<p>This was in yesterday’s CW. I don’t generally copy and paste, but the article is not on the website, so I can’t link it. I had to scan this from the paper to my computer. I highlighted the arguments I took away the most from the column.</p>
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<p>So is this article implying that UA students are unhappy? That seems to go against everything I read here. </p>
<p>Might this also be some jealousy toward the honors college? Frankly, shouldn’t the honors students be getting more perks than the others?</p>
<p>Feeno … Thanks for posting. I’m new to the CW scene, but I understand that many campus newspapers tend to carry an us vs them undercurrent message. This is to be expected, but this theme of growth vs quality of life on campus doesn’t seem to hold water with me given what I’ve experienced myself on campus. Every campus has issues with parking, food service, crowded dorms, and the list goes on and on. UA has exceptional facilities and is building more. I’ve most certainly seen MUCH worse. It’s one thing to **** and moan, but I don’t read any suggestive ideas. Just a continuous litany of whining. My 2 cents …</p>
<p>I was thinking the same thing Chardo. And also the “elite honors” comment. I don’t find the set parameters to join the UHP or IHP elite at all. I find them generous, actually. And for good reason. CBHP and UF may be more elite, but all universities have some elite programs on their campus.
I am still trying to figure out the rub, and what is really causing the discontent.</p>
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<p>Puh-lease! Let’s re-write that little ditty so it has some verisimilitude (oops, was that an “elite” word I just used?). Here goes:</p>
<p>As more accomplished academic students enroll, they will expect the university to provide the opportunities for success promised at recruiting sessions. Resilient and self-motivated, these students rely upon internal resources, not hand-holding, to achieve their goals and are likely to view unforeseen challenges as problems to be solved rather than barriers that defeat them. They will achieve national academic awards as they always have: by doing what it takes to get the job done. They will leave the whining to the members of the Society of Perpetual Victims.</p>
<p>Oh yeah, Roll Tide y’all.</p>
<p>^^^ Somebody couldn’t find a parking spot. Or maybe couldn’t find a place to sit down to eat their sushi at 12 noon in the Ferg. Or maybe, didn’t get their first choice spot in the dorms. Or didn’t get their first choice class. Or … Or … Or … The can spend 2 seconds doing some crack journalism and find these EXACT same posts here on CC about 80% of all he Universities, period. This is NOT newsworthy … it’s whining!</p>
<p>lol, thanks, malanai. :)</p>
<p>ANY university that has an honors college (and that’s a whole lotta universities) will be open to this “elitist two-tier” charge. Gimme a break. A non-honors student who studies hard enough can certainly make it into the Honors College. It’s not out of reach for non-honors kids. </p>
<p>So, is the solution to do nothing for high-achieving kids? That seems like a recipe for mediocrity…or even for a nosedive into sub-mediocrity. </p>
<p>Why don’t we challenge kids to reach higher rather than telling them, “Party hearty! We’re just playing to the lowest common denominator here.”</p>
<p>Reminds me of the anti-meritocratic nonsense that’s crippling so many of our public schools right now. </p>
<p>With just a 53% acceptance rate, UA is already admitting very capable students. So, the kids whose initial stats don’t get them into honors can get in later via hard work and strong GPAs. The opportunity is there. :)</p>
<p>LD … Woot-Woot!!! Roll Tide!!!</p>
<p>Seems like the CW is trying to switch the argument. I believe the original article which prompted Dr. Bonner’s response was that the Univ was growing at the expense of it’s academics. </p>
<p>Dr. Bonner proved that to be incorrect and now the CW wants to argue in another direction.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t use the word “argument.” :-)</p>
<p>NJBama is correct that the CW has switched its argument.</p>
<p>It’s well known that UA, like any other college or university, is not perfect. That said, UA is very well-ran compared to other colleges/universities. Many of us are benefiting from its generous scholarships and academic policies. It’s not like students are taking 5+ years to graduate because they can’t get into basic courses or are having to live 6-10 per super suite because the dorms are overcrowded. Neither is the case at UA.</p>
<p>The thing with national elite scholarships is that they are very competitive and the vast majority of students would not stand a chance of winning. UA isn’t going to encourage 5,000 of it’s students to apply to these programs just like most high schools aren’t going to have all their seniors apply to Harvard. </p>
<p>It’s well known that UFE and CBHP students have a better shot at getting the major scholarships and fellowships as they are proven successes and are well-known by the faculty and staff who administrate the application processes. Does this mean that a non-UFE/CBHP or even non-UHP/IHP student can’t have a successful application to these programs? Of course not. It will just require a lot more work on the student’s part.</p>
<p>Especially at a larger school, students need to make themselves known and visible. Get to know influential faculty and staff members, including administrative assistants, and get on their email lists.</p>
