I’m in a position where even if I applied for financial aid, I probably wouldn’t qualify for anything. Because of that, my parents say that I should say that I’m not applying for financial aid on the commonapp, because it might help my chances even at need blind schools, while I think that I should apply anyway just to see if I get anything.
Basically my question is how need blind are need. blind schools - would it actually help my chances if I didn’t apply for financial aid?
Need blind schools are need blind. That’s an optional thing, so if they want to consider need, they are up front about it.
Need aware schools often don’t consider need until they are toward the end of the acceptances (except for internationals).
Many many schools are need blind but don’t meet full need, so they accept you but you may not get more FA just because you really do need it.
I wouldn’t use the word “often”. Different need-aware schools have different practices. Some do what you suggested. More use the information in a way that negatively impact applicants with high need. Even more use enrollment services/algorithms to “optimize” distribution of financial aids to achieve their institutional financial target, often with detrimental effect on FA applicants, especially high-need applicants.
Not needing FA is a hook. Even need blind schools maintain same % of students they give aids too (I don’t think AOs are that good at maintaining that average without some help). If you are not eligible for aids, you are not going to get any (except for merit). There is no such thing as “you never know.” Some posters here will say there are schools that won’t give you merit if you don’t apply for FA. Well, then it is not truly need based. Some may also say if you do not apply for FA now then you won’t be eligible for any if you should need it later, like lost of job, death, health issues. I am pretty sure if there is unexpected event that you may need FA later you can apply for it then. Just because you apply for FA now it doesn’t mean they will hold some money for you just in case.
If I were your parent I wouldn’t disclose any of my financial information if I am not going to get anything back in return. Of course if you are on borderline and FA is important to you then you should apply to see what happens. My kids’ college counselor said “Do not apply for FA unless you absolutely have to.” This is especially the case during the wait list cycle.
“Some posters” say this because it’s true. In cases like this, the requirement isn’t to apply for institutional need-based aid; the requirement is to complete FAFSA to make sure that government entitlement aid isn’t being left on the table. This doesn’t mean that the aid from the school isn’t truly merit based.
Again, “some” say this because it is in fact the policy of certain schools regarding institutional aid. For example, Bryn Mawr notes the following FA policy on the college’s website:
*You must apply for aid from the College as an incoming student to be considered for institutional grant assistance during any of your four years at the College. You may apply and will be considered for Federal aid, including the Federal Direct Loan Program, every year whether or not you applied for institutional aid as a first-year student.
To be considered for aid from the College as a first-year student your response to the Financial Aid Intent question on the Common Application or the Coalition Application must be “Yes.”*
https://www.brynmawr.edu/financial-aid/undergraduate-students/undergraduate-policies
For some need-aware schools, this advice from the college counselor may have merit, but for many schools, this strategy is just plain stupid (and potentially expensive).
You can use some common sense or believe everything you read on the school’s website.
I will tell you what we learned from admissions counselors at UVA a few years ago.
They showed us what the commonapp looks like when it is downloaded by admissions. The FA portion of the commonapp is totally blacked out…100%. Admissions people can’t see it. They have no idea whether or not you applied for FA.
That portion is only able to be viewed by those in the FA dept.
We don’t know if OP ran the net price calculators. Or what colleges.
I do know that, at the college I know best, not applying for FA is no hook. The FA box doesn’t even appear on downloaded reader files.
Sure, you see parents’ jobs. But that’s not definitive a kid is full pay.
As for why a large number of matriculants turn out to be wealthier, it’s a matter of the pool being stuffed with them and many lower SES admits choosing a different university, for lots of good reasons.
I say, you pick the targets where you match best. Not just what you want, but match to what they look for. The right applicants have a better shot, NA or NB.
With the example cited (Bryn Mawr), this is not the either-or choice that you make it out to be. For a reputable school with a long history, common sense (and practical experience) says that plain language on the school’s website can be trusted, and should be relied upon. Proceed differently at your own peril.
I agree with @oldfort. Many of the private need blind schools have more than 50% full pay students. Of course they want to encourage more students to apply, and I do believe strong students can get substantial aid, but the overall numbers make me skeptical.
OP: if your parents can afford to pay full price to where you want to go, don’t apply for FA. But don’t consider it a hook, as it may not sway your chances much if your profile doesn’t fit with admission profile.
I have seen a case, at a private need-blind school, where with a combination of parent and student income and assets the family could afford to be full pay for all four years. The student applied for institutional need-based aid anyway, and over four years was awarded more than $70k in institutional aid.
