Is Penn worth it ?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>I was accepted into Wharton and its honors program. The problem is (though there might have been a mistake) I would have to pay 30k to attend. Also I plan on using business as a catalyst to what I really want to do-social impact- and, from what I have read, it seems as though Penn produces a lot of finance majors and bankers who are fully immersed in the world of business. On the other hand, I was accepted into the University of Southern California's b school, Marshall, and would only have to pay <3K a year. Is Penn's higher quality of education and prestige worth the huge amount I would have to pay, especially since my interests aren't of the typical Wharton student?</p>

<p>Please offer any advice or opinions you might have !</p>

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<p>There’s actually a lot of social impact at Penn–there’s actually a new concentration on it, I think. While it’s true a lot of people go into finance, a lot of people do other things–it just so happens finance and consulting are the most obvious because the recruiters come to campus during a set period. I’m in Wharton and for a few months I thought about banking and then I realized I don’t and never wanted to do it, and I don’t plan on it. There are a ton of resources for social impact…besides an actual club with the name, there are many other things you can do. For example, my friend (in Wharton) just founded ‘the financial literacy project’ this year, which goes into poor schools and teaches kids financial literacy, etc.</p>

<p>Can your family afford to pay 30k a year? Do you want to be in Pennsylvania or in California? (Where are you from originally?) Find out if Penn is willing to give you more aid (or if there was a mistake, or whatever). While I definitely recommend Penn over USC (though I’m sure the weather is better there), don’t put yourself in debt because of it (especially since you’re not planning on going into finance, which pays off the loans pretty quickly).</p>

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<p>I did look at Wharton’s website and saw that they offer plenty of academic and extracurricular resources, but, like you said, the recruiters for finance and consulting come at a set time. How is the recruiting for social impact, and, outside of Penn and Philly, are there lots of opportunities?</p>

<p>Also, I plan to dual degree (joint at USC) in international studies and am hoping to work in Japan or Central America. Since I’m not in the huntsman program, how hard would it be to get certain internships or study abroad options? Is it extremely competitive?</p>

<p>My family cannot pay 30k but like Penn well enough to go in debt. They believe that Penn will pay for itself. I previously lived in California and love it there, but I live on the east coast now and like it nearly as well.</p>

<p>I guess I’m most concerned about your last comment (not the comment itself, but what you said). Since I’m not going into finance or another popular major, I worry that I won’t have the same degree of opportunities as them (therefore, drowning in a sea of debt).</p>

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<p>First I want to address your last comment–it’s not that you won’t have the ‘same degree of opportunities’ as those going in finance; rather, you won’t be paid as much at the beginning. Finance jobs (by which I mean banking and trading) tend to pay ridiculously high amounts for starting salaries, but that’s not why you should take a job, obviously. As long as you get a decent gpa, you should really be able to do anything you want. You might have to search beyond OCR (on campus recruiting), but there are tons of opportunities out there. I’m not sure what the recruiting is like for social impact because that’s not what I’m interested in (and I didn’t do any recruiting this year because I was supposed to be abroad this summer–I’ll get to that in a second), but just because people don’t come to campus (though they may) doesn’t mean you can’t get a job in that field. Tons of people go beyond OCR. And I’d say most opportunities are outside of Penn and Philly–you can find things anywhere, including abroad. It just takes a little bit of online searching and such.</p>

