<p>Jeez, pandem, you’re really riding him hard about that harassment thing.</p>
<p>I get stupid people reporting me for witty dialogue all the time. You learn to live with it, no?</p>
<p>I’ve got no problem with witty dialogue. But he is just being a hypocrite. He’s made tens of topics about the highest paid job with the least effort. And then when questioned on it, he claims to be concerned with supporting his family. I find that highly unlikely, and I’m sorry, but it irritates me when people lack the spine to just be honest.</p>
<p>pandem, with all that neurotic energy inside you to “fix” some anonymous on an internet forum, why don’t you go out and save the world?</p>
<p>At least I’m trying to make a difference with my life. And if I was only concerned with making money, I wouldn’t hide behind some silly lie to justify it.</p>
<p>You on the other hand, are quite the opposite. If all you want to do is make money, fine. I don’t agree with you in the slightest, but at least have a backbone and be honest about it.</p>
<p>ok (10 char)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Is it not known that computing professions require lots of overtime?
[Let</a> me google that for you](<a href=“http://lmgtfy.com/?q=programming+and+overtime]Let”>http://lmgtfy.com/?q=programming+and+overtime)
or
[How</a> often do you work extreme overtime? | Programming and Development | TechRepublic.com](<a href=“com.com - owned and operated since 1995”>com.com - owned and operated since 1995)
and if you still dont belive me, then look at the law.<br>
<a href=“http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/fairpay/fs17a_overview.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/fairpay/fs17a_overview.pdf</a></p>
<p>Just ask and I will provide. The assumption that programmer/IT personnel don’t work lots and lots of overtime is rather ridiculous. I made no anecdotes, my statements are yours to debunk. Feel free.</p>
<p>The Google search shows a bunch of blogs, which are just as reliable as the nonsense you’re spouting;</p>
<p>The TechRepublic forum is, again, not a viable source of information;</p>
<p>And the government document does not say that computing professionals <em>do</em> work so much more, it just says that they <em>can</em>. Can you not find a single study of the hours worked by computing professionals? Sad.</p>
<p>For the love of god, stuff nitpicking every stupid detail. The software industry is widely known for having longer hours. Spend some time on the internet and you would know this. </p>
<p>I’d certainly take the opinion of hundreds of so called programmers over one annoying skeptic. This isn’t philosophy class. He doesn’t have to prove without a doubt every claim he makes. Just make a google search and read some of the posts. </p>
<p>Do you honestly think that hundreds of people are pretending to be software engineers? Get over yourself and go watch Zeitgeist. I’m sure you’ll like it.</p>
<p>Also, here’s a site made for the sole purpose of highlighting long working hours in the video game industry, a very similiar field to software engineering.</p>
<p><a href=“http://gamewatch.org%5B/url%5D”>http://gamewatch.org</a>
<a href=“http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/274.html?[/url]”>EA: The Human Story - ea_spouse — LiveJournal;
<p>Let me guess, you don’t believe her either? Since she doesn’t have some mathematical study, surely she must be lying.</p>
<p>Oh, wait.
<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA_Spouse[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA_Spouse</a></p>
<p>Just for further reinforcement:</p>
<p>from wikipedia:
</p>
<p>The Soul of a New Machine by Kidder.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t you say that almost every technical/business job requires as much intellectual frustration and working hours?</p>
<p>Learn how to manage your stress so it won’t be a deciding factor in choice of careers.
If you live your life looking for the easy way out or low levels of stress then you limit your possibilities and opportunities.
Embrace stress, learn how to neutralize its effect on you and move forward.</p>
<p>Stress is a pretty relative thing and what one person considers stressful another person might consider fun. Example, I used to work as a line cook in a kitchen and that is considered a fairly stressful job. But I enjoyed the environment and people I worked with so it was not stressful for me most of the time. The same can said for many other jobs, especially technical jobs. Stress can be variable to your work environment as much or more so than the actual work itself.</p>
<p>Auburn, I am much more likely to trust blog posts and forum entries of computer professionals rather than a publication. </p>
<p>If you honestly think overtime is not the norm in the industry then you have never worked in the industry. Anytime a programmer is asked to do overtime it is the fault of the higher end software engineering managers. They failed on the basic software engineering principles.</p>
<p>“Auburn, I am much more likely to trust blog posts and forum entries of computer professionals rather than a publication.”
- I don’t know what to make of this. You acknowledge trusting unverifiable anecdotes posted anonymously online, more than peer-reviewed and impartial academic and technical evidence? I’ll leave it to the readers to decide which source is more trustworthy,</p>
<p>“If you honestly think overtime is not the norm in the industry then you have never worked in the industry.”
- Ad hominem.</p>
<p>“Anytime a programmer is asked to do overtime it is the fault of the higher end software engineering managers. They failed on the basic software engineering principles.”
- I’d ask for evidence, but you’ve admitted there is none (to my satisfaction), so, I’m ready to end this discussion if you are.</p>
<p>
Look at the history of eugenics and see how trustworthy your evidence is. Science doesn’t mean truth and a publication is no more truthful than anybodies opinion. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why not read Code Complete, The Pragmatic Programmer, or any of Joel Spolsky’s books on SE. You have little to no knowledge on software release cycles, quite frankly its scary. The reason you are the only one arguing against known knowledge is that everybody else knows it and you simply don’t.</p>
<p>Honestly, if you don’t know that software is a tough industry, you aren’t educated enough about it. </p>
<p>While I may take a study over one person’s opinion, the collective opinions of hundreds of people is certainly not something to ignore. Do you honestly believe that these people are faking it?</p>
<p>No, but the vast majority of online information that member’s using to support his argument is not verifiable. Can you prove that the people writing those blogs are not faking it?</p>
<p>I never said the software industry isn’t tough. However, Shatkins seems to think computer applications development is a low-stress industry. He distinguishes between challenge and stress, and takes into account working longer hours.</p>
<p>If you want to contradict a verifiable source, I’m going to need more than hearsay, opinion, and conjecture.</p>
<p>member:
It’s not stylish to be anti-academic.</p>
<p>
It is hundreds of thousands of different people. Its actually more probable for known publications to be lying then all of these people. I also have to ask what makes a publication more trustworthy than standard opinion, as most publication’s are just opinions of known people. I see no empirical evidence or anything in the aol article. </p>
<p>Most academics are academics because they couldn’t handle the industry, they sought the safety of academia. If professors were really as smart as everybody claimed, they would be making a lot more money in the private sector than the measly 150K the top professors make after a lifetime of work.</p>
<p>"It is hundreds of thousands of different people. Its actually more probable for known publications to be lying then all of these people. I also have to ask what makes a publication more trustworthy than standard opinion, as most publication’s are just opinions of known people. I see no empirical evidence or anything in the aol article. "</p>
<p>Your distrust of academia is not sufficient grounds for reasonable people to dismiss it.</p>
<p>"Most academics are academics because they couldn’t handle the industry, they sought the safety of academia. If professors were really as smart as everybody claimed, they would be making a lot more money in the private sector than the measly 150K the top professors make after a lifetime of work. "</p>
<p>I would say that people who go into industry are hiding from academia because they aren’t smart enough. See how easy it is to have baseless opinions?</p>