Is medicating students the "new black"?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Thank you, Pizzagirl. I am ever so grateful. And I have to attribute the fact that he is alive to drugs. Without those chemotherapy agents, he would have been dead in less than a year as he had a very aggressive cancer that needed immediate aggressive treatment.</p>

<p>Yes, Jym, the pendulum swings both ways. Here, we have parents who don’t want to immunize, don’t want to give kids any meds, and at the other extreme those who are reaching out to every new drug on the market, both legitimate and black.</p>

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<p>cpt-
Agreed-- there are extremes on both sides. IMO, when the choice a parent makes for their kid affects both their child and the safety of others, I find that particularly selfish.</p>

<p>I am glad modern science saved your child. Some people (not referring to any posters here-- just in generalities) tend to equate prescribed medication with street “drugs” and dont want “drugs” or their their child “drugged”. Very confused logic, IMO.</p>

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<p>“That’s too bad. How many people suffered or went on to live unproductive lives, get involved with drugs, etc. that could have been helped with appropriate psychiatric intervention and / or medication?”</p>

<p>Fewer than those who die at the hands of corrupt doctors. Of 'course medication is good for some, no sensible person is arguing that they’re not. A doctor knows whether or not your kid should be on medication, and if you leave the decision up to them they’ll decide medication every time (unless it can leave them liable to a lawsuit). Given most parents aren’t trained in medicine, sometimes parents make the wrong decisions about whether they should medicate their kids or not. That’s still better than blindly following whatever the doctor tells you.</p>

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<p>^^ That is so wrong on so many levels. Some doctors make mistakes, but they aren’t “corrupt”. And if every patient/family decides to use medication “every time”, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. IF you don’t want your Drs advice, why go to the doctor?
Sheesh.</p>

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<p>Many doctors make mistakes and some are even “corrupt” but the vast majority, most of the time are trying to do the best they can for their patients. </p>

<p>Sheesh is right.</p>

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<p>There is a HUGE, HUGE difference between drugs against cancer, immunizations and drugs for ADHD/"attention problems. Please do not equate the two. Saying that your son was saved from leukemia from drugs has absolutely no bearing on the use of psychiatric drugs. The idea that “all drugs are good for treating problems” is just as bad as those who forsake all modern medicine.</p>

<p>Children in this country are over diagnosed for attention disorders. How a parent can ethically put their 3rd grader on mind-altering substances is beyond me. Reminds me of a TED video by Ted Robinson in which he talks about a young girl who wouldn’t sit still in her classes. She later became an extremely successful theatre ballerina / director.</p>

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<p>[Gillian</a> Lynne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“Gillian Lynne - Wikipedia”>Gillian Lynne - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>In this day and age, she would have been put on ADHD medicine. For shame.</p>

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<p>I am a doctor and a parent of a son who was diagnosed with ADHD in primary school and prescribed ritalin. He did not like the effect it had on his appetite and did not want to take the medication. He would “palm” his medication and we were constantly finding ritalin tablets hidden all over the house that he said he had taken. He is going into his senior year in high school and I have decided he is old enough to make his own decisions about medication and no longer try to make him take it.</p>

<p>He has a very high IQ and scored very well on the SATs but his GPA is mediocre at best. This is mainly due to his disorganization in regard to his school work resulting in failure to do homework, doing homework but forgetting to turn it in and not following through on assignments. Even though he would get good grades on tests, so much weight was put on timely completion of homework assignments his final grades would generally be poor. I believe if he had taken the ritalin he would not have had these problems and his GPA would be a lot higher. Now he is about to apply to colleges and while his SAT scores would make him competitive for a top 20 school or any UC campuses here in California, his GPA essentially relegates him to possible acceptance at a lower tier California State University (CSU). It saddens me to think of all the opportunities that he would have had but are now closed to him because he would not take his medication</p>

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<p>^Have you ever considered that maybe his personal choice and happiness concerning medication is more important than his acceptance into some prestigious school?</p>

