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She is just expecting to go to college, and expecting that Mommy and Daddy are paying for it.
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<p>Well, goodness gracious, who raised this kid, anyway?!?!?!</p>
<p>Let me expand on that....</p>
<p>What have YOU done to 1.) raise your D with expectations that align to your thinking; 2.) teach her about finances; 3.) let her learn about paying for things/how much things cost?</p>
<p>Perhaps, just perhaps, you have not done as good a job as you could have in managing her expectations, in letting her know what she could and should expect from you, in teaching her how to get what she wants on her own instead of handing it to her. And now you are, perhaps, reaping what you sowed.</p>
<p>Just perhaps...</p>
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The problem started about a month ago when we found out from her coach that she had turned down offers already, and never bothered to say anything to us. They were to smaller schools and not to where she really wants to go. If she have been offered the opportunity to play at the D1 level she would have done it, but since only (in her words) Junior Colleges were making offers she doesn't want to play.
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<p>Something is missing in this story. While the money issue is obviously of great importance, it does not dwarf that college is about getting an education. The "offers" made by many Junior colleges are often fool's gold. Have you computed the value of the "free money" in terms of dollars per hour? Does the athletic "scholarships" include ALL costs and how do those costs compare to the costs of your local schools? </p>
<p>Fwiw, every year there is a parade of students announcing athletic scholarships from schools nobody ever heard off, except for the HS coaches. As soon as the flashes of the local TV and newspapers stop shining, the reality sinks in. And that reality is a tale of quasi slavery in exchange for little education in places nobody would ever WANT to visit, let alone spend 2 or 4 years at. Even at great schools, the "job" of a student athlete is rarely a walk in the park, especially in non-revenue sports. </p>
<p>Could it be that your child is the only one not fooled by offers that are not what they're supposed to be. Saying no the sounds of sirens is often the very best decision a student can make, as playing "college ball" is rarely anything more than an ego-boosting for parents and coaches.</p>
<p>You all need to understand something, this has been the plan for the last three years. She gave up playing 2 other sports that conflicted with Softball because she wanted to concentrate more on improving in Softball and she did. HER DECISION, and we supported her, she knew it was a means for her to go to college then, and now out of the blue has changed her mind. That is where I am lost!! She did have to deal with a new coach this year and he did drive all of the girls crazy, and I think that is why she has had such a change of heart.
As to all of you talking about there are still other costs involved, I know that, but if you get tuition and housing taken care of, you take it.
One of my good friends played D1 football, and went on into the NFL, and has lived a comfortable life and earned his degree. I posed this question to him and his response "You have to take the scholarship, why pay for school when someone else is willing to assist you" I have to agree with him, it is insane to turn down such an opportunity, it only comes around once in a lifetime. I turned down a golf scholarship when I graduated, and I will regret it for the rest of my life. Now in my 40's, been working the same job for 20+ years with no degree to fall back on. Wow what a waste!</p>
<p>Is your daughter really about to graduate? Or is she finishing 11th grade? It seems waaay late in the process to be having these discussions essentially for the first time. Did you all forget to discuss whether you expected her to accept any softball scholarship she was offered, even if it meant going to a juco? That that was an essential part of the family finances -- she was expected to earn her way through college as a professional athlete? Did you have a contingency plan in case she got injured? Was she in on it?</p>
<p>I feel terrible for you, and sympathetic towards your dilemma, but I think you did a lot to dig the hole you are in. If you and your daughter had really discussed this -- say, starting a year ago, if she's really a 12th grader -- by this point you would probably both be on the same page. You have a lot of catching up to do, and I'll bet that it's not going to be easy.</p>
<p>My two cents: </p>
<p>It is not reasonable or appropriate for you to demand that she take an athletic scholarship, however much you like the idea. Being a college athlete, even in juco, is real, hard, dangerous work, and it completely takes over the college experience, for better and/or for worse. Plus, you can't force her to want it; you are setting both of you up for failure if you try.</p>
<p>That doesn't mean you shouldn't discuss it. Obviously, if she had some legitimate hope of a D1 scholarship, a juco scholarship can be a means to that end. It's fair to ask if she's really changed her mind, or is simply feeling discouraged. I can't tell from your posts, and I'm not sure you know what you think about it. But it's one thing to say, "Here's how you can work towards your objective," and quite another to say, "You are an ungrateful witch for turning down free money." (Which, as everyone has pointed out, isn't remotely free.)</p>
<p>You also need to face some realities. It is not reasonable for you to fail to contribute to her college, because you certainly would have had to contribute if she had done what you wanted her to. The juco scholarship would not likely have covered all her expenses, it would have limited the amount of paid work she could do, and it would only have been for two years. She might not have been offered any scholarships -- apparently you didn't even know she had been until recently. (What did you think was happening? What did you think she was going to do?) So -- whether you knew it or not -- somewhere in there you had a budget for her college education. </p>
<p>It's not hers to play with any way she wants, but it's awfully ugly for you to withhold it because you are angry she wants to drop softball. Especially if you never made clear that was your position until now. She ought to understand what it is, and to respect your needs; you ought to listen to her carefully and to respect her needs. Both of you need to work on what an appropriate softball-less budget will look like, and what her options are within it.</p>
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One of my good friends played D1 football, and went on into the NFL, and has lived a comfortable life and earned his degree.
