<p>Thanks Chedva and Madville, I think you both understand where I am right now. It is just hard to deal with her right now, her mind has changed so many times I am confused on what she wants to do. Like a few of you have said, what do you expect, she's a kid....</p>
<p>The OP merely wants to know how to approach his D and make her see the realities of life. Unfortunately, there are some kids who simply won't listen, and have to learn through making their own mistakes. I agree that the best route would be to take the athletic scholarship, but if she won't do that, there is nothing you can do. I would sit everyone down and tell them this is what you can afford, and they will each have to figure out on their own how to find the $ for the balance. This may be through work, or scholarships, or loans. But it will be their responsibility. I would figure out what the take-home pay for a $7.50/hour job would be less taxes, FICA, the cost of car insurance and payments (for under 21 and 25 year olds, respectively), and how much would be left for food and rent. Your D may think you are lying to get her do what she wants. She will learn. The school of hard knocks wakes many kids up. Unfortunately, it may wake them up after they lose other opportunities. We can't protect our kids from everything, even though we do know better. Approach this as a business proposition. She will either respond, or she won't. Can't older D talk to her? Now that she knows what she lost, maybe she can influence her more than you can. There are no easy answers to this situation. She may need to make her own mistakes in order to fully understand.</p>
<p>Living at home is an option, but we do have 2 younger kids still at home and the coming in late during the week and the other things aren't very attractive for them, that is why I am recommending the dorms. We can afford the dorms and tuition with her going to school locally and working part time for spending money and gas money, and am willing to do that. But she said to me today that if she couldn't move into a house or an apartment and go to school locally that she would just go off to one of the 2 universities that she was accepted in and live in the dorms there. Basically out of spite to cost us more money for tuition. She is just being frivilous with money that isn't her money, however she feels entitled to now for some reason. She never was like this before this year, I promise you, she was frugal and hung on to babysitting money like it was going to run away. I really do not understand her change, but it is there, and I am just trying to deal with it the best I can without getting any more gray hairs. My brothers and I must have been easy to raise, because my Dad didn't get gray until he was 65, and here I am in my 40's getting salty.</p>
<p>Holla...I'm a little confused. Didn't any of these universities require commitments or deposits by May 1st? I know not all schools have this deadline, but many do. And in some places, a housing deposit would have been required by now...or there wouldn't BE any dorm space. Even at your local college, that might be the case. That is worth checking.</p>
<p>Just a thought...if you are paying for the dorms...our kids (granted they were juniors...but...) wanted to live off campus their junior years. We told them the amount we were paying for their room and board costs and told them that off campus housing had to cost LESS than on campus housing...or we weren't paying (they would have to pay the difference). Both found housing off campus that was less expensive (by several thousand dollars per year...including food and utilities) than their dorms. Could you give your daughter a limited budget that does not exceed the cost of on campus housing? I guess if you are willing to pay for on campus local dorms, maybe off campus could be an option...if the cost is not more.</p>
<p>If she wants to move out and rent with friends, how is she going to rent? I have yet to see an apartment or house in a college area that does not ask for a parental cosigner. I would not cosign for a freshman to live off campus when she could live in the dorms, not that the dorms are not going to have most of the same opportunities as apartments, but there is a bit more supervision and a bit less liability for the parents.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>I have yet to see an apartment or house in a college area that does not ask for a parental cosigner.>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Go to California. DD (and all of her friends...and friends of others in the same area) signed the leases themselves...and pay the first/last months rent. No parent signature. </p>
<p>Yep...we were shocked too...in Boston that NEVER would have happened with an undergrad. Geez...we not only had to sign but we had to have everything notarized.</p>
<p>But in some places it happens...no parent signs the lease. Money talks.</p>
<p>Thumper,
Yes we talked to the U's and both still have housing available (they are both commuter schools for the most part), these are smaller U's and cost is less. Apartments alone are at least around $500-$600 a month not including electric and water, with a one year lease where we are, and I am not willing to co-sign for kind of commitment. The local dorm here is $500 a semester, do the math.</p>
<p>thumper- funny my two Ds went to UCs and there were co-signers or proof of kids income/scholarships required</p>
<p>Another HS athlete parent here (she's at a boarding school).</p>
<p>When we got into the boarding school mode, goaliegirl knew that we needed substantial FA for it to work. She knew we had a budget in our mind and that if it didn't work out financially, she was staying at home. It has so far (knock on wood), so she is there.</p>
