Is Medicine a good idea?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Seems every time (senior year, so it is a lot!) any one asks about my son's college choices et al., and his liking to pre-med comes up, I am met with the same concern "their Sally" had about pre-med and swiftly changed to a better major, for 'these times'. </p>

<p>I have not tried to influence DS pro or con. I have encouraged him to shadow, which he has for two years, to really see what medicine is about. I have sent him articles as I see them about following your dream, or the state of Obama care for medicine. I have talked with doctor friends, and have shared my conversations with DS. I really want him to go into this with eyes wide open...the years of schooling, etc.</p>

<p>WHAT IS YOUR TAKE???</p>

<p>IS MEDICINE A GOOD IDEA?? SSOOOO many are saying it is NOT anymore. My thought, you should do what interests you and the job will come. (within reason, anthropology majors)</p>

<p>THOUGHTS??</p>

2

<p>Do they give specific reasons for why they think medicine is a bad option? Is it based on the job prospects after medical school or the difficulty of getting into medical school? With the affordable care act, millions more Americans will be gaining better access to healthcare, so I have heard there will be an increasing demand for doctors, particularly in primary care. (Sadly, it seems our society does not value or pay primary care physicians as much as those in many specialties.)</p>

3

<p>^^ not exactly true nano…primary care physicians are paid more by medicaid here than specialists, for the same level of service for E&M codes…they just received a bump in remittance to match medicare reimbursement rates. …medical specialists did not get the same bump</p>

4

<p>How much of the income comes from medicare, though? If you look at the average salary for an anesthesiologist vs. a family practice doctor, they’re not the same.</p>

5

<p>depends on the specialty… our specialty is 30% care, 30% caid, rest is things like bc etc, this year alone we have taken a medicare 2% cut for sequester and 60-70% cut for procedures, and starting today another 8% cut on caid (blue cross has matched the cuts from care on procedures)</p>

6

<p>If your son is looking for banker’s hours and an I-banker’s income–medicine is the wrong place to be looking. </p>

<p>While doctors will continue to earn above average incomes, I believe they will not be as high as in the past. (Of course, a physician’s earning potential is dependent upon a great many things, including specialty, location and type of practice.)</p>

<p>Medicine requires an extremely long training period (undergrad, med school, residency adds up to a a minimum of 12 years) and places most med students into significant debt that they will be paying off for decades.</p>

<p>I have 2 children in medicine and I have very mixed feeling about it. On the one hand, I am happy that each has found something they value as a career; on the other, medicine can be a very difficult lifestyle and there are lots of ways to earn the same amount of money with less stress, less hassle, less debt, and less exposure to the gritty side of life.</p>

<p>There are very, very many healthcare-related jobs that don’t involve medical school. I’m sure that your son hasn’t even heard of most of them**. Many of them require fewer years of training (even if a PhD is needed) than does becoming a physician. Many of these jobs earn in the same range as a physician.</p>

<p>** This is not a criticisim of your son. High schools do a terrible job of career education. High schoolers only think there are 6 possible careers: doctors, lawyers, teachers, bankers, business and whatever their parents did. In reality, there are tens of thousands of different careers.</p>

<p>~~~~</p>

<p>P.S. why the slam on anthro majors? I know a number of very successful anthropology majors who do things like epidemiology, city planning, zookeeping (primates), historical preservation, public health non-profits, neuroscience, etc.</p>

7

<p>Just the fact that this question is even being asked indicates a disquiet. A few years ago, just asking the question “Is medicine a good career?” would have seemed silly. </p>

<p>I am worried too. If the best and brightest science minds no longer see medicine as a good career option, then healthcare is in major trouble.</p>

8

<p>I would had have the same reservations 5 or 10 years ago as I do today. It’s not about money and debt—it’s about the lifestyle.</p>

9

<p>As a physician, I’m always reluctant to offer advice to those considering medicine as a career. It is very hard to explain the the commitment required to most 17 year olds.</p>