Sure, this is a small sample size of one, but hopefully the cost-benefit analysis is clearly compelling for anyone who prefers not to leave $70k+ on the table.
For above example, the student obviously was eligible for need based FA based on their family income/assets. Otherwise the college would not have granted any aid. There is a specific formula used for need based aid.
However the OPs family do not qualify for FA but he wants to see if they can get anything. His family needs to run the college NPC and confirm.
Again, don’t assume 50% full pay means they a) know in advance or b) treat it like a hook.
Adcoms don’t guess.
OP didn’t say that the family does not qualify for FA; the words used were “probably wouldn’t qualify for anything.” The NPC outputs what can best be described as an educated guess; to be absolutely certain the FA application process must be completed. As described in other posts above, at a need blind school an indication on the common app that the student will be appying for financial aid is not a factor in the admissions process.
Yes, it is always possible that a school is not being honest when it says it is need blind for admissions. I believe GWU got caught lying about this. One can be suspicious about every and anything stipulated. One should weigh the ramifications of doing that.
Most schools are need blind in admissions and do not meet full need. Simple as that. They accept those they want and give what funds that can towards need. Schools gap a lot.
There are a small group of schools that are not need blind in admissions and meet full need as they define it. There are also a small number of schools that are need aware but meet full need as they define it. Those schools have all kinds of stipulations and you do have to read through them to have all of the information to make the best decision for you.
I doubt many people would think HPY are need aware. Schools like F&M, Gettysburg , Dickinson are need aware, and outright say so. Need aware schools usually make it clear that if you do not apply for financial aid as a freshman, you are not eligible for school funds in aid in future years. That is to discourage those who do not apply for aid for admissions, tough it out that first year, and then apply for aid in future years.
I find it interesting and curious that schools like Barnard and Brynn Mawr , that say they are need blind in admissions, still require students to apply for financial aid as freshmen if they are to have access to school funds for need in future years. I wonder if there are any exceptions to this stipulation if a student’s Family undergoes a catastrophic event that plunged them financially into needing aid.
If in this situation, I’d probably split the apps, several with and several without fin aid apps for those schools in that gray zone, which are very few. It would be interesting to see the results. Always have affordable schools on the list too, so that a serious decision about affordability can be made when May 1 arrives
Need-blind privates are generally well-endowed and highly selective (most well-regarded publics are also need-blind as a matter of principal and necessity). For these schools, there’s no reason not to apply for FA (for few that aren’t honest about this, you probably don’t want to attend anywhere; they may not be honest about other things too), even if you think your chance is remote. Some less well-endowed need-blind privates, like most of their public counterparts, don’t promise to meet your need, even from their perspectives.
However, for need-aware schools, they’re need-aware for a reason. They all have more limited budget. However they meet budget goal depends on the school, and you shouldn’t assume anything.
I’d like to track this down. Where is the data found?
If you complete the financial aid forms, and your family contribution is 100% of the costs, the college will know they don’t need to offer you aid. So even if need award, they know you don’t have need!
The bigger question is…do you want to complete these forms? If you have run net price calculators, and the net cost is the cost of attendance…OR your family fully intends to pay the full cost of attendance without any aid…then you don’t need to complete these forms…at all.
In general, we on CC do agree a very high need applicant to a NA school can be at unique risk. It depends on the applicant, the full pool and college policies, the actual processes they use. And it hinges on just how compelling this candidate is. If they think he’s perfect, they’ll take him/her over other, more borderline kids. If he is borderline, yes, that high need ‘could’ sink him.
“I doubt many people would think HPY are need aware.” Oh, plenty of folks insist, insist, that they are manipulating. It’s an unfortunate by product of just looking at results about the enrolled class, not the process itself.
When a school is NB, they aren’t using aid optimizers in admissions. They don’t see the FA details. They don’t communicate with Fin Aid folks before decisions.
When a school is Need Aware, sure they do- at some point. Depending on policies. Some only look toward the end of building the class.
Now, you can postulate that the FA folks massage, give less aid to discourage needy kids from enrolling. BUT, the Meet Full Need colleges are beholden to apply the same formula to all and only make exceptions by category/treat all in a category the same. Eg, apply the same formula exceptions to any/all kids whose parents’ income is unstable.
Some forget there is oversight from the national orgs, rules to follow.
You do NOT need to fill out the FA form to get merit from Bryn Mawr. First hand experience, at least from a few years ago. Maybe it’s the case for need-based aid, but I think that wording is unclear bc you don’t for ALL aid (or maybe they call it “scholarship.” I don’t remember.)