<p>After talking to my friend who is a math major there, I think it's very likely. not only do they strongly encourage (or possibly make it mandatory) that math majors take analysis their first year, but he has amazing professors at the forefront of their fields, and they are all intimately close with their students. he said it's so hard that out of 60 kids, after the first year only 16 are still math majors. In his first year he published an original paper, took a course load harder than honors analysis at uchicago, and has an erdos number of 2. It's hard for me to imagine a program that is more demanding of its students</p>
<p>Princeton is ONE school where you can study math as an undergrad. It is an outstanding school, for sure, but there are many others where you could study math and also receive an equally outstanding education.</p>
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<p>If this is true, I don’t see how this is a positive, at all.</p>
<p>St. Olaf’s is great. A much higher rate of math Ph.ds come out of there.</p>
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<p>I’m working with an applicant who plans to major in math and Princeton is this person’s first choice college. I’m a bit curious about the statistic I quoted from your post. I’m not sure I understand it because freshmen have not yet declared a major, right? And so how can one claim that the class of 60 math majors is reduced to 16 after the first year, when there is no declaration of major prior to that juncture?</p>
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<p>Picking an excellent undergrad department is not the same as picking the best graduate program.</p>
<p>Harvey Mudd’s classes are so difficult, the oxygen is all sucked out of the air. The students have to wear oxygen masks when they go to class.</p>
<p>Just kidding. It is a good school, though.</p>
<p>More math Ph.Ds out of St. Olaf’s than out of Harvey Mudd.</p>
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<p>^^^The positive point there is that there are students who CRAVE highly challenging math classes and so that makes it a good fit.</p>
<p>Are you really so hung up on the formality of “declaring” a major? I am entering my first year and at least 80% of the students whom I know have “decided” their major. I’d imagine it’s much the same at Princeton - 60 people THOUGHT they would be math majors but didn’t like it or couldn’t handle it.
All I know is that I thought the math department at U of C was pretty legendary, but it looks like anyone who wants to major math at Princeton has to deal with a whole 'nother level of “hard”.</p>
<p>That’s an interesting fact about St. Olaf’s. but let’s get down to the nitty gritty: what does a math major from Olaf’s graduate knowing? Math majors at Princeton are (at least) highly encouraged to take analysis in their first year.</p>
<p>And so how can one claim that the class of 60 math majors is reduced to 16 after the first year, when there is no declaration of major prior to that juncture?</p>
<p>Isn’t it true that if you want to major in math/science, you have to start taking your pre-reqs freshman year? So you pretty much have to behave as if you have already declared your major by careful selection of courses.</p>
<p>That certainly was true for my older D who was a bio major. Her sister who also wants to major in biology, will have to add an extra year to do so, because she wasn’t able to fit in all the courses freshman & sophomore year that she needed.</p>
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<p>DoinSchool…I’m not “hung up” on the formality of declaring a major. But I don’t see how one could have a NUMBER of freshmen intending to major in math. Just wondering where you would obtain such a number of freshmen hoping to major in math? Besides that, the percentage of students who enter as freshmen in college and change their intended major (or even start out as undecided) is very large. I don’t think there is a way to ascertain how many freshmen entered Princeton planning to major in math (which ultimately so many change their minds about intended major in the first place) and also how you can attribute the fact that some who said they would major in math and then do not ultimately declare a major in math to be DUE to the fact that the math program was too hard at the school. These numbers would be more significant if X number of students actually ENROLLED in a math program and then dropped the major. Freshmen are not enrolled in any major in a liberal arts program such as this one.</p>
<p>That said, there are SOME students who are 100% of their college major before entering college who do indeed keep that major. My advisee is one such student who I feel certain will major in math. But many students who enter college change their intended major and that is simply fact.</p>
<p>As you do not attend Princeton, where did you get the number of how many INTENDED to major in math? Just curious.</p>
<p>-It’s common to change first year majors.
Yeah, this is true, of course. But can you imagine how determined an incoming math major at Princeton is compared to the average student population? I’d imagine some of them were crushed when they decided they needed to switch. fwiw at uchicago around 200 people take honors calc and 100 then major math (don’t quote me on these stats but that’s what the head of the math dept told us) per class
-How he got a number of freshman?
Listen, I am only relating my discussion with a friend. He spoke with great conviction about the actual #'s and I did my best to remember them accurately.</p>
<p>I’m really just curious about if any other schools are this rigorous .</p>
<p>Princeton no doubt has a very good math program but there are several schools that have great programs in the math area. Caltech, Harvard, MIT for example. </p>
<p>One prestigious mathematical competition for undergraduates is the William Lowell Putnam Mathematical Competition administered by The Mathematical Association of America and it was won by Caltech this year (2010).</p>
<p>[William</a> Lowell Putnam Competition](<a href=“http://math.scu.edu/putnam/]William”>http://math.scu.edu/putnam/)</p>
<p>Over the years, Harvard, MIT and Caltech have won this competition more times than Princeton. Given below is the number of times a team has finished in the top 5 places</p>
<p>Top Five Team (s)
55 Harvard
40 MIT
30 Caltech
28 Princeton
18 Toronto </p>
<p>Harvard has had 27 first place finishes, Caltech 10 and MIT 6</p>
<p>Princeton is good place to study math, but there are other institutions that are equally good and so a statement like</p>
<p>*It’s hard for me to imagine a program that is more demanding of its students
*</p>
<p>is not really true. Harvey Mudd and Caltech for example are know for very rigorous undergraduate core in math and physics.</p>
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<p>Oh please. Princeton has a wealth of wonderful courses of study. Some of these students may have discovered that there were other things that piqued their interest more than a math major. Everyone I know who switched majors (and MORE folk I know switched than stayed with their initial intended major…same for friends of DD and DS) were NOT crushed…in fact, quite the opposite, they were thrilled to have found something that they were REALLY interested in having as their major.</p>
<p>I agree with mazewanderer that while Princeton is truly an excellent undergrad math program, there are a number of others that are also top notch. </p>
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<p>So, if this is how you determine how many plan to major in math and then eventually do major in math, this analysis is flawed. There are MANY students who would take Honors Calc (or some equivalent at another school) as freshmen but not intend to major in math. That is a course that some might take who plan to major in various sciences or even engineering. Some may take that course as a distribution class to satisfy math/science requirements. The number of students in such a class doesn’t equate to intended math majors. </p>
<p>I also don’t know how you attribute the fact that less students actually declare math as their major as being due to that the freshmen math courses were too difficult. This may hold true for some, but I still don’t think your “statistic” is all that accurate.</p>
<p>I just said “for what it’s worth”, I wasn’t really making an argument there, just a comparison. this has been some good discussion. thanks for the stats about the putnam competition, that is great info.</p>
<p>Yes Princeton is good. I would probably say MIT, Harvard, and caltech are better. Rutgers is a top university for undergrad math majors so if you are interested in being in nj then check that out as well.</p>
<p>I question the accuracy of the statement that only 16 remained math majors at Princeton. While there is year to year variation, the data here: [College</a> Navigator - Princeton University](<a href=“College Navigator - Princeton University”>College Navigator - Princeton University) indicates that 31 students earned the bachelors in math in the most recent reporting year.</p>
<p>I’ve known a few HS students who were good at math and found out that math in college is a much different beast than what they experienced in HS. For a lot of kids, an option to change to something more applied like Engineering, or even Comp Sci for that matter, is a good backup plan, and well worth considering when they pick a school to study math at.</p>