<p>If you ask any out of state kid here, they seem to think that out of state people are significantly smarter than the "dumb" instate kids simply because the selection process is more competitive. But from what i've seen just the opposite seems to be true. Is it really that much harder to get in out of state?</p>
<p>My s and his friend were both waitlisted at UW-Madison from Cal. Both had 31 act/ 1980 sat/8 ap’s/3.9 gpa/ tuff h.s. academically, both eagle scouts. I know a few Wisconsin kids who got in with far less. But the school has to take 75% in state. Do you think the other 48 states competing for 1300 spots are more competitive then the wics/minn. kids competing for 4,000 spots? Do the math.</p>
<p>There is an article somewhere on the Michigan Daily that puts this whole notion to bed. I am trying to remember the exact numbers in terms of the difference – pretty minute. So, the way it goes is that the IS vs OOS stats (historically - this was a few years ago) of matriculating students (note emphasis on matriculating) the in-state were actually a fraction of a point higher than OOS; but the OOS kids had a fraction of a point higher GPA after being at UMich for a year, suggesting the rigor was about on par for each. (And I mean a .01 type differential, not talking 3.7 vs 3.8 or any gap that wide.)</p>
<p>So the rest is just pure conjecture.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure it is. I’m 100% positive that it’s harder to get in OOS at UNC, UCB, UCLA, and UVA, so I would imagine it would be the same way at UMich. They do have a gentleman’s agreement with the state that they will cap OOS enrollment at 1/3 of the student body (I forget where I read this). So they have less spaces available for out-of-staters.</p>
<p>There’s more kids fighting for less spots, of course its harder to get into</p>
<p>I believe last year it was a bit more than a third.</p>
<p>All you have to do is take a look at the decisions thread to see that it is harder OOS. It’s not really a secret. They say everyone is looked at the same but they kind of have to. Just like MLD said, more kids for fewer spots.</p>
<p>There’s definitely a gap in the admission standards, but I wouldn’t say that it is significantly harder to get in. At my OOS high school, over 30 kids get accepted, out of a class of around 500.</p>
<p>Hey guys, you really don’t have all the variables to make this calculation.
First off, of the 35,000 (estimate only) who apply to UMich, you need to know how many OOS and how many International and how many InState applicants there are. Then use the known numbers matriculating. At least that way you could come up with a reliable selectivity percentage per applicant category (IS/OOS/Intl). And sure, I would hazard a guess that the selectivity index is higher for OOS, and much higher for Intl than IS. But I would also argue that IS are self-selecting, meaning only approximately the top 10% of a given class will be encouraged to even apply to UMich. </p>
<p>What you can’t really do is “make that mean anything.” Eg. I know sals and vals from good schools in state that for any number of reasons did not get in. Eg. 35 ACT and 3.95 GPA unweighted from a magnet school.