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<p>That is the MIRAGE that attracts so many people. However, except for an incredibly small percentage of students, the road to NFL, NBA, or MLB riches is just an impossible illusion. Take the number of HS students who compete in sports this year and compare it to the number of professional players who have enjoyed a lucrative career AND gone through a US college. </p>
<p>Sadly enough, people fall for the "dreams" in masses.</p>
<p>There is a huge difference between a Div 1 athlete who enters the NFL, and a student who receives athletic scholarships at other schools. The NFL player more than likely intended to make sports his career. Your daughter is making it clear....she does NOT want to play baseball. </p>
<p>Look...my daughter is an excellent musician. AND she probably could have gotten music scholarships at any number of schools that she had no interest in attending. We encouraged her musicianship because she loved it AT THE TIME....not because we viewed it as a cash cow for college (and it could have been). </p>
<p>I do believe that the more I read this, the more I believe that there is a disappointment on the parent's part that this kid is giving up sports. It is a bittersweet time when kids do that sort of thing. BUT as parents, shouldn't we be there to help support the decisions of our kids and help them move forward...instead of looking backwards?</p>
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I love my daughter but she has got to come down to reality, you do not turn down free money!!!!!!!
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Yes you do. Especially if it's not free. She will have to work hard for that money, and apparently it is not the kind of work she wants to do.</p>
<p>OK, so she had it easier than her siblings who worked. Do you now feel cheated now because you were counting on her getting scholarships? Well, it were you, the parents, who set the rules, and she followed them. Now she wants to be just like her siblings, to work instead of playing. Her choice.</p>
<p>You are going to pay for college when the siblings go there, aren't you? Why not for her, just because she had other choices?</p>
<p>Also -- I would discount the advice of a professional football player on this. Of course he would say take the scholarship! The system worked for him! If your daughter was the softball equivalent of a future NFL player, she might well have gotten offers she liked better, and taken one.</p>
<p>And -- your daughter is not the only athlete to burn out on her sport as college approaches. That is so common, it's almost a cliche. She probably got lots of rewards for her ability when she was younger, but now the rewards aren't living up to her expectations -- which may be the chicken and may be the egg in this situation. Anyway, what she's going through is a normal part of the teen sports world, not something bizarre or unheard-of.</p>
<p>She changed her mind. She's a teenager, and what she's doing isn't nuts. What you seem to have been doing -- relying on her ability to get an athletic scholarship with no indication that it was actually happening, and no awareness that her attitude was changing -- that WAS nuts. Sorry.</p>
<p>Regarding the title to this thread...NO I do not think your daughter is losing her mind. I think she has had a very good reality check regarding her future as a baseball player. And she wants to pursue other options. To be honest...this is a very mature approach to me.</p>
<p>Owlice,
Don't question my ability to raise my kids. As a single man in his 20's I married a wonderful woman with 4 young children, I have provided for my family very well and have raised our children in a loving and caring home. They are all very good kids and I do go overboard with certain things, but I sometimes do that because their biological dad isn't around much and I try to make up for the void. Understand as well that I am just venting here in this forum a little bit, and that I do not speak to my children harshly, and have not set demands upon them, if I did she would be playing ball, end of story. Our oldest is 20, and upon graduating she informed us that she was not going to college. We begged her to reconsider and to at least try. She informed us that we would be wasting our money at that time and if she inrolled that she probably wouldn't go. We let her go on and do her thing, she was already working 3 jobs (while going to High School) because she wasn't involved in sports or other activities and just liked to work. Now at 20 she realizes that she has wasted 2 years away, and is going to have to go to school to get ahead in the workforce. I just don't want the 2nd to have regrets just because she is confused on what to do right now.</p>
<p>Thumper it is SOFTBALL not BASEBALL, sorry I had to get that in there.
