<p>The issue isn't whether or not the core is beneficial, but whether someone who dislikes the whole idea of it would be happy at Columbia. I'm a huge fan of the core and my S is a math/science guy who chose Columbia specifically because it had the core. But, someone who resents it as strongly as this poster would not find Columbia a good match in my opinion. And, I get the impression that when core classes have this kind of student they are not nearly as good as when the class contains people who actively chose to be at
Columbia because of its curriculum, not in spite of it.</p>
<p>Personally, I love the idea of future investment bankers, medical researchers, engineers, lawyers -- whatever -- who appreciate literature, have thought about what it means to be a citizen, know something about the history of music and art.</p>
<p>You completely missed my point. You so badly misconstrued my words that I don't even know where to begin.</p>
<p>You already seem to have made up your mind about what is worthwhile to study and what you choose to occupy your time with. If you are so set on your ways, I cannot possibly understand why you even bothered asking if the Core is worth it in the first place, since you already seem to know otherwise.</p>
<p>I think Columbia and NYC are both places that are meant to broaden your horizons. Seeing as these places offer you the opportunity to experiment and experience many different things, it is only natural that a WILLINGNESS to take advantage of said options accompanies your being at Columbia. You seem to have such a deep seated aversion to exploring anything outside of your declared interests that it seems to border on resentment for any who would dare think otherwise.</p>
<p>If you know that math/science is the only thing that you want to pursue and happen to find all extraneous information useless, I fail to understand why you would be in an environment where trying new things is not only encouraged but an integral part of the experience. Everyone has their definition of what is worthwhile, and the Columbia experience certainly seems to fit my bill.</p>
<p>woaah viva...i think its about time you pulled the iliad out of your ass...jeez i was just joking...columbia kids really are stiffs...im better off at brown</p>
<p>Viva's post made complete sense to me, and seemed to be both diplomatic, polite, and to-the-point. southernazn decided to be rude and mocking of her post, as he has been throughout this thread.</p>
<p>Brown, too, looks for students with an open mind and intellectual curiosity. The fact that the diverse opportunities there are less structured and require more individual planning does not mean that it is intended as a math/science sweatshop either. One of the best features of Brown is the course-shopping period, where everyone tries a bunch of things and then whittles it down to what they've decided - after some trial-and-error - is the most interesting to them. That does not appear to be a process you are interested in.</p>
<p>You clearly have a strong preference for a traditional engineering curriculum, and would likely be happiest at an MIT/Caltech/Rose-Hulman/Carnegie-Mellon type institution. And with attitudes such as the above, you are unlikely to get into a traditional liberal-arts institution, because you can't really disguise that very well for very long. Frankly, I don't even know why you'd WANT to go to brown, with such attitudes. But then again, you seem to know everything.</p>
<p>In either case, I recommend everyone else in this thread stop feeding the troll. I will not be replying to any other questions from southernazn because they clearly are not posed in good faith, and I would encourage others against it as well.</p>
<p>ok this is seriously getting out of hand...all i wanted to know how long the core takes to complete, and whether or not it really was worthwhile in the long run for someone like me...i asked to simple, straightforward questions, and they've been answered (i think)...thanks voguepanda, columbia2007, skraylor, sac, mantiz24, and davidng1--your posts have been really helpful</p>
<p>viva--sorry if i hurt your feelings, i'm sure you don't have the iliad stuck up your ass (you might have something else, though)</p>
<p>denzera--i recommend you relax, take a chill pill, and smoke a joint. i didn't ask a really complicated question. you need to stop judging me and acting like you know me, because you don't. i happen to like brown's course-shopping period very much, as i am thus the pilot of my education. given my obvious biased nature towards the humanities, i wanted some additional perspectives on the core curriculum from math/sci people like me. once again, i strongly believe that you are in dire need of a good joint. since you're in new york, this shouldn't be a problem</p>
<p>to everyone else: keep posting...i know there's plenty more math/sci kids out there wanting to know if columbia (and other schools with strict requirements), is suitable for them</p>
<p>i hate to say it southernazn but by adopting an arrogant, condescending tone from the outset, it is mostly your fault that this thread has gotten out of hand. at the same time, i do agree that there are many "math/science kids" (btw i hate how people group themselves into "math/science" and "social studies/humanities", it defeats the purpose of education, at least what i view as the purpose of education: exploration, anyway) who are concerned about how much the Core is going to take out of their studies and their development into knowledgable doctors or what not, and thus are hesitant about Columbia. To them, I say that you should look into how the Core is going to enhance your education and your ability to see the world from any vantagepoint: scientifically, artistically, musically, or through the written word. you're probably 18 years old right now. when you graduate from college you'll be 22. you've got a whole lifetime of medicine ahead of you after that. i know you dont agree with a lot of this and i respect your ambitions. but just try and be more open to whats out there is my advice.</p>