<p>On the abroad front, I’m probably the perfect person to ask, actually. I’m not in Huntsman, but I’ve had Huntsman kids in my Japanese classes my entire time at Penn (and I’m actually going to be an RA for the Huntsman floor next year…), and I was actually supposed to study abroad this spring/summer (semester starts early April and goes through July) in Japan. I was actually in Japan for a month a half and just got back 10 days ago. There are several study abroad options in Japan, and I’m sure there are plenty in Central America as well (though I know nothing about Central America–you can go to Cuba, though!) As long as you have the qualifying gpa (aka 3.0, not hard to do), I’m pretty sure you’re almost guaranteed to be able to study abroad in Japan, just because there aren’t that many people who study Japanese and want to go abroad. As far as internships go, I don’t think Huntsman kids have any actual advantage, unless they have a fluency in the language, and that would be irrelevant to the Huntsman name. I’m not sure how many internships in Japan there actually are besides banking and consulting (consulting seems to require native fluency, but maybe not) and maybe the State Department, though that’s actually something I’m going to be looking into this next year (since I didn’t go abroad this year, I really want to intern in Japan next summer). The reason for that is because Japan doesn’t have a culture of internships like we do. It’s not a problem that originates from what school you choose.
There’s a career forum in Boston that the Japan Student Association goes to every fall, where you can interview for internships in Japan (and jobs for when you’re a senior). I don’t know anything about Central America, though.</p>

<p>If you’re planning on dual degreeing at Penn, it wouldn’t actually be international studies–that’s just a major they created specifically for the Huntsman Program (and is really just ‘area studies’)–if you wanted to dual degree, you’d either have to choose International Relations (which is a really great program, and I would have done a dual if I knew about IR freshman year and had planned for it) or say, the Japanese major. I’m personally not doing a dual degree for a few reasons…one is that it really limits the classes you can take (you have to do all the College requirements, some of which are kind of silly and can only be filled with intro courses you might not want to take and don’t need). For example, I took an English class last semester that wouldn’t actually count towards any requirements in the College degree, because it was an upper level/I’m not an English major. It’s also hard to do a dual degree and study abroad, but if you do Wharton and IR or Japanese and go to Hitotsubashi for a semester (where I was supposed to go), that probably wouldn’t be too much of a problem.</p>

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<p>This is a somewhat related question. I was accepted to the College of Arts and Sciences, and I plan to major in International Relations. My main goal is to work for a law firm based in Thailand, which most likely means I’ll go to law school. The thing is, I really want to spend a full year studying in Thailand, to pick up as much of the language as possible and to explore other job opportunities and to figure out what living full time there would be like. I spent my junior year of high school there, and this year in college would help me figure out if moving there for good is something I really want to do. Unfortunately, it seems the Penn study abroad program for Thailand is only for 1 term, not a full year. On top of that, it is at Khon Kaen university, far from the international hub of Bangkok, where I would conceivably be scoping out job opportunities. How hard would it be for me to petition to get another program approved for me to spend a year at one of the international schools in BKK, like Mahidol or Thammasat in an International Relations or International Business program? Is that something Penn might consider given my goals? Thanks</p>

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<p>I just looked at the program on Penn’s study abroad site, and I’m pretty sure you can do it for a full year.</p>

<p>I have no idea how hard it would be to get your petition approved. I recommended emailing or calling someone from Penn Abroad (you can also check on the full year thing). It’s probably difficult, though.</p>

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<p>That all makes alot of sense. </p>

<p>You mentioned that obtaining a dual degree might not be the best idea because of the fluff classes. If that’s the case, what kind of major/minor/degree combination would you recommend if my interest are in international relations and business? I do worry that trying to get a dual degree will get in the way of extracurriculars, studying abroad, a social life, and so forth. How can I avoid being bogged down by academics, or is that inevitable (supposing I’m not a super genius).</p>

<p>But, say I did pursue dual degree, I know you have to apply with the transfers in order to do so. How hard is it to pass this admissions process? </p>

<p>Its also interesting that you still plan to study abroad in Japan so soon after the earthquake and tsunami. I assume you have some inside knowledge on how that’s affecting the business world in Japan (and, well, the entire world). Can you give me some insight on that?</p>

<p>Lastly, if the huntsman kids don’t have a leg up in internships and recruitment, what are the advantages of being in the program?</p>

<p>Btw,Thank you SO much for all your time and advice. You are making my life so much easier (and enabling me to keep a slight peace of mind).</p>