To everyone that thinks this is a mature decision on her part, and that somehow we are going to offset costs by her going to work making maybe $7.50 an hour you are nuts. That money will not be going toward her education, if she moves out it will take every little bit for her to live!! A college student attending full time might be able to make $1000 a month, between rent, utilities, food and gas, there is nothing left! So for anyone to have the illusion that you can work your way through college anymore is insane. It just doesn't work that way anymore.
Listen, I am just asking for advice on how to bring her back down to reality. She hangs around with alot of kids who come from wealthy families (we are not one of them, we get by, we just aren't wealthy) and they all are getting new cars for graduation, and are going to 4 year schools (quite a few on athletic scholarships by the way), or are moving into apartments, and I know she just wants to be a part of it. I have told her I would support whatever decision she makes, I have never demanded that she do something she didn't want to do. I know how to raise my kids. I am just wandering if I am alone here? Or if other parents are dealing with the same issue. She knows who her Dad is and knows who will be there for her no matter what, so I have no concern about that. I just don't want to see her regret this decision, without really looking at whole picture.</p>
<p>I didn't question your ability to raise your kids. What I questioned was the apparently huge disparity in what you want and expect and what your daughter wants and expects, and your apparent shock at learning that this disparity exists. I have to wonder how this situation, this great disparity, came about. </p>
<p>Of course, I don't know, but I think you need to figure it out. Once you figure that out, you'll know better what to do.</p>
<p>Re: your older daughter, it seems to me she has learned quite a lot in her two years away from school. Good for her! She is likely to be a much better student now that she knows what she wants and how to achieve it than she would have been had she been an unwilling student.</p>
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now out of the blue has changed her mind.
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I'm not so sure it came "out of the blue." I think she may have been thinking about it for quite some time, but was afraid to mention it to you, since you may have been communicating your attitude to her (verbally and/or non). Besides, even if it were "out of the blue", she's a kid. That's what they do.</p>
<p>I agree that she cannot be "forced" to play softball, any more than a kid can be "forced" to get good grades.</p>
<p>If she wants to go to the local school, then that's not so bad. But, and here I do tend to agree with the OP, that doesn't mean that parents have to pay for her to live locally anywhere but home. There is a cost-benefit analysis here - just because Mom & Dad would be willing to pay X dollars for some schools and include board, doesn't mean that they have to pay the exact same amount for local school & an apartment if D2 can live at home for less.</p>
<p>And I think that's the discussion that needs to be had: "You don't want to play anymore? That's fine. You want to go to school locally? That's also fine, and we'll help with the tuition. But in our opinion, it's a total waste of money for you to live anywhere but here, and we do not believe in wasting money. If you live at home, we will continue to pay for car/phone/whatever. If you move out, you will be responsible for all your living expenses, including car/phone/whatever."</p>
<p>I think that's perfectly legitimate.</p>
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Listen, I am just asking for advice on how to bring her back down to reality.
