Is Lacrosse one of College's major sports?

[ggoos4me]

<p>

@hawkette

However, if you do a little digging, you actually find that ND and Duke don’t compare that badly and goodness knows that the quality of teams that they are competing against are a far cry above the Browns and Dartmouths and Princetons of the world.

</p>

<p>I thought we were talking about academic and admissions standards, not quality of athletic competition.</p>

[tb0mb93]

<p>I wish lacrosse was as huge as football or basketball. Living ON long island, but not out in long island, I have seen some of the best high school lacrosse teams play</p>

[ggoos4me]

<p>

@hawkette

Despite your hopeful, but feeble, attempts to undermine, the NCAA graduation data is relevant and reflects a college’s commitment to admitting quality students and helping keep them on the path to graduation.

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<p>The fact that ND football players with sub-900 SATs can graduate suggests that the APR is not relevant and does not reflect ND’s “commitment to admitting quality students.” Don’t you understand that admissions standards are not equivalent to graduation rates?</p>

<p>

@hawkette

Quote:
ND and Duke lacrosse players (and other athletes) do not even have to submit an application like other students, for crying out loud. </p>

<p>I don’t know about the application thing

</p>

<p>Then how can you honestly say that ND/Duke have the SAME athletic admissions standards as the Ivies when you don’t even know this simple fact? (This is common knowledge in the athletic recruiting world.) What else don’t you know???</p>

[snackpack]

<p>There are three tiers to college sports. The first tier are the major national sports-football and basketball. The second tier are regional sports big in certain areas, and get decent (not good/great) TV coverage, but aren’t big on a whole nationally. This includes baseball, lacrosse, hockey… maybe a few more. Then there’s the 3rd tier which nobody besides the athletes and their parents care about (most college sports).</p>

[snackpack]

<p>2006-07 NCAA DIVISION I CHAMPIONSHIPS
Top 10 Total Paid Attendance</p>

<ol>
<li>Baseball 682,880 </li>
<li>Men’s Basketball 589,402</li>
<li>Football (FCS) 179,551</li>
<li>Women’s Basketball 148,775</li>
<li>Women’s Volleyball 126,369</li>
<li>Men’s Lacrosse 120,975</li>
<li>Men’s Ice Hockey 116,147</li>
<li>Wrestling 88,761</li>
<li>Men’s Soccer 77,973</li>
<li>Softball 74,517"</li>
</ol>

<p>Also, this shows nothing. First, the lacrosse tournament only has 16 teams. Meanwhile, baseball has 64. Second, baseball is double elimination, lacrosse is not. Of course, baseball’s tournament’s gonna have higher attendance. The lacrosse champion only plays 4 tournament games. The baseball champion has to play at least 10, and can theoretically play 16 games.</p>

[JohnAdams12]

<p>Hawkette, so Univ. of Colorado and others listed here for lacrosse aren’t west of South Bend or in major conferences like the Big 12 or Pac 10?</p>

<p>[url=<a href=“http://culax.org/schedule.aspx]Schedule[/url”>http://culax.org/schedule.aspx]Schedule[/url</a>]</p>

<p>Univ. of Colorado
Michigan
Michigan State
Utah
Loyola Marymount
Chapman
Colorado School of Mines
Miami
Colorado State
Minnesota Duluth
Wyoming
Utah State
Arizona State
Oregon
Nothern Colorado
Colorado College</p>

<p>Or could it be that your comment is a couple of years old and the above underscores the incredible growth of Lacrosse in college?</p>

<p>

With specific regard to lacrosse, claims that it is anything but a regional sport are off. No school in major conferences like the Big 12, SEC, and the Pac 10 even field a men’s team. I don’t think any schools south of Durham, NC nor west of South Bend, IN compete in the men’s game and the women only have spotty representation.

</p>

[JohnAdams12]

<p>hawkette, you are again underscoring the advantage that ND and Duke have in giving out Lacrosse scholarships to the best lacrosse players over Ivy league schools that don’t give athletic scholarships. These type of players would not even get need based scholarships at Ivy league schools, thereby giving further advantate to ND and Duke.</p>

<p>

But lacrosse is not the same thing as all of these colleges are recruiting the same players, the large majority of which are coming from private or highly affluent public high schools in the NE.

</p>

[JohnAdams12]

<p>but hawkette, it is YOU that has insisted that the lacrosse players come from the wealthy families, therefore they would not be able to get need based financial aid from the Ivies…</p>

<p>there goes another argument of yours</p>

<p>

Also, have you factored in the wealth of these schools? College A (Ivy college) has a large endowment and can afford to give financial aid to a family that has $150,000 in annual income. College B (non-Ivy college) has fewer resources or chooses to spend in a different way and cannot offer financial aid to the same family. The student chooses College A. Would you consider this as “paying” the student to attend College A (Ivy college)?

</p>

[JohnAdams12]

<p>hawkette, are you saying here that Duke’s football teams are a “far cry” better than the Ivy League football teams?</p>

<p>do you really want to say that here?</p>

<p>

As noted earlier, I’m posting re lacrosse and the standards. I concur that admissions standards are different for many colleges in their recruitment for football and basketball (heavily influenced by the large number of minorities that fall into this category). However, if you do a little digging, you actually find that ND and Duke don’t compare that badly and goodness knows that the quality of teams that they are competing against are a far cry above the Browns and Dartmouths and Princetons of the world.

