<p>*I worked more than 80 hours a week when I was a resident *</p>
<p>I thnk times have changed too much. Obviously, I can’t speak for your situation, but a number of doctors from years ago had a wife who took care of all the “little things” while hubby did his “doctor stuff”. lol </p>
<p>When you’re overworked, you tend to just “crap out” on the couch during your down time and nothing gets done. That may be fine if you have a SO who is “minding the store,” but if it’s just you or your SO is equally busy, then you’ll soon find yourself living in bio-hazard conditions. ;)</p>
<p>Besides, weren’t there lots of stories of doctors resorting to amphetamines to make it thru the day?</p>
<p>Wholeheartedly disagree with everything PsychoDad says; spouse is a physician and child wanted to be one. Gladly encouraged the interest, and happily have sent child to medical school. Psycho’s posts border on farce, although I’ve always enjoyed the “I had it tougher, you’re all worthless and week” school of mentoring.</p>
<p>It’s the hardest mental, physical, and academic challenge by far. A decade of training to be told what your reimbursement will be and 200k debt. Enjoy!</p>
<p>My S is in his first year of a 6 year residency. They get 4 days a month off. Since he started in July he has regularly worked 14-16 days straight of 16-17 hours per day then had a “golden weekend” of two days in a row off. During those 14-16 days “on” he floats to nights for 4-5 days then back to days…when (not if) they work more than 80 hours/ week, the requisite paperwork is so onerous that they all just lie and say they worked 80 hours.</p>
<p>I don’t think I’d call that getting off easy by any stretch of the imagination.</p>
<p>Medical school was great. I loved it. Best time of my life! Why?</p>
<p>1) You are in. It is VERY hard to get thrown out, since you have basic smarts and study skills or you would not have gotten in. For the first time in a long time, relax and enjoy learning. The subjects are highly relevant to what you want to do - i.e. save lives. Anatomy is fascinating. Thinking you have all the weird diseases is a great way to learn them!</p>
<p>2)Your classmates are nice human beings. All the insanely competitive pre-meds did not get in. You love your classmates and you HELP EACH OTHER</p>
<p>3) You have long summer vacations.</p>
<p>4) When the clinical rotations start you are not expected to know much yet, and they are REALLY COOL</p>
<p>Unfortunately, after medical school comes internship. Not exactly the same as above.</p>
<p>PsychoDad is being honest. Many “mature” physicians share a similar viewpoint, and want to return to the longer (rigorous) work weeks for trainees. Many physicians feel that the shrinking reimbursements, rising malpractice premiums, crush to see more patients (by the minute) and growth in the percentage of physicians employed by for profit health groups is destroying the reason we went in to medicine. </p>
<p>The majority of polled physicians would not currently recommend medicine as a career to their children, not so much because of the time and difficulty involved, but because of the regulation and hassle. At times I wholeheartedly agree.</p>
<p>But at other times, I do a good service for another human being and wonder at the richness of that experience, and my good fortune in being a physician. </p>
<p>My D is considering medicine. I am helping her get ready, and I realize her experience will certainly be different than mine was. I guess my best advice would be to always try to remember why you chose to become a physician, irregardless of the hour, the lack of sleep, the possible malpractice suits, the difficult patients, the shrinking reimbursement, the hamfisted administrators, and the endless student loans. Then you will be happy.</p>
<p>eadad- if your son’s program is found to be in violation of the rules (all it takes is one unhappy resident to rat the program out), the program could be put on probation, and for repeat offenders, loss of accreditation. And BTW, in practice, there are no limits on work hours- I routinely work more than 80 hours/week.</p>
<p>For those not in medicine, take it from someone who is that the quality of most primary care physicians coming out of training is abysmal- they can’t take care of sick patients at all and consult every specialist to manage a patient, to the point where no one is managing the patient. I believe that this is a direct result of work limits. It is pretty disheartening to see an internist write in his/her plan of care: “management of the patient as per specialists”.</p>
<p>Overdeferral to specialists was a common complaint even in the House of God era, and I actually think I recall Sherlock Holmes (fictional, but based upon and written by a physician) issuing similar complaints about neurologists. I suppose it’s conceivable that duty hours are exacerbating the problem.</p>
<p>Awww, I feel sorry for you. Perhaps you should have chosen a career where everyone is happy (e.g. … nothing comes to mind, but I’m sure you know of some) </p>
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<p>Wow, lawsuits! No other career choice has that problem. It’s interesting, I have had many discussions with practicing physicians, and not a single one of them has mentioned “government intrusion”. Many of them have mentioned private insurance companies trying to practice medicine through their policies, but not government. Hmmm, perhaps you can explain. </p>
<p>If you really don’t think it’s “worth the effort”, perhaps you should retire, soon.</p>
<p>2prepMom,
I would say that my D. who is few weeks short of completing her second year, feel a bit different about her experience at Med. School, while being happy with the fact that she is in.