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Bringing her back down to reality might mean "Listen, you may go to the local 4-year college, but you'll have to take loans and maybe commute from home". Not necessarily "You have to go to whatever junior college takes you and slave your way through it instead of learning".</p>
<p>If she thinks that you owe her to pay for a 4-year private college, AND her housing, AND her car... than yes, something is missing in her picture of the world. But from your description, I'm not so sure that this is the case. </p>
<p>I agree with owlice's assessment of your older DD's story. Good for her!</p>
<p>As a parent of a D1 student athlete, I have to disagree with some posters to an extent. At the time of my D's recruitment, she was the eldest of 4 siblings. They have benefitted from a comfortable middle class lifestyle. However, in our particular situation, our monies had been "paid forward" in the form of private school tuitions and significant investment in sports and EC's. Now mind you, my D had no visions of granduer of playing professionally, but realized that her athletic scholarship was vital in obtaining access and affordability of her undergrad degree. Their were 14 young ladies in her recruiting class, a very heralded one at that, but at the time of her senior banquet, only 4 remained. Many quit because they knew in the back of their minds, that they would be supported by their parents, hence enabled, and no need to honor their commitments and gain from the experience of perseverance. My D did not have that luxury, and as a result, has forged a resolve and an appreciation for her whole collegiate experience and has developed an attitude of can do that will serve her a lifetime. The hardships, challenges, sacrifices and the subsequent rewards made as a student athlete has made her a confident woman now, and my concerns about how she will carry herself in her adult life have been greatly diminished. In many respects, as a result of her experiences she is far ahead IMO, the typical college student.</p>
<p>I can empathize for the OP. His primary obligations financial and otherwise, are to his wife and those unalbe to provide for themselves. Fully or majority sponsored support for college by the OP is not obligatory for the child that has the means to contribute to their immediate future. Regardless of the things that may have or not been emphasized, it's time for D2 to grow up and it sounds like fast. While she may not have to play sports if she doesn't want to, she should fully be made aware that she needs to develop other viable options to maintain the lifestyle she has apparently grown accustomed to, and is looking forward to. The sooner the lesson is applied and learned, the sooner the weaning process begins. If that means loans, working, summer jobs, etc, D2 will either stand on her own or make excuses. All a part of growing up, people.</p>
<p>Yes owlice she really has learned alot in her 2 years out. But she did it the hard way. She was forced to grow up fast I am sad to say, but her wounds are healed and she is wiser for it. It was just hard watching her go through the things she did, but again, like I said earlier, she is (was) an adult and made her decision, and has had to pay for her choices she made. I just don't know if my heart can take another one, that is what has me so worried. D2 has always thought out things and has been self motivated, this year has just been a difficult year, she has been doing things she never used to do and I see some bad habits that could come from that (remember the older one put us through the ringer and is lucky to be where she is in life) and I just want to guide her in a safe direction. Maybe I am just living in a dream world, but it's nice to dream once in a while ;)</p>
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I just don't want the 2nd to have regrets just because she is confused on what to do right now.
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<p>Some regrets are not so bad. The first may have regrets, but she made her own decision, lived with her own decision, and learned from doing both. Imho, that's not so bad. It could in fact be downright good for many kids.</p>
<p>Are you sure that the second is confused? From your description, it sounds like she does in fact know what she wants. If what she wants isn't affordable, imho gently explain what is affordable (living at home or in the dorms locally?) and, also imho, allow her to make her own decisions.</p>
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She hangs around with alot of kids who come from wealthy families (we are not one of them, we get by, we just aren't wealthy) and they all are getting new cars for graduation, and are going to 4 year schools (quite a few on athletic scholarships by the way), or are moving into apartments, and I know she just wants to be a part of it.
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<p>Definitely can relate to that as my children attend(ed) an expensive private independent school for many years and participated in select soccer. My mantra to keep them level headed, not covetous and grounded, "be ye not deceived, ye are amongst the Jones' but are not the Jones'!" Works for me!</p>
<p>Holla, I agree with Chedva. If your D2 can commute from home and save additional money, that would be a good thing. AND it would enable her to go to school and not worry about money while doing so. Perhaps there is some way you can figure out a way for her to feel like she has some "space" as a high school graduate. It may be that she just wants to live somewhere else while going to college....and maybe there is some way to make living at home a little more "independent" than it was as a high school student. </p>
<p>I agree you should be there to guide her in a safe direction. Unfortunately (and you saw this with your first D who sounds like she has grown tremendously in the last couple of years) some kids learn best in the school of "hard knocks". None of us wants to see that happen with our kids, but some kids just need to experience this type of change on their own terms. </p>
<p>I think there is a way to be supportive and also let your daughter know that she can live at home and you will be able to respect her as a college student. Maybe if she hears that, the "living at home" part won't be so difficult for her.</p>
<p>Agreed....I would NOT pay rent for a place if there was a FREE place (home) for my kid to live. But I probably would try to contribute as much as I could to the tuition. I would also encourage my kid to explore multiple options, and perhaps consider transferring for the last two years.</p>