<p>Never change, CC parents, never change.</p>

<p>Never mind that

  1. He might not be as intelligent if he was on the medication
  2. The idea that high GPA = intelligence is about as backward-minded as they come</p>
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<p>You think that there are no psychiatric drugs on a children’s oncology ward? Ha! Many of the parents HAD to go on something dealing with the dx, treatment, and outcomes. The joke was that we parents were as doped up as the kids just to function. And yes, those are the new designer drugs like Prozac that are not as dangerous as the old tranquilizers. Also many of the kids end up with learning disabilities and psych issues because leukemia has a required central nervous system treatment that may include cranial radiation. You had better believe that some of those very drugs that are discussed are relevant to kids in life threatening situations and those who have to deal with them. </p>

<p>My boys went to all boys school K-8. For some reason, boys seem more at risk for LD and ADD. There were and are some third graders there who would not be permitted to go to a regular school without their meds. I’ve known some of these kids for years, and now many are going off the meds as puberty hits and the meds and dosages and needs change. Very difficult situation for the parents. Most of the parents hate, hate, hate the fact their kid has to take those meds, but the life, opportunities, and environment would be much worse it they did not. My older son’s one friend was totally off the wall without his meds. He has turned into a fine young man, but those were some rough years even with the meds, and intolerable without them. You gotta live it or see it to understand, I think.</p>

<p>But I do agree that the band of acceptable behavior has narrowed in the last generation with schools, organizations, parents less tolerant of behavior and episodes that would have been acceptable in our generation. My husband laments the loss of some of the things that he used to do that would get our kids jailed or kicked out of school these days.</p>

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<p>pandem,
I think calling ADHD meds “mind-altering drugs” is a <strong>bit</strong> melodramatic. These meds are not hallucinogens. And no one is saying that “all drugs are good for treating all problems”. That is also an overstatement. But this line made me chuckle

I think you mean don’t equate the THREE (Oncology meds, immunizations and stimulants or other meds for management of ADHD.) :D</p>

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<p>My kids have always hated meds, even when the docs want them to take the meds to help relieve their symptoms. They and we have always wanted the minimum meds necessary.</p>

<p>One of the big issues with meds is that some of us are VERY sensitive, especially when we take the med over a prolonged period. With little, growing bodies, this is especially applicable. Med trials are often done on few folks and over a relatively short term rather than the many years that some meds are prescribed for & taken. A lot of side effects are dose dependent & increase with the longer the med is taken.</p>

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<p>as somebody who takes ADD medication, I can offer the following wisdom:</p>

<p>ADD drugs do not MAKE one focus. They give on the ability to focus. If I want to be off task when I’m taking my meds, I can do so easily. However, if I want to be focused, it is much easier for me to be so when taking medication then when not doing so. Yes, it would be possible for me, and I imagine younger children with attention issues, to be able to focus appropriately when not on medication, but it would require extreme mental discipline (going far beyond simple time-management or appropriate prioritisation) which a) I don’t have and don’t feel like developing, and b) is not found in young children. Given the alternative–taking innocuous medication (mine is largely innocuous) which enables me to focus when I need to–I see no harm in taking that alternative. It does not make me smarter or more focused as a person, but it does enable me to navigate around distractions in my mind and my environment.</p>

<p>The doctor who prescribes my medication always asks whether I think I need to be on the dosage I am on or whether I want to be on the medications at all. My parents thoroughly thought out the decision to put me on medications years ago, and I have switched medications several times because the previous medication was either not working or had unacceptable side effects. Thus, in my experience, doctors have not been shoving pills down my throat or dealt with me ‘corruptly.’</p>

<p>I think that the problem with ADD medications today is that many parents see it as just a magic happy pill that will make all the problems go away. If it doesn’t, the only solution they see is to up the dosage. Kids in college substitute adderall for healthy sleeping habits, appropriate priorities, and good time management. As I said before, medication facilitates focus in people who have trouble focusing in its absence. Teaching the importance of focus and dilligence, building study skills, and instructiong appropriate behaviour is something which needs to be done by the parents and any neccesary behavioural therapy.</p>