<p>I will encourage those who have a strong desire with realistic expectations. Medicine is still a great calling and honorable profession despite the changes looming ahead.</p>

10

<p>*am met with the same concern “their Sally” had about pre-med and swiftly changed to a better major, for ‘these times’. *</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>“better major”??? Premed isn’t a major. A student can major in whatever they want (English, Engineering, Computer Science, Music, History, etc) and be premed.</p>

<p>that said, I wouldn’t major in Bio unless I was near certain of going to med school. </p>

<p>If these folks are worried about Lil Sally, then why isn’t she majoring in something that allows for both options…either going on to med school, or getting a job in another career?</p>

<p>My own son majored in Chem Engineering. He’s now in med school. If he had decided against med school, he’d be well employed right now. BTW…we paid nearly nothing for his undergrad. He had a full tuition scholarship, plus $4500 per year in add’l scholarships. He also rec’d small ($1k - $3k) scholarships from some nat’l eng’g associations and an endowed scholarship from his school.</p>

<p>He chose that route so that he wouldn’t have debt for med school.</p>

11

<p>^ good chemical engineers make 6 figure numbers quickly after leaving college. so theoretically he would probably do quite well if he just went with it if the goal is money!</p>

12

<p>texas, $ isn’t the goal. yes, to be compensated for your job, is obvious. but that isn’t the lure.</p>

<p>mom2, yes, I am aware, I am saying premed not as a major, but as a direction. one only needs to be on this board a nanosecond to know that one!! :)</p>

<p>mnm, well put. that is why I am wanting him to see first hand what it is, to understand the calling. thanks</p>

<p>wowmom, yes, he is looking at the lifestyle and discussing that with the dr’s he is shadowing. And no offense taken, I too think that he should focus on the direction, be it medicine, and that related paths may present themselves as he goes…and no, I think you wrapped up the professions I hear…as to the anthropology majors?? just throwing that loosely out there, as I WAS one, and heard that rap a lot!!! :slight_smile: Yes, I did ok! “go with your interest”…now I could name a few majors that still give me pause, but I will refrain!!</p>

13

<p>nano, I am hearing it predominately (or what worries me most) from the concern of health care and political changes within that. the years of schooling is not a great concern, the lifestyle is, somewhat…I believe there are some areas in medicine that have greater lifestyle opportunities, possibly less pay, but that is not the goal. it is following his interest. </p>

<p>parent, this is what I do not know, the stats you two are discussing.</p>

<p>Tatin, yes, exactly!</p>

14

<p>I can understand that the concern might be that incomes may drop. I think that’s why there’s a desire to minimize total debt.</p>

<p>Instead of accumulating undergrad debt and financing all of med school, many are trying to minimize all debt (little/no undergrad debt and less med school debt).</p>

15

<p>netti, pm any time… i would recommend that anyone considering med now, consider an “employed position”, hospitalist etc. the days of private practice are numbered imo… with the regulations, cut in reimbursements, call hours etc… it is becoming difficult</p>

16

<p>There is NO GENERAL “good” or “bad” in choosing medicine. It is good for some, it is bad for others, it s simply NOT achievable to the third group primarily because they never will bring themselves to the level of hard work required. Then, there is sitll another group who do not see themselves doing anything else, period, they feel that they fit perfectly in this, they are willing to adjust in every step to whatever required of them, including (but not limited) to studying for 14 hours every day for several weeks. Whatever is required, they will step up their effort. You also need to be strong for this, you have to be prepared to break down and get up and stand strong again and again.
Compensation, hours, etc. are important but not to the point of pushing yourself doing what you hate for over 8 hours every weekday for the rest of your life. I have been doing the wrong thing for over decade, I know exactly how it feels. Feeling out of place is not a good idea in a very challenging field of medicine. Yes, please, consider carefully, compensation, level of debt, schooling years, every day commitment, but your first priority is if you personally like it or not. If this high level tells you that it it not your thing, then you better listen. I was thinking that I will ge used to whatever I was dong. I has never happened. I went back to school and pursued what I was always dreaming about and it has worked very well for few decades. My experience has nothing to do with medicine. It has to do with choosing the right future for YOURSELF. Do not listen to anybody, ask yourself.</p>