</p>

[JohnAdams12]

<p>hawkette, well, of course Duke is going to have high graduation rates, that is what happens when the school gives these athletic scholarship students “special” classes that make it easier for them to graduate - something that you don’t find at the Ivies.</p>

<p>

Gg,
I can’t speak to the racial hue of Duke’s men’s basketball team, but according to the NCAA, their record for graduating their players is every bit as good or better than many Ivy colleges.</p>

<p>Men’s Basketball APR , College</p>

<p>1000 , Columbia
996 , Princeton
996 , Yale
995 , Harvard
989 , DUKE
984 , U Penn
982 , NOTRE DAME
982 , Brown
977 , Cornell
976 , Dartmouth</p>

<p>933 , Nat’l Avg for Division I</p>

<p>Congratulations. Yet another example of Ivy arrogance/declaration of superiority that is not borne out by the facts. What’s with you guys??? Stop disparaging other schools unless you have the data to support it.

</p>

[JohnAdams12]

<p>Mr. Fantastic, huh?</p>

<p>The only time the Notre Dame name is heard in the homes of Princeton alumni is when ND plays Michigan, Ohio State or USC on national TV in football.</p>

<p>Academically ND is never considered a peer to the Ivies. NEVER.</p>

<p>But tell us, now that we are on the subject of ND - how is it that not ONE of its incoming freshmen ever submitted both the SAT and ACT scores - NOT ONE? This according to Notre Dame admissions office - even though ND recommends that prospective students submit both scores.</p>

<p>Percent of Notre Dame students who submitted SAT’s and ACT’s:
SAT’s - 48%
ACT’s - 52%</p>

<p>[College</a> Search - University of Notre Dame - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>

<p>

it has to be a bitter pill for Princeton grads to swallow that they are now inferior in the one sport which they (the Ivy leaguers) see themselves as dominating and used to have an exclusive hold over for the most part, to a bunch of Catholic kids at a school where Lacrosse is the 5th or 6th most popular sport, lol. Symbolic of the loss of Ivy League prestige overall maybe…?

</p>

[ThisCouldBeHeavn]

<p>

1. Syracuse 5,832
2. Ohio State 5,762
3. Navy 5,263
4. Johns Hopkins 3,036
5. Massachusetts 2,930
6. Virginia 2,712
7. Hofstra 2,455
8. Cornell 2,317
9. Towson 2,187
10. Loyola 2,084
11. North Carolina 1,769
12. Maryland 1,653
13. Princeton 1,599
14. Stony Brook 1,554
15. Duke 1,527
16. Georgetown 1,517
17. UMBC 1,333
18. Harvard 1,271
19. Brown 1,038
20. Rutgers 1,034

</p>

<p>Here’s Women’s Gymnastics, for comparison</p>

<p>1 Utah, U. of 14212.50
2 Alabama, U. of 13786.00
3 Georgia, U. of 9818.50
4 Florida, U. of 5818.00
5 Auburn Univ. 5567.20
6 Oregon State 4170.60
7 UCLA 3808.50
8 Michigan, U. of 3011.00
9 L.S.U. 2787.00
10 North Carolina State 2570.80
11 Arkansas, U. of 2505.17
12 Southern Utah Univ. 2371.60
13 Kentucky, U. of 2275.00
14 Brigham Young Univ. 1894.75
15 Missouri, U. of 1873.29
16 Boise State Univ. 1868.33
17 Iowa State 1850.25
18 Minnesota, U. of 1744.83
19 Penn State 1682.33
20 Oklahoma, U. of 1631.80</p>

[hawkette]

<p>JA,
Re your comment,</p>

<p>

are you saying here that Duke’s football teams are a “far cry” better than the Ivy League football teams?</p>

<p>do you really want to say that here?

</p>

<p>Yes, I do. Here are the final 2009 Football Rankings by Sagarin/USA Today</p>

<p>48 Notre Dame
78 Duke</p>

<p>116 U Penn
147 Harvard
166 Brown
180 Columbia
190 Yale
213 Princeton
214 Dartmouth
222 Cornell</p>

<p>Re your list of schools supposedly playing men’s Division I lacrosse, </p>

<p>

Univ. of Colorado
Michigan
Michigan State
Utah
Loyola Marymount
Chapman
Colorado School of Mines
Miami
Colorado State
Minnesota Duluth
Wyoming
Utah State
Arizona State
Oregon
Nothern Colorado
Colorado College

</p>

<p>Uh, U Colorado and those you list above are playing club lacrosse. Not Division I. </p>

<p>[Collegiate</a> Sport Clubs | Club Sports | Recreation Center | CU-Boulder](<a href=“http://www.colorado.edu/recreation/clubsports/clubs.html]Collegiate”>http://www.colorado.edu/recreation/clubsports/clubs.html)</p>