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<p>^I am with you, IBfootballer. I have gone on and off and up and down on my ADHD medications my whole life and my doctors have been nothing but wholeheartedly supportive and helpful with whatever I wanted to do. I was almost illiterate in the third grade until I got my ADHD diagnosis, and that same year I jumped to one of the top readers in the class. I stopped hating school and flourished beautifully after that with no accommodations, all I needed were my medications. And I LOVED reading! I still remember what it was like that year when I could finally read and how beautiful it was that I could finally do it. I personally think it would have been unethical to know I had all that potential and force me to miss out on it. The meds do not force me to focus and really do not alter anything at all, except the thing that feels like a wild animal spinning around and jumping up and down inside my head to keep me from doing anything properly goes away. I still have to use a very high level of self discipline to accomplish the things that I do, and I still get distracted very easily, but it is such that working is POSSIBLE with medications.</p>

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<p>I’ve never understood the whole ‘all medications’ are bad attitude. It all comes down to benefits vs risk as well as quality of life of issues and long-term consequences. </p>

<p>Let’s take some examples: you have a kid with severe ADHD, he has no friends, he can’t manage to complete the first assignment, he disrupts the whole class. Sure, you try some behavior modification techniques first but if that doesn’t work, why wouldn’t you try a medication that can improve the quality of your child’s life and set them on the path for future success instead of one failure after another.</p>

<p>Let’s take another example, you have high blood pressure. It runs in your family, you do the normal modifications to try to bring it down (less salt, more exercise, lose weight, etc) and it doesn’t budge. We know that if it’s managed with medication it reduces your risk of stroke and kidney failure. Why would you not choose to take it if it didn’t cause you to have severe side effects?</p>

<p>Here’s the thing - I analyze medical data for a living -our hospital is filled with patients who refuse to comply with physician medication recommendations. It’s one of the top reasons re-admission rates are so high for people with congestive heart failure and diabetes. Both extremely manageable diseases * when patients take their medications.* Aside from the fact that some people really can’t afford to buy the medication, do you know what the #1 reason is why people don’t take these life-saving medications is? I don’t like taking medications. Well, I guess they do like dying an early death because that is what happens to many people when they refuse to comply with medical instructions. I know this is an extreme example but my point is - no one should assume that all drugs are bad. They’re not. Some drugs are bad for some people some of the time. There are drugs out there (hormone replacement therapy - bio-identical or synthetic) that I wouldn’t take unless I was suffering to the point that my quality of life was greatly diminished but then I would take even those. Again - it’s about weighing the benefit vs. risk. </p>

<p>I would also add that you shouldn’t fall prey to the idea that somehow things that are ‘natural’ and are sold in health food stores are safer. They’re not - in fact, they are generally more riskier to take because no one monitors the quality of manufacturing of these drugs, there is no mechanism to report side-effects of these drugs nor is any type of testing done on these items.</p>

<p>I do believe we have a problem in this country in that drugs are brought to market too soon and we often don’t know the consequences of them until they have been on the market for several years or more. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t many drugs out there that help a lot of people. Each person should take the time to understand their health conditions (with the internet there is absolutely no excuse for not acquiring your own knowledge base on any condition you have) and what the options are. I never rely 100% on my physician to tell me what to do. I take his good advice under consideration and weigh the pros and cons of his recommendations. If I have concerns about something he is prescribing, he will work with me to find alternatives. If he didn’t, I would be looking for another physician.</p>

<p>Personally, I don’t know anyone who would ‘drug’ their kid for the sake of convenience or to make them ‘smarter’. Most people I know are pretty thoughtful about the decisions they make for their kids and only agree to medications as a last resort.</p>

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<p>I have always suspected that my older kids were on the ADD spectrum. But without the hyperactivity, there was not the need to medicate. Sometimes I wonder if it would have made things better for them. The inability to focus did take a toll. When they were in public school, I would get notification each year for this issue and have to meet with special services and discuss these kids. Through behavior modification and staying on top of them more than I wanted to do, we got by. Putting them in private school made a big difference because I picked an all boys school where it seems like a lot of kids were in that category and the teachers knew how to handle the situation. Also, the classes were much smaller, and the setting far more personal. </p>

<p>Still there were issues that may have been alleviated with meds. Just didn’t do them. But I have seen kids where not giving them some meds would be a true problem. They would not be able to function in a normal classroom and interact with others in an acceptable way. Some of those hyper kids were way, way off and truly needed help. Most of the mothers hated to medicate them and worked at trying to minimize and wean them of the medication, and trying all kinds of diets and holistic methods. Most of the kids were undergoing counseling too and had IEPs for behavior at school. </p>