relax and enjoy learning
Some of it D.definitely enjoys more than others. However, no relaxation about it, just push, push, and push more, work harder and harder…
2)Your classmates are nice human beings. All the insanely competitive pre-meds did not get in. You love your classmates and you HELP EACH OTHER
yes, she likes some of them more than others, there are many “insanely competitive pre-meds who GOT IN” and while there is no need to be this way any more, they are who they are and continue their way. D. is working very hard at adjusting to some personalities that she has been avoiding her entire life. She is trying to look at it positively as a learning experience, but it is additional layer of pressure, she surely wish that it was not there. Some people are simply more sensitive and while it might be a very great asset in some circumstances, they have to deal with their sensitivity.</p>
<p>3) You have long summer vacations.
They had only one summer off, no summer vacations at D’s school. During that one summer off (after first year), vast majority were doing research. Few were selected for travel abroad opportunity that many applied to. My D. was one of them. They had great challenges during this trip, but it was very rewarding. Yes, it was only 4 weeks, so D. had the rest of the summer off. People who were doing Research had longer commitments. No more summers off, D’s rotations start in March (in few weeks) and continue all thru her graduations, summers including. So, she does not have experience with rotations yet.<br>
I would say, that Medical School experience is probably very different from person to person and the assessment of it might also depend on the timing of this assessment. Resident will not assess it in the same way as a current Medical Student, and even MS4 probably would not have the same feeling about it as MS2.</p>
<p>First let’s separate fact from fiction. You say “all other insurers”. What do you mean by this. Sadly, the PP&ACA is not a single payer system, in fact it is not a payer at all. Please explain.</p>
<p>Before the PP&ACA there was Medicare/Medicaid. I can only assume that you have the same issue here since these programs actually set rates. Do you understand that the vast majority of these patients would not seek care at all if these programs were not in place? So your choice is discount services to those in these programs or don’t see them at all. It’s your choice. The health care industry has exploded since these programs were initiated. Do you think that was a bad thing? </p>
<p>I’m curious, why did you get into medicine? $$? Did the interest of the patient factor into your decision? I think it’s very telling that you complain about government but have not said a word about the intrusion of private insurance companies. Perhaps your problems have nothing to do with medicine.</p>
<p>Everybody is loosing the fact that besides having a passion (and one absolutely has to be passionate to endure, there is no question in my mind), medicine provides secure employment. Amount of $$$ is absolutely secondary to having or not having a job. I have been unemployed 9 times. It is not fun at all. Besides loosing huge portion of our family income, it puts a person in such a disarray, it is very depressing. I have been in the field that many would asses as the one with more job opportunities than many others. I know many MD and also many IT proffessionals and engineers. No MD ever ever mentioned or think to ask about job. They never have to deal with being out of job. However, if you talk to any other proffessional, that is the first question on thier mind, how is your job. They do not mean at all your income, nobody cares, they mean how secure you feel at the moment about your job prospects for tomorrow. I get up every morning and pray in my mind that I have a job today and hopefully tomorrow. My H. feels the same. We are IT and enginer. Does MD go thru this routine? I do not think so.</p>
<p>And BTW, in practice, there are no limits on work hours- I routinely work more than 80 hours/week.</p>
<p>Yea, but you’re higly compensated so you can pay for people to do the grunt work involved with yardwork, meal prep, housework, laundry, etc…or you have a spouse who does those things. Those in residency are modestly paid.</p>
<p>MODERATOR NOTE: Per CCs Terms of Service, political comments/discussions are not permitted, this includes the mentioning of political parties or people. </p>
<p>Yes, this is an important subject, just not here on CC, there are many other forums that would allow/welcome such a discussion. As far as leniency in moderation, it’s been tried many times in the past. It’s never worked before and I don’t see any indication from the current tit for tat that this situation is any different. </p>