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<p>That’s kind of funny, actually. Jon Huntsman Sr., the namesake of the strong Huntsman program at Penn, went to USC Marshall.</p>

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<p>If you really are interested in business, definitely stick with Wharton (look at the required classes. You should have access to that from somewhere on the website). Minors aren’t that hard to do, especially if you plan them in advance, and many minor classes can end up filling requirements. I would recommend maybe an International Relations minor, or a minor in the language of your choice (Japanese or…Spanish?)…you can probably do both if you plan it well. Also, if you have AP credits, that will also help (I didn’t because my school didn’t really believe in APs, which was nice, but…)</p>

<p>Tons of people do dual degrees and have great social lives and are very involved on campus. It’s really just a time management and planning thing. Also, since you’re already in Wharton, if you want to dual with the college, you only need to maintain a 3.4, which isn’t that hard if you actually study a little (if you want to transfer to the college, you only need a 3.0). There’s not much of an actual application process.</p>

<p>So I’m not actually going to Japan anymore–I was in Japan, and I want to go back, but I’m not allowed to for the semester, unfortunately. I really doubt that I have any inside knowledge, except that it’s really hurting their tourism…I was working at a ski resort in Nagano when the quake happened, and besides some damage to the mountain that caused some closure, tons of people canceled either because they were afraid of another earthquake or because they couldn’t get enough gas to drive round trip. Also, outside of where there’s actual tons of damage (northeast Japan, ***ushima), at least two weeks ago, people were pretty unconcerned with the radiation and all that. I wasn’t in the Tokyo area, so I can’t say anything about it, but I’m sure the NYTimes et al has covered that pretty well. But I mean, when I was Osaka about a week and a half after the first quake, I almost forgot everything was in chaos because things were going on so normally there (Osaka is maybe 400 miles South of Tokyo? So pretty far from everything).</p>

<p>Since I’m not actually in Huntsman it is really hard for me to say what the advantages are. I’m sure the name on the resume does help, and beyond the normal Penn network, they have the Huntsman network…I think they may have access to some exclusive speakers and events. They have their own program building (lounge, computers/printing, etc.) with their own advisor, as well as travel grants for summer language study (I don’t know how hard it is to get). Their requirements are also a little easier to fill than if one does a regular dual degree. For example, Wharton’s business breadth requirements are replaced by ‘international business’ classes, and there are some other Wharton requirements they don’t have to take. So it’s a bit easier for them to do two degrees because some things are waived. They also all live on one floor freshmen year, which probably provides a pretty cool, international experience to some extent. But in terms of applying for an internship where you and a Huntsman kid have no connections, for example, if you have a better resume/gpa, you’re more likely to get the interview.</p>

<p>I just want to be clear that this (Huntsman info) is all secondhand, what I’ve heard from friends in the program (mostly) or read about (a little).</p>

<p>Let me know if you have any other questions…I’ll try my best to answer them.</p>

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<p>

Only for his MBA. His undergraduate degree is from Wharton.</p>

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<p>locklockboy, that is pretty funny ! </p>

<p>anyway, scribbler91</p>

<p>What a relief! The way you put it sounds a lot less intimidating than the website.</p>

<p>Also as far as the atmosphere at Wharton. Is it a bunch of hostile kids climbing over each other competing for the 3 A’s given out per test (exaggerating) and the few internships at some company, or do you find it pretty friendly and outgoing?</p>

<p>I’m a pretty laid back person and I don’t know if I would do well with so much competition in and out of the classroom. So, of course that makes me hesitate to go to Wharton knowing that if I did go to USC, I’d be (assumingly) the cream of the crop and virtually first up for every opportunity.</p>

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<p>btw, what is the reason you were not allowed to go back to Japan for a semester?</p>