<p>In colleges and in some high school settings, adderall and other drugs have sneaked into the picture. I have heard that there are kids using it as a supplement. No proof, no real knowledge. Just the buzz. There have also been concerns that some of the kids getting extra test time did not really need it medically. Again hard facts. Just buzz again. There are kids on anti depressants and anti anxiety meds. That I know. I don’t know the details and how necessary these meds are. I have trouble believing that parents would give these meds to young people without a good strong reason. Maybe not, but I don’t know. </p>

<p>In college, bootleg adderall is an issue. Considered a mental steroid, kids get it and use to stay up and study or finish a project. Kids who legitimately have a prescription sometimes sell their stash, and there are also black markets for the drug. Articles have been written about this.</p>

<p>An old friend of mine whose father was a doctor used to get amphetamines to get her through college. Yeah, I know. Unprofessional, illegal, unconscionable, but true. There were a number of kids I knew who were on prescription valium and other legal prescription meds. Part of the school psych servives. I’m sure the same is still happening, only the new generation of anti depressant/anti anxiety drugs are prescribed these days.</p>

<p>How prevalent? How much abuse? I don’t know. If the meds prevent breakdowns, suicide attempts, harmful activities , they make sense. How effective are they, again, I don’t know. I prefer to stay away from drugs, prescription, OTC, whatever. Medical necessity has made it necessary for us to enter that world, but we have fortunately made it out. None of my kids or family are on any meds that I know about.</p>

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<p>“IF you don’t want your Drs advice, why go to the doctor?”</p>

<ol>
<li><p>They can give you numbers. “Your _______ is X.” </p></li>
<li><p>If you do want medication, the only legal way is to go through them. </p></li>
<li><p>Soon, my life will be taxed if I don’t. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>" Some doctors make mistakes, but they aren’t “corrupt”." + “Many doctors make mistakes and some are even “corrupt” but the vast majority, most of the time are trying to do the best they can for their patients.”</p>

<p>That’s very trusting and optimistic of you two. Good luck. </p>

<p>I’d rather be wrong if it’s me who’s wrong, and not because I was lied to by a doctor.</p>

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<p>Your doctor isn’t going to lie to you. What a jaded attitude. Geez. And your responses 1-3 don’t really make any sense. </p>

<p>Most patients fully expect/want a prescription when they go to the Dr, and many are disappointed if they don’t get one (there is research on this-- perhaps you can look it up). They aren’t going to the Dr so the Dr can make $$ writing scripts. Geez.</p>

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<p>No, actually there isn’t. You seem to be under the delusion that emotional / neurological issues might not have a biological basis. The person who is severely depressed or has severe anxiety may have a biochemical problem <em>just as much</em> as the person whose insulin doesn’t produce enough pancreas. You’d be amazed at how much biochemistry there is underneath our moods, ability to function / cope. If there weren’t, then why is the postpartum period associated with depression, when women are quite literally a stew of hormones?</p>

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<p>My husband didn’t take suggested meds, and has had two strokes in a year, at 62.</p>

<p>Two of my kids have several chronic illnesses (one is on insulin) and would either not do well or could die if they don’t take them.</p>

<p>That said, anyone who completely trusts doctors (and we have a lot of experience) is either naive or hasn’t yet had to deal with the medical system. Doctors are often concerned more with liability than the patient. They will not do anything outside of an appointment, because that time is not paid. PCP’s and specialists do not coordinate care or even talk to each other. Most MD’s hear only the first few sentences out of your mouth, and have trouble with anything complex. Most will never say the magic words, “I don’t know,” and certainly not “I’m sorry.” Finally, if the patient does not respond to the treatment or has side effects, then patient is blamed. Etc.</p>

<p>It takes time and attention to find the good ones, and there are some truly great doctors out there: I would say, one out of five.</p>

<p>Parents need to be proactive and do a lot of research, to keep their kids safe, whether they are on meds or not.</p>

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<p>^^^Well, for number 1 they can tell you what your cholesterol level is, as an example. I don’t see how you can’t understand 2. Number three I’m referring to the health reform bill which will in the future place a $700/year tax on the lives of those without medical insurance. Goes into effect in 2014.</p>