Is research really THAT important?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
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<p>I know chance threads are a bit of a joke, but I would like someone to look over my credentials other than myself. Research is a big part of my application, and I was wondering how important that is as part of the application.</p>

<p>White Male (I know right?)</p>

<p>Computer Engineering / Physics (secondary, minor possibly)</p>

<p>My stats:</p>

<hr>

<p>GPA: UW: 3.98 W: 4.35 (All A's except a B+ in a summer course)</p>

<p>*Class Rank: 1/~380 (See Below)</p>

<p>ACT: 32 Composite / 34 Super-scored</p>

<p>SAT: Haven't taken since 7th grade.</p>

<p>SAT 2: Math 2: 780 Math 1: 740 Physics: 700</p>

<p>Senior Course Load:
Calculus 3<strong>, Differential Equations</strong>, Calculus Based Physics 2<strong>, World Civilization</strong>, Astronomy 1<strong>, Fiction Literature</strong>, Tennis* (doesn't really matter), British Literature, Social Civics, Bible 3 (required), and French 3.</p>

<p>*<em>Classes with an '</em>" next them are taken at a community college, not at high school.</p>

<p>Extra Circulars:</p>

<p>Research (3 award winning projects, including one ISEF project), Boy Scouts (Eagle Scout), Congressional Award Gold Medalist (National Award for various activities), Volunteering at a local science center, Started a book club for local students, Philmont scout ranch (crew leader), Governor's School (Physics), Soccer (non-varsity and varsity), other various sports of little importance, church participation (choir member, youth volunteer, etc.), Youth about business camp (minor importance).</p>

<p>Awards:
About a page full of minor science awards from projects, Junior Science and Humanities Symposium speaker<strong><em>, Junior Academy of Science speaker</em></strong>, Grand prize winner at science fair (Continued to ISEF where my apparatus broke, no awards from there), and Congressional Award (Bronze, Silver, and Gold). Nothing else major.</p>

<p>*** One of twenty-five chosen, and One of eleven chosen statewide to present research via powerpoint.</p>

<p>Essays:</p>

<p>I don't really know. I have a professional editor (my mother) working with me, but she can't edit if the content isn't there right? I received high praise for my writing from english teachers, but I don't think that really applies to essays.</p>

<p>Other:</p>

<p>Because of the lack of good schools to be found locally I am 'home-schooled,' but I think it is fairly clear that I am not being schooled at home at all. Over 90% of my grades were given by outside sources (not family members). I attend two community colleges to get all of the classes I want, and there will be no more advance science/math classes at the colleges I attend when I finish my senior year.</p>

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<ul>
<li>(About Class Rank) I will graduate with two diplomas, one through an accredited source (which requires many courses to be takes that I would otherwise skip out on), and an unaccredited source which ranks the class based on test scores, GPA, and the number of classes taken, so being ranked 1 may not be all that impressive.</li>
</ul>

<p>Because of my situation I will have 44 high school credit hours and ~60 college credit hours upon graduation.</p>

<p>If you read all of that it will be pretty obvious that research is a big part of my application, and I would like to know how MIT and other highly selective colleges view this. Also, any thoughts on my application would be appreciated.</p>

<p>Thanks for reading.</p>

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<p>Hey, sorry for not contributing much to the conversation, but I wanted to ask, what research have you done? ie., what field is it in, what did you do etc.? Sounds interesting. :)</p>

<p>Also, I’m not familiar with the US awards etc. much (international applicant) - Does your project have to fit certain ‘criteria’ for the competition, or could you just work on whatever you want, and submit it?</p>

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<p>I find your SAT 2 scores quite low for someone who is taking Calculus 3, Differential Equations and Calculus-based Physics at a local community college.</p>

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<p>Calculus and the math/physics on the SAT subject tests are two different animals completely. There are also documented shifts between subject tests in the region of 60 points. Most colleges look at anything >750 as equivalent.</p>

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<p>Regarding your original question: it’s my understanding from reading the admissions website that MIT will treat your research like any other extracurricular that an applicant has devoted a lot of time to. Additionally it helps back up the fact that you like math and science, which is important if you want to succeed at MIT.</p>

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<p>About research</p>

<p>My first project was in physics
My second and third projects were in electrical engineering</p>

<p>Here the science fairs are done by region and the regional winner(s) advance to the international fair. A lot of the people I met at ISEF said that their country would only send two or three people, so apparently it is much harder to get in if you are international.</p>

<p>About SAT 2s</p>

<p>I don’t feel bad about my scores. 780 is a good math 2 score.</p>

<p>I have only had half of the physics covered on the test because my community college canceled the class for this past fall, so I will be taking the second half in the spring instead. I had to take the SAT 2 without having covered electricity, magnetism, etc.</p>

<p>Math 1 I didn’t study for, I just took it because another school required a third SAT 2 (changed my mind about taking literature last second), I will probably send it anyways. That, and I haven’t had the material that Math 1 covers since freshman year.</p>

<p>And the guy a post or two above me is right, Calculus and the SAT subject tests basically have nothing in common. Even Math 2 only covers up to precalculus, so putting those together isn’t exactly relevant.</p>

<p>Back to the original question.</p>

<p>If research simply counts as another EC then it carries no more significance than USAMO or any other science/math oriented activity? I suppose it at least shows that I am interested in engineering and not just math.</p>

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<p>egreen - </p>

<p>We do like research. We don’t count it as an extracurricular per se in that we view it as a complementary activity, not a substitute. If you’re spending a lot of time on research we’ll understand that’s your time sink.</p>

