was not only an advanced reader but a talented problem solver.</p>