<p>Bama is a rare school that makes it easy for any dedicated student to join honors. The 3.3 gpa to join as a current student is very generous. </p>
<p>And yes …the cw…lot of whining about nothing. Some of these kids need to visit other schools that stuff 3 or 4 kids into dorms meant for 2…that won’t allow frosh to bring cars cuz parking is sooooo scarce. </p>
<p>These types would complain that they only got 10 bday presents.</p>
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<p>With regards to your first question, UA student is not a one-opinion-fits-all monolithic entity. This piece reflects only the opinion of its writer, but I can tell you that it is indicative of the opinion of many students on campus. A majority? Maybe, maybe not, but a sizable number, nevertheless. With regards to your second statement, I think it’s fair to say that this board is hardly an accurate representation of the UA student body. Actually, it’s mostly parents here, and there is more to UA than what one would see during a university-managed tour, move-in, move-out and Parents’ Weekend.</p>
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<p>With all due respect, Malanai, I think you and others are missing the forest for the trees. The main point of the Mr. Vaughn’s column is that there is more to “progress” than a numbers game, and even the numbers that the administration will use as evidence to defend its policies do not effectively paint a complete picture of UA. In this argument, I side completely with Mr. Vaughn and against Dr. Bonner.</p>
<p>Now, if he’s anything like you, I’m sure your son is always going to take dealing with a little (or, in this case, more than a little) administrative incompetence completely in stride and not let it get in the way of achieving his goals. That’s how he got to where he is in the first place. But, that does not mean there is NOT a problem! Highlighting a problem is not the same as whining. Not rebutting a weak argument from administrators and their sycophants is not the same as whining. It is being a responsible member of society. As the article says, Mr. Vaughn will be presenting what he believes are solutions to the problems facing campus in his column next week. Bravo to Mr. Vaughn!</p>
<p>I highlighted a portion of your reply because I think it’s the most important part of this entire “hub-bub”. Are students effectively and actually receiving the resources they were promised while recruiting?</p>
<p>Feeno … I anxiously await Mr. Vaughn’s studied and respectful response then. As far as your message above, I think it better to refrain from inflammatory words such as “incompetence” and “sycophants.” You do realize that rhetoric like that does NOT forward useful dialogue, right? Those words come across and feel like personal attacks at those to whom they are directed and do nothing to highlight solutions to any systematic problems that may or may not exist. I do not doubt that there are issues that need resolving at UA. It is a large community, and in large communities there are always issues. You are correct that this particular board has many parents and Alums, but that does not invalidate our opinions either. Many of the parents here have students that are NOT freshmen or seniors (the supposed under-serviced middle), and certainly they are not echoing the issues that this segment of the student population seems to carry (at least some percentage of students anyway). Let me just say in all seriousness, compared to the school that I went to, and in the time that I went there (30 years ago now), UA in ALL respects is like a dream. And I have friends who have kids that are NOT having great early experiences. Our neighbor’s daughter was SO excited to get into Univ of Wisc … highly ranked, well regarded, right? … well she has only 1/2 the credit hours she needs. They actally told her to wait a couple weeks until there were some drops, and then pick up ANY Gen-Ed she could find to fill out her remaining 6 hours. Also, she is living with 5 other girls in the “lounge” on a dorm floor because there are no rooms. She might have a room by November. I actually feel embarrassed to talk to her recently because of the fantastic experience my D has been having, I feel horrible for them, and as a parent I’d be outraged if my student were having such an experience. I think a little bit of perspective is in order here.</p>
<p>Feeno, my issue with Vaughn’s peice is that there are no tangible examples that go along with the accusations:
<p>I do agree that the school should be listening to concerns, should be engaging all students. But students should have some real examples of how something is negatively affecting them, and ideas on how to resolve the problems. Are classes too big? How much have they grown? Are there options? Are sidewalks too narrow, not allowing students safe passage without walking on the streets? Is the bus/shuttle too infrequent, or not have seating, making it difficult to get to class on time if it is across campus? Do you have difficulty getting classes you need/want to complete your major? Do you have inadequate access to academic advisors for assistance with scheduling and college/career planning? Are you limited in EC activites available on campus, or are they filling up to quickly and no openings for new members? Is there a significant % of students that are not able to get summer internship positions or even on campus research opportunities because of the number of students that apply? </p>
<p>The rhetoric of “they are not paying attention to us and are throwing out misleading statistics” does not build support for a cause. It just sounds like whining. </p>