<p>She also understands that come college time, we still have a fixed budget. If she gets an athletic scholarship at a D1 school (90% plus of scholarships in her sport are partial with the typical in her sport being the most generous at 75%) and that plus our budget works then great - she goes there. </p>
<p>If she gets merit/need money to make a D3 school work, then great - she goes there.</p>
<p>If none of the hockey situations work out or decides to hang up the skates, the local flagship (no hockey available) works just fine and we will support her there as well. </p>
<p>Or if she finds another non-hockey school and the merit/need based aid plus plus our budget plus any loans/jobs she obtains to get to that number - great, she goes.</p>
<p>Point here is that we have a budget for what we can afford for her undergraduate education. What she chooses to do with it is up to her. While we will discuss the pros/cons of her choices with her to make sure she is cognizant of the ramifications of the school/financial situations she chooses, ultimately she has to be happy with what she does with her education.</p>
<p>She may very well make a mistake, but like the OP's older daughter, it will be her mistake and she will feel more responsible for fixing that mistake than for a mistaken choice WE make for her.</p>
<p>Goaliegirl realizes that as much as she enjoys her sport, it is also a "job" that has allowed her to "earn" experiences (boarding school) that she might not have otherwise been able to afford (no boarding school would give her the aid she is getting if she couldn't stop a puck - it is very generous). How she chooses to earn her way going forward is up to her. If one day, she hangs up the skates and decides that a conventional job and loans are preferable ways of earning that different experience for college, as long as she does the math and it calculates, I am happy for her.</p>
<p>I think the OP's D needs to have the arithmatic and the ramifications of her choices spelled out for her in dollars and cents. OP does not owe his children more than he can afford, but should not make his budget based upon what EC the children take up. If his D doesn't want to earn $X,000 per year swinging a bat, then she needs to find a way to earn/borrow $X,000 per year in that time she doesn't spend swinging a bat and understand that those loans are hers to payoff at $Y per month for Z years. She may also decide that swinging a bat might be an easier way to make ends meet too when the choices are spelled out clearly.</p>
<p>And as far as cars for college kids go, if the expenses (depreciation, insurance, etc.) fit within that college budget that is fine too, but that may require living at home instead of the dorm or (if she isn't playing her sport) taking a job or more loans to pay for that extra.</p>
<p>I know that when I went to college, I was given a choice - a car or living away from home. I was a pedestrian living away at school and very satisfied with my choice.</p>
<p>
[quote]
she said to me today that if she couldn't move into a house or an apartment and go to school locally that she would just go off to one of the 2 universities that she was accepted in and live in the dorms there. Basically out of spite to cost us more money for tuition.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You don't have to send her to any college if you're not comfortable with her reasons for choosing that college. If you are willing to finance</p>
<ol>
<li>playing softball in college, or</li>
<li>local college dorm, or</li>
<li>commuting to local college,</li>
</ol>
<p>then those are her choices. Plus:</p>
<ol>
<li> she always has the option of becoming self-supporting.</li>
</ol>
<p>Hey, my son wanted to move off campus in his second year and we were not very supportive (his first year dorm was great, offered guaranteed housing and was CHEAPER). So we told him we would pay what the dorm costs and no more...he would have to make up the rest. He did. And now he can't sublet the place for the summer so that cost is on him too A good lesson I think. Lots of money out the door but it's HIS money.<br>
So that's what I would do if I was the OP. She can figure it out and work if she really wants that apt.</p>
<p>Holla, I totally see your point. It's the benefit of experience, which your D doesn't have. I would give her a bottom line $$ amount that you are going to contribute to her education, including room and board. Let her decide how to make up the difference, and remember we all learn from the school of hard knocks...you did and so did I....and so will she. Let her go.</p>
<p>Thumper- we manage lots of property in Ca. We would not rent to a college age student without a co-signer. In the case of multiple roommates each student has to have a co-signer. Most of those post college also tend to need co-signers.</p>
<p>My dd moved into an apt 2nd year and it was much cheaper than the dorm. What school provides dorms that only cost $500/semester? That can't be in the northeast. Room and Board is typically $9000-$10,000. </p>
<p>Your dd is starting in the fall and the coach is still waiting for a commitment? Usually coaches want an answer right away or they want to use the scholarship money for another recruit. BTW, I thought only Div 1 schools can give athletic scholarships. Is she getting an attractive Financial Aid package, perhaps?</p>
<p>S1 has lived off campus for past two years. His apt. required parent co-signer. He and his roommates decided they wanted a house for senior yr. The first one they found thru a realty co. The co. required co-signer with lots of personal fianacial info. that H and I were not comfortable handing over to some random college town realtor. We told the boys to keep looking. They found another house offered for rent by owner in their school's student newspaper that required no co-signer. They move in this weekend.</p>