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<p>Obviously one cannot successfully take Calculus 3 (I assume, multivariable/vector calculus ?) without a solid command of pre-calculus (elementary functions, trigonometry, etc.) and basic High School algebra. If you reached that level of math in community college, the SAT subject tests should be a breeze. </p>

<p>The same holds for physics (mechanics). Assuming you’ve taken calculus-based mechanics, you probably have a much better understanding of basic kinematics, Newtonian dynamics, conservation of moment and energy, ballistic motion, rotational motion, and other topics normally covered in SAT physics. Not having taken any E&M would be a major handicap though.</p>

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<p>@MITChris: I don’t quite understand what you meant in the quote above. Could you please clarify ?</p>

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<p>@bruno - </p>

<p>Sure. We like to see research, but we don’t like to see research to the exclusion of all else (unless you’ve singlehandedly invented a cure for cancer or something). We want to see you’ve done research, but we want to see you’ve done other things too. So while it’s fine to list your research as an extracurricular, you should feel free to use the ECAs space for them, and to devote section 14 or other parts to your research. </p>

<p>As for “time sink” I meant that we understand if you’re spending a ton of time on research that you’re not just hanging around twiddling your thumbs when you’re not in school. In that sense it’s like ECAs or work or other commitments outside the classroom - it gives us a sense of your academic circumstances. </p>

<p>Does that clear up what I meant?</p>

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<p>@MITChris: Yes, thanks. It’s clear now.</p>

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<p>Agreed, you can’t take those classes without a solid command, but a lot of the material covered in classes such as pre-calculus and high school algebra is not used in advanced classes. For example, I have yet to use matrices (outside of the cross product) in any of my advanced classes, but they count as a part of ‘basic’ math.</p>

<p>And yes, I have a good understanding of mechanics including kinematics, dynamics, etc., but not having had the second semester of physics does make it very difficult to take the subject test. In fact, I nearly canceled my scores because the physics test had so much magnetism and electricity on it.</p>

<p>MITChris, thank you for clarifying. That makes a lot more sense to me.</p>

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<p>@MIT Chris:</p>

<p>I have a question that I think of it very carefully but still can’t find the suitable answer. I think I need your help with it. Here’s the question:</p>

<p>"What does MIT consider as “publication”? I personally have proposed problems for many(yes, more than 10) national/international mathematics journals around the world and all of them are accepted for publication on journals. However, because math journals are periodically published, I have to wait until 2010 to see half of my problems is “officially published”. I got all the commitments of editors from those journals already but I don’t know if admissioners will think that I’m a fraud because I don’t give any links to those problems published in 2010 since they are not appeared yet. In my resume, I added the URL that links to the journals that officially published my problems already.In addition, some of my problems are also selected for national/international contests hosted in Russia and Europe too(like Dr. Kiran Kedlaya at MIT, who has problems selected for PUTNAM contest). I also wait for my first paper to be published as well(I submitted it like 3 weeks ago and pretty sure it will get accepted) and work on the second one. I wonder if admissioners will consider all of my problems published on journals and selected on contests as “publication”?Also, how can I show the admissioners the whole math research paper instead of just research abstract?</p>

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<p>I can try a shot at this one, ghjk. I don’t have a source for my information but I’m fairly certain I gleaned most of it from the admissions blogs.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>MIT isn’t concerned so much that your works are published, but that you have the drive and capability of churning out publishable work at such a young age. Telling them that you have problems and papers accepted to be put in journals will be just as good as telling them they’ve already been published. The admissions staff are familiar with the lag time for some journals and will not hold it against you.</p></li>
<li><p>You’re allowed to send any supplemental material you want, whether it be art, research, or papers. You can send in a paper or two and the admissions officers will be able to look it over. They may ask a member of the mathematics faculty to look it over and summarize it if your particular reader is not familiar enough with the subject.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>@MIT Chris:
I just have one more interesting question to ask you:
“Who do you think is more impressive based on the context of contests: problem writer or contestant?”</p>

<p>My role is shifting from second to first which comes through my change of perspectives towards math contests, and I’m eager to hear from your opinion towards this comparison.</p>

<p>@cgarcia: Thank you very much for that useful information. By the way, do you think having problems selected for national/international contests(similar to USAMO or IMO) is comparably significant as to having problems published on journals?</p>

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<p>Eh… I don’t think they use an objective system where they label certain activities or awards with points. Sounds like you have the whole math genius thing covered.</p>

<p>Now if you had a Fields Medal…</p>

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<p>@cgarcia: Lol. Thank you for your compliments, but they are too much of exaggeration! I’m not a “genius” to get a Fields Medal when I’m still in high school. If I did, then maybe I should apply for Professor Emeritus at MIT instead. So don’t life me up that much since I know who I am! </p>

<p>By the way I really want to know which one sounds more impressive if the admissioners look at both of them. It’s not about the matter of points but about the matter of taste.</p>

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<p>I was kidding about the Fields Medal.</p>

<p>I’m not sure what they would find more impressive. My suspicion is that they would consider them in regards to your abilities and desires. By that I mean that you should list all activities, awards, and errata that you think have contributed to your interests.</p>

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<p>@ghjk: I’m not familiar with Math journals, but, in the case of several engineering journals (IEEE transactions for example), accepted papers are available in electronic format (with a corresponding DOI number) long before their printed version is published. </p>

<p>In any case, once a paper is accepted, you normally get an acceptance letter (or e-mail message) from the Editor. You could simply attach a copy of the acceptance letter to your application.</p>

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<p>Oh, I don’t think it’s necessary to attach the acceptance letter from the editor – that wouldn’t even be required for graduate school admissions.</p>

<p>Just send the citation (and perhaps the abstract), with a note at the end that says “accepted” or “in press”, or whatever the status is when you send it in.</p>