The “evidence” on cc is skewed and cannot be taken to be an adequate sampling to accurately predict the whole. Plus its entirely anecdotal to boot.</p>
<p>Last but not least, none of the above accounts for the wide variance of grades and grade inflation from state to state, school to school (and country to country.) A 4.0 in one setting simply does not equal a 4.0 in another setting. The best metric to solve the “who’s smarter” (a pointless notion unless one is assuaging one’s disappointment anyway) conundrum is to look at HOW the students perform comparatively once at UMich.</p>
<p>And like I said earlier, we’re talking about a 3.26 vs. a 3.27 if I recall correctly. Of course, an average does not represent the extremities on either end. So all that means is that UMich admits a range of performers who on AVERAGE perform at approximately the same level ;)</p>
<p>Just sayin.</p>
<p>No way. I swear everyone in my school who applied got in…even from the wait-list. It is much much easier to get in in-state.</p>
<p>@kmcmom13</p>
<p>No one said OOS kids do better at Michigan than IS, we are just saying it’s harder to get in to if you are OOS. This can be proven just by simple math.</p>
<p>but… on that note…</p>
<p>Also, on the GPA study thing. First of all, the GPA coming in really doesn’t matter at all. HSs have a pretty different range of GPAs and how hard the classes are that you take can make a difference. So that first part of the study really doesn’t matter.</p>
<p>For the second I would say this, where do most OOS students apply to at Michigan? I am guessing most OOS and IS students go into the CoE because it’s very prestigious and worth the OOS fees. I mean, let’s face it, most of the LSA degrees you can get anywhere and it won’t make a difference, so you might as well apply to your own state’s school.</p>
<p>So, if we assume that more OOS kids go into CoE than IS kids we can look at the fact that the average GPA of a CoE student is about 2.9. Different departments in Michigan have different average GPAs. Some inflate grades, some don’t. Some are easier and some are hard. Either way this makes it so the average OOS GPA would be assumed to be lower, becase the college most of the OOS students are in has a lower average GPA. Therefore, the only way to truly compare OOS to IS students at the university is to go department by department and the stats provided by this study are not accurate. In fact, it shows the difference in GPA is actually more than .01.</p>
<p>I’m not saying, I’m just saying. That study doesn’t mean squat and can’t really be used for either side.</p>
<p>I’m going to make a comparison here, and everyone who wants to can say whatever they want about it, but I’m sticking to it and it pretty much sums up everything I have to say. Far too much anecdotal evidence screams this at me with every new person I meet for there to be any other explanation I can see. </p>
<p>For admissions:</p>
<p>Full-pay out-of-state or international is FAR easier than full-pay instate is easier than aid-needed instate is easier than aid-needed out-of-state.</p>
<p>To figure out whether IS or OOS is harder to get in you also need to factor in the yield. The ratio of IS students enrolled to IS applicants is greater than OOS enrolled to OOS appplicants but IS has a higher yield than OOS so they need to admit more OOS to get the number they need. The chance of being accepted is closer than most people think. Use of the common application will affect OOS more than IS. OOS applications will go up but OOS yield may become lower.</p>
<p>The quality of the students does not vary much by residency or nationally. But percentage accepted does vary. Michigan residents are accepted at a higher rate.</p>
<p>Yeah, let’s keep are stereotypes about academics on other things…</p>
<p>like dumb girls in engineering</p>
<p>or stuck up kids from private high schools</p>
<p>I would expect that OOS students might have a better chance of being excepted into UM than an IS student (provided the respective students have similar academic qualifications) based solely on economic factors. I don’t know what the economic state of Michigan is in right now but I expect it is like anywhere else in the US – in the dumps. Most states are cutting back support to higher education and/or raising both IS and OOS tuition to make ends meet. Since OOS students pay 2-3 times higher tuition fees than IS students, UM gets a bigger bang for their buck by admitting more OOS students. My kid (OOS) was accepted into the UM CoE and the added costs ($200,00 vs $100,000) at UM vs our IS school (ranked very good itself in Engineering by US News) to me it is well worth the added costs.</p>
<p>Peter, Michigan obviously loves OOS students. However, the number of OOS applicants far outweigh the number of IS applicants. Last time I checked, Michigan received more than twice as many OOS applicants than IS applicants. Of course, the yield rate for admitted OOS students is also lower, but even when you factor that in, the percentage of OOS applicants admitted into Michigan is lower than that of IS applicants.</p>
<p>Yeah Peter, it doesn’t work like that.</p>
<p>Number of OOS Applicants = 2X
NUmber of IS Applicant = X</p>
<p>Number of OOS Accepted = Y
Number of IS Accepted = 2Y</p>
<p>OOS Ratio = (Y/2X)
IS Ratio = (2Y/X)</p>
<p>OSS to IS Ratio of Acceptance = (1/4)</p>
<p>You have 4 times the shot of getting in if you are IS as compared to OOS.</p>
<p>That might be wrong, haha</p>
<p>
True … number of OOS applicants = 1.6X</p>
<p>
Not true…because OOS yield is less than in-state yield. True if you change “accepted” to “enrolled”.</p>
<p>Yes! There it is. I knew I ****ed up some where I just didn’t know where</p>