<p>Instead, pick an issue that is really affecting everyone, and address it. Lunch lines the big issue? Get some real statistics, times, numbers and publish those. Then offer ideas to improve the situation both short and long term. IE: food carts that offer on the run lunches during the busiest times that can be accessed from a variety of locations. Then maybe adding satelite lunch options around campus. Assuring that there are food options in each new building that is built/planned/ renovated moving foward. Even if it is just a snack bar. </p>
<p>My dad used to say “you may not have caused the problem, but you can choose to be part of the solution”. Whining is not a solution. It is not even an active argument.</p>
<p>yes, there are many parents on this board, but they are reporting what their kids are telling them…that they love UA.</p>
<p>I don’t doubt that there are some kids that have attitudes about various things at Bama. Remember that student who started at Bama 2 years ago, immediately wanted to transfer, soiled the nest, transferred out to a school that he was oh-so-excited about…and lo and behold…he hated his new school and was looking to transfer again…and was diagnosed with depression. Sometimes the issue is an internal one, not the school. </p>
<p>That’s going to happen at all schools…especially if the student had his heart set on going to School X, but is at UA (or some other school) because of one of many reasons. Some kids may have felt railroaded into attending their current school because that is what the family would pay for or whatever. </p>
<p>I know kids who had to attend School X because that is where their parent worked so they got free tuition and could commute (save on R&B). For some kids, that is fine, for others that may make them feel like they never got to choose a school. </p>
<p>Last night I was mentally making a list of all the college campuses that I’ve visited over the years…and I literally lost count there have been so many. The things that kids whine about are issues on virtually every campus…which is why their whines ring hollow. </p>
<p>I have a relative who is moving into her UCLA dorm today…it’s supposed to be a 2 student room, but they’ve stuck 3 kids in there (there are NOT 3 closets). Her class sizes are huge. The school has 40,000 students (27,000 undergrads) crowded on only 400 acres. Parking? lol yeah right.</p>
<p>Every university and LAC in this country has some sort of challenge to overcome to make their student’s experiences more fulfilling. </p>
<p>Dad2ILD is absolutely correct. UW-Madison has many problems, some of them old and some new. The overcrowding in dorms is a fairly new problem, the overcrowding in courses (not getting in to classes and a typical 5 yr graduation rate) has been an issue for a long time. </p>
<p>The University of Iowa is dealing with its second year of temporary housing for freshman. It’s great for the university, not so great for the students. However, they are building new dorms and all will be well in the next few years. Parking in Iowa City and Madison is a nightmare, and the dining halls can be crowded during peak times. UI has a great honors program and the honors students are in many non-honors classes. The honors designation only means that they get to live in certain dorms and have a few perks that non-honors students don’t have. Not a big deal. </p>
<p>Iowa and Wisconsin also deal with constant criticism from their university newspapers. It’s nothing new, it was like that when I was in college many, many years ago. It’s what they do. </p>
<p>From what I’ve learned while researching schools with my kids for the last three years I can tell you that UA seems to be doing a great job educating its students and keeping up with the increased enrollment. My son is so excited to know that in a year he’ll be a part of the UA family, and my husband and I feel confident that the tuition we will pay to UA will be worth every penny. </p>
<p>Roll Tide!</p>
<p>There are some people who truly “whack out” at the thought that a public has an honors college. They think that is somehow undemocratic. </p>
<p>The funny thing is that these same people don’t care if a state has 1 or 2 state schools that are very hard to get into (need high stats) and the state has some other (lesser) schools that are easier to get into. What’s the difference? How is one “undemocratic” and the other is fine? If their issue is access, then certainly those who can’t even get into top school do not have ANY access to that school’s best profs, etc (which that school will surely have.) At least at an honors college, most of the profs that teach honors classes also teach non-honors. </p>
<p>And, instead of graduating from a lower ranked school (because that is all that will accept them), a kid who goes to a school like Bama gets to have a diploma from a flagship name.</p>
<p>M2CK- I live in Maryland. UMCP, and UMBC have honors colleges. Delaware has honors colleges, as does Penn State. It is really the only way for state schools to offer students some of the opportunities that small private schools have and keep enrollment up and competitive. All of those honors colleges have different criteria for admission. Some are by invitation only, based on an unpublished set of criteria. I prefer the open “this is how you do it” attitude of UA, personally.</p>
<p>Lack of parking and lines for meals are minor nuisances (that exist everywhere, btw). Overfilled dorm rooms and 5 year graduations due to lack of classes are major problems. Do these exist at UA?</p>