17

<p>This is coming from a '13 engineering grad.
Not sure why everyone wants to be a doctor, but it seems as if a good 50% of the people who I hung out with in college were pre-med. Many choose to go into the “pre-med” route because of the prestige and pay, others have the interest, but most people chose the route because of force from there parents and because they honestly have no clue what they want to do with there life. If you are going to do it for the money, back out now. You might see doctors driving nice cars, taking nice vacation, and live in some of the finest homes, but they’re all undermined in debt. Lets put it into perspective. Lets say you have around $35k debt from undergrad plus $200k debt in med school (total debt= $235k). While you’re in residency for 4-5 years you are making maybe $40k a year, of which 50% will go to tax, food, trying to live (so your savings is roughly maybe $20k). While you are in residency, interest will accrue on your student loans at around 7%, compounded monthly. Walking out after 4 years of residency, that is around $280k in debt. Then you start practicing, making your glorious $150k-$180k salary. Of that salary, 25% goes to taxes, another percentage goes to malpractice insurance, another percentage goes to living expenses, etc. So basically , in the end, you are getting crap. If you like living with these circumstances, go ahead. Don’t go to medicine for the money, go because you have a passion.</p>

18

<p>Just like any other profession, do it because you love it. A 17 year old does not know what he is going to love. He should go to school, major in whatever field he finds passion, and discover what he loves. As a parent, you should not be pushing him to medicine or away from it. You’ve done your job - it’s time for him to find his way. </p>

<p>As for anongrad2013, I know very few recent grads with debt even approaching 280K, and very few with income that low. Average debt is 170K. Many student loan programs lower interest rates during residency and allow you to pay interest only through residency. Debt burden can be lowered significantly by getting a National Health Service scholarship and serving your country in a civilian capacity for a couple of years. [Home</a> - NHSC](<a href=“http://nhsc.hrsa.gov%5DHome”>http://nhsc.hrsa.gov) Most residents now make about $50,000, and the hours are much reduced, allowing a little work on the side.</p>

<p>Even primary care grads are starting at over 200K in California. Malpractice insurance is paid by one’s employer, or if self-employed, it is part of your overhead. It certainly does not come out of your income.</p>

19

<p>170k is still alot of debt. If you look at the SDN forum, you’ll see alot of grads with 250k+ debt. Yes 200k in California, where the cost of living plus state and federal taxes will eat that 200k up fast. I know a large majority of doctors do not want to work for an employer- they tend to start their own practice where they do have to pay for malpractice insurance. Anyways, if you really want to know the deception, check out the link below written by a doctor. It even shows a handy diagram of your debt vs. income as you progress through undergrad, med school, residency,etc.</p>

<p>[The</a> Deceptive Income of Physicians | Doctors do not make as much money as you think](<a href=“http://benbrownmd.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/]The”>http://benbrownmd.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/)</p>

20

<p>“I know a large majority of doctors do not want to work for an employer.”
I have no idea how you can “know” this when it’s simply not true-especially in California, a state that is home to Kaiser Permanente, a medical group employing many, many physicians. The solo practitioner is getting rarer and rarer, with large and larger physician groups being more and more common.
OP: There are no sure bets anymore in anything, at least in the world of education, but there is still a demand for physicians, and as American continues to age, this demand will continue. But pre-med is a tough slog, and there’s no sure bet of getting into medical school. So if it’s an interest to your student, work the cost/benefit; it’s a tough road to becoming a physician but many, many physicians are glad they followed that road. It is a demanding, challenging, and (potentially) personally rewarding career. No guarantees of riches at the end of the road, but there is always the chance of helping another person in his/her time of great need; What could be more rewarding than that?</p>