<p>as one of those "math/science" people you talk about, i feel that columbia is a great fit for those who are good or are interrested in math/science or engineering but who want to be in an intellectual environment where they will be challanged and where they will be forced to push their boundries and expand their horizons. In HS i HATED english class, thought it was the stupidest thing ever etc but then i came to columbia and decided to take lit hum to fullfil the "major cultures" requirement in SEAS and i LOVED it...ontop of that i also took (well had to take to some extent) econ, univ. writing, contemp. islamic civs, and music hum.....each one of them has been great and an awesome change of pace from the math/science/engineering courses i have to take....and also they have taught me things and have made me interrested in things i never thought i'd learn or be interrested in! i was dreading taking music hum but my teacher was awesome, i got to go to the opera for the first time ever and listen to music i had never listened to before and i loved it. Econ for example also expanded my horizons and now i at least somewhat know something about econ which is very important for anyone living in this world where economics is closely related to almost everything (yes, even science). Now, back to wanting to be a doctor, the last thing med schools want to see is a computer/calculator....they are looking for human beings...if you go to a med school interview and are uncultured, socially inept or just plain uninterresting you will not make a good impression...they dont just care about how much science you've taken in college or that you took some grad level bio course....thats very nice, but half of what it takes to be a doctor is being human and being very well rounded. About half of the people who get into med school majored in something that is not a hard science and took the minimum number of premed courses..... no matter where you go you should try to take full advantage of the institution that you'r at....if you think humanities r ******** then dont major in it...but you should at least have a diverse background in it so you can truely be educated. </p>
<p>Also, i think all the responses given in this thread have been relevant to the quesiton...though your question might seem simple to you it isnt and the fact that such a heated/passionate discussion ensued just goes to show you how important the core is....and at least two other people who have responded in this thread are "math/science" people.</p>
<p>In high school, I didn't like any non-science/math class. I majored in engineering as an undergrad and feel that the liberal arts coures that I was required to take helped me out a lot. They improved my reading and writing skills. When you get out of school and start working, a purely mathematical/science person will not get very far unless you're a genius. The professional world is very political, even in the field of engineering, so it defintely helps to be well-rounded.</p>
<p>Personally I liked the writing/lit classes I took in HS, that's part of the reason i applied to Columbia. (Chem.Eng., SEAS)</p>
<p>I think the major difference between Shraf/davidng1 and the OP is that in the year or so I've been on these forums, I've never seen either of them post saying that they thought they would hate the core when they applied.</p>
<p>I feel that it is definitely possible for the OP to come to Columbia and learn to love the Core (FoS and Gateway exempted maybe) but at the same time I think it is very hard to overcome certain biases, especially when forced to take things as the Core does for you.</p>
<p>I guess one of the original questions has not been answered yet so here: the CC core is: Lit.Hum(2), Contem.Civ(2), Art/Music Hum, Foreign Language(4), U.Writing(1), Frontiers of Science(1), Major Cultures(2), P.E.(2), Science(2)</p>
<p>Assuming you test out of the language requirement and dont worry about the science req (due to pre-med) you could do lit.hum.,u.w./f.o.s.,p.e.,major cultures, and calc/bio for the pre-med in freshman year (5 real classes+PE)
sooooo bottom line, could easily finish it in 2 years and still finish pre-med stuff.</p>
<p>Note: this is only off what the website says of the core and my friends that are CC/pre-med</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think the major difference between Shraf/davidng1 and the OP is that in the year or so I've been on these forums, I've never seen either of them post saying that they thought they would hate the core when they applied.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>i was actually TERRIFIED at having to take lit hum and was even more terrified when i was told that i would have to take either that or CC as my "major culture" to fullfil my premed english requirement mostly because i am not much of a reader and reading a book every wk or two sounded scary/annoying/impossible but it wasnt and i loved the class. </p>
<p>
[quote]
you could do lit.hum.,u.w./f.o.s.,p.e.,major cultures, and calc/bio for the pre-med in freshman year (5 real classes+PE)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>bio is a soph level course, its prereq is general chem</p>
<p>freshman orgo and bio your first semester of college is a pretty bad idea....havent heard of anyone doing that....also your academic advisor will strongly advise against taking 6 classes your freshman