<p>S2 has played football since age 11. He started getting letters of interest from small colleges early last Fall. He stated early on that he was not interested in atttending any of those schools nor was he interested in continuing football in college. He knows others who are doing it now who say it is ridiculously hard and you have to want it really bad to make it through. We encouraged him to give it some thought but left the choice up to him. He will be attending a state u. in Aug. as a reg. freshman, no football.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is that those who were stars in h.s. are not always going to play in college. Our neice was a standout volleyball player in h.s. She went to a D1 school and rode the bench for three years..putting in all that time and effort for the sport (missing lots of classes for road trip games) and rarely got to play...extremely frustrating for her (and my bro.). It certainly didn't turn out to be the great "free ride" they imagined. Her scholarship was for tuition only at a state u.</p>
<p>$500 a semester for the dorm? I've never heard of a price so low...anywhere. Is there a board requirement (dining hall)? With costs THAT low, I would advocate for the dorm...but how do they keep those costs so low (curious where this is??)? Most room/board fees I've seen (across the country) are in the $3000-$5000 a semester range...or more.</p>
<p>This sounds just like my neighbor's story. Two daughters who played softball, both got scholarships to same school. Older one decided after first semester she wanted to drop out and has drifted since, including a stint back home with her boyfriend (I don't think so). The younger one just graduated this month and is playing in the NCAA tourney this weekend. She's considering grad school and picked up a second sport. Total success story.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what you can do now. Sounds like more of this should have been discussed years in advance, but that's water under the bridge. I would have a heart-to-heart and let her know what your expectations had been and how you're sorry if that wasn't expressed clearly enough but here's the situation as it stands now: And then explain your position. I think it's unreasonable to expect her to be an indentured servant to the school if her heart isn't in it. But if she gets a clear idea of her options maybe she'll decided that her heart could be in it again!</p>
<p>
[quote]
she would just go off to one of the 2 universities
[/quote]
Not if you won't finance it, she won't (unless of course she figures out a way to finance it herself). She doesn't get to spend more of your money than you want to spend. And you don't have to spend the same amount regardless of her choices. If you feel that something is not worth the money, you don't have to buy it for her (i.e., the apartment).</p>
<p>She has choices:
1) Softball scholarship
2) No scholarship, local college, live at home
3) No scholarship, get a job and move out</p>
<p>Note that "local college, get an apartment" is not on the list.</p>
<p>My d's boyfriend plays Div 1 hockey. Has started/played in every game and does get his tuition paid (I believe). But it is a huge commitment. These kids play/train all year long. They must schedule classes around their sport. Many athletes take some of their classes "online" because of the flexibility afforded. But it takes a dedicated student to keep up with their studies. Student athletes don't get to go home for most school breaks. No trip home for Thanksgiving, maybe a quick few days over Christmas break. They tend to hang out with other athletes who they usually live with as well... I will say that the college athletes I know LOVE what they're doing and would complain if a day went by when they didn't play/train. They would do it on their own, even if not required. They dream of playing when college ends. I think that's why it works. The drive is internal and the lucky few, have the athletic ability to match their desire.</p>
<p>If your daughter doesn't want to play (or eat, sleep and breathe her sport), then she will wind up miserable. College should be a time to explore, to discover one's passions and interests, and to open doors to the future. </p>
<p>If your d goes to one of these softball schools and gets injured, will she lose her scholarship? Will you pay for her to continue at this school? This happens to many athletes which is why they say students should choose a school they'd be happy attending, even if not playing a sport.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The OP merely wants to know how to approach his D and make her see the realities of life.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The realities of life? He's the one using the example of his NFL-playing friend as though the same sort of thing were a realistic dream for a junior college athlete in a sport that's not high-paying even at the top level anyway.</p>
<p>And I have to say, if my parents had bought the luxuries of a car and a phone for myself and all of my siblings when I was a kid, I too would have been confused about a claim that they couldn't afford college, which I personally would consider less of a "luxury" item than cars and phones.</p>
<p>However, OP, it is good that you are explaining <em>now</em> what you will and won't pay for (it always riles me up when parents lead their kids to believe that they will pay their way, and then yank the money for something that they never told the kids would be yank-worthy).</p>
<p>Like Chedva says, the D has certain options - options where you pay, options where she works, options where she takes out loans, options that mix these strategies. Sit down with her and let her know what the options are. If she doesn't want the options that involve playing softball, I don't see anything wrong with that, as she clearly has others to choose from.</p>