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<p>Honestly, I find it pretty friendly and outgoing. I always have people willing to help me study or give me their notes if I missed something, and you tend to do your homework assignments with friends from your classes. It can get a little competitive, but never hostile. Honestly, if you study enough (at least I’ve found), it’s not that hard to do well. I would also say the same applies for internships (upperclassmen friends will help you interview prep, etc.). I’m sure there are some nasty people, but you’ll get that anywhere, and I don’t think I’ve really encountered anything that’s affected me.</p>

<p>I’m pretty laid back too (well, in some regards), and it seems fine to me. I mean, I’ve always been the person who did what I wanted, not what was supposed to help me (main extracurric in high school was head photographer of our weekly newspaper, for example, plus a spring sport…I never cared what made me ‘look good’ for admissions, for example, and same here…I do sports photography, a business frat because of the people-not the advantages, and dorm life stuff. I don’t care so much about ‘positions of power’ etc.) I would also say I’m probably not the typical Wharton student in general (people at the paper are generally surprised to find out I’m in Wharton, ha) but many of my friends are in Wharton. I really feel it’s just what you make of it.
I also wouldn’t assume you’d be virtually first for every opportunity at USC…it may not be Penn but I’m sure it’s still filled with lots of really intelligent people, who perhaps decided to go because they received money, or live closer, etc.</p>

<p>I probably wasn’t allowed to go back to Japan because of liability issues. While I would be perfectly fine being in Tokyo, I was also in Japan and have my own experiences to go off, not just the media, etc. I still think it’s stupid (especially that they canceled the Kyoto programs, since Kyoto is completely safe, whereas I guess Tokyo kind of has possible danger) but there’s nothing I can do about it. I’m not going next year because I’m going to be an RA, and if I don’t go senior year, I can always go after college.</p>

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<p>I should probably also add that I think success has a lot more to do with how hard you work than how smart you are. I guess you do occasionally get those people who don’t do any work and are super successful, but those are very rare (and those people probably still do a lot of work, they just manage to hide it well)…you’ll find most of the successful people actually put in a ton of time and effort.
I say this from personal experience as well…I didn’t try at all freshman year and it really showed in my grades, and then last semester I finally decided to put some effort in and pretty much had a perfect semester grade wise. It would be the same at USC or Penn.</p>

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<p>Ah that sounds a lot like the school I am in now, which is friendly but slightly competitive. It’s actually better for me because I work harder than what I would if I was on my own.</p>

<p>It also sounds like we have a lot in common. I read that there was a bunch of “type A” people at Wharton, and I’m clearly a type B, so that had me a little worried. Most people are actually shocked because I got into Penn, USC, and pretty much everywhere else I applied because I don’t come off as the high achiever—so knowing that I won’t be the only one is a relief.
Oh and I guess I came off the wrong way when I said I’d be first at everything at USC. By no means do I expect be first at anything. I just meant that because of the program I would be in, I, as well as the other 150 or so students, would have certain privileges and priority that most of the Marshall students wouldn’t. So, in that regard, I have the advantage of “first pick,” but not in a “bragging on myself” kind of way.
Your comment about success=work is actually a relief to me. I was under the impression that everyone at Penn was simply ridiculously smart, where, I, on the other hand, am not nearly the smartest (nor have I ever been), but have a pretty good work ethic.
Do you think that Penn will reopen the programs in Japan once everything calms down and the city gets up and running (however long that’ll take)?</p>

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<p>Yeah, I could have actually gone back to Japan in the fall if I had wanted/parents allowed me to. But then I got the offer to be RA for the Huntsman floor, so I couldn’t really pass that up or the money it’s saving my parents (RA’s get free housing and a $2000 meal plan).</p>

<p>Let me know if you have any questions and what you end up deciding to do…I’m sure you’re asking similar questions in the USC forum, so just make sure you make the decision that fits you best, not because of prestige or whatever.</p>

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<p>I definitely will ! thanks for all your advice. It really helped.</p>