<p>The schools that play Division I Men’s lacrosse can be found here:</p>

<p>[NCAA</a> Sports Sponsorship](<a href=“http://web1.ncaa.org/onlineDir/exec/sponsorship?sortOrder=0&division=1&sport=MLA]NCAA”>http://web1.ncaa.org/onlineDir/exec/sponsorship?sortOrder=0&division=1&sport=MLA)</p>

<p>Re your really stupid comment about standardized test scores at Notre Dame, </p>

<p>

how is it that not ONE of its incoming freshmen ever submitted both the SAT and ACT scores - NOT ONE?.. Percent of Notre Dame students who submitted SAT’s and ACT’s:
SAT’s - 48%
ACT’s - 52%

</p>

<p>do you realize that many highly ranked schools report the data in this way, including one of the vaunted Ivy colleges—Dartmouth. </p>

<p>I am having an increasingly hard time believing that you went to Princeton. The intellectual quality of your posts strongly suggests that you must’ve gotten an athletic tip….</p>

[JohnAdams12]

<p>hawkette,</p>

<p>tell us again how you continue to insist that Rice is a much better school to attend for undergrad than HYPSM because it has a good baseball team.</p>

<p>we would all like to hear about your logic on this one</p>

[tk21769]

<p>Anyway, the answer to the topic question is a simple, straightforward “no”. Lacrosse does not have a national following. Major league lacrosse is less than 10 years old and has all of 5 US teams. If a college player has no realistic prospect of making a million dollar salary before he’s 30, how can anyone take this game seriously?</p>

<p>Republican Presidents don’t describe their military policies with lacrosse metaphors.
The sport doesn’t even have beer commercials.</p>

[JohnAdams12]

<p>hawkette, please explain to us again how ND fraudulently reported that NONE of its students reported both the SAT and ACT scores even though ND recommends that both scores are to be sent in to the admissions office by prospective students.</p>

<p>nice game eh?</p>

<p>get both the SAT and ACT scores from your applcants but report only the highest SAT scores and for the those with low SAT scores, just report the ACT scores…</p>

<p>nice game</p>

<p>my guess is that ND’s SAT scores should be about 50 points less each on the SAT1 Math and CR</p>

[SOC2015]

<p>Man, the Ivy League arrogance on here is terrible. Why are you snobs bringing up admissions data? Are upset that the Ivy League isn’t the best at the only sport that they care about? You guys are making up ridiculous claims like ND’s players have 900 SAT’s and don’t have to submit apps. This is a bunch of BS. ND is not LSU. ND players aren’t taking ballroom dancing as their only class like Matt Leinart did during his final year at SC. Just look at Brady Quinn, he was a double major (poly sci and something else) in addition to being an All American and Heisman Trophy candidate. The graduation rates and APR show that ND is even with Ivies, but please feel free to continue to embarrass the Ivy League.</p>

[hawkette]

<p>This is the best you got???</p>

<p>

tell us again how you continue to insist that Rice is a much better school to attend for undergrad than HYPSM because it has a good baseball team.

</p>

<p>

…explain to us again how ND fraudulently reported that NONE of its students reported both the SAT and ACT scores even though ND recommends that both scores are to be sent in to the admissions office by prospective students.

</p>

<p>Rice? Method for reporting SAT scores? Really? Is that really the best you got?? Forgetting for the moment that both statements are patently false not to mention that neither has anything to do with this thread, I’m flabbergasted that that’s your best comeback. Major LOL. </p>

<p>My guess is that those claiming that Princeton is overrated are going to start using you as a prop…. :rolleyes: </p>

<p>Tk,
Thanks for providing a little sanity to the discussion.</p>

<p>

the answer to the topic question is a simple, straightforward “no”.

</p>

<p>It’s pretty obvious to most folks.</p>

[JohnAdams12]

<p>SOC2015, so do you have any comments on this post by Mr.Fantastic that came out of the blue to attack Princeton and the Ivy league?</p>

<p>but again, please tell us about how ND fudges their SAT/ACT score reporting in order to achieve SAT scores that are about 100 points higher in total (for CR and Math together) than what should be reported properly (and ethically).</p>

<p>

from Mr.Fantastic</p>

<p>it has to be a bitter pill for Princeton grads to swallow that they are now inferior in the one sport which they (the Ivy leaguers) see themselves as dominating and used to have an exclusive hold over for the most part, to a bunch of Catholic kids at a school where Lacrosse is the 5th or 6th most popular sport, lol. Symbolic of the loss of Ivy League prestige overall maybe…?

</p>

[JohnAdams12]

<p>hawkette, why would you make such blantant false statements as these?</p>

<p>you know better than that!</p>

<p>Are you telling us that you never stated that your main reason for telling people that Rice is better undergrad than HYPSM is because of Rice’s great baseball team?</p>

<p>Are you telling us that NONE of the incoming freshman class to ND reported both the SAT and ACT scores when it was recommended that this be done by the ND admissions office in their own website?</p>

<p>why would you lie?</p>

<p>

Rice? Method for reporting SAT scores? Really? Is that really the best you got?? Forgetting for the moment that both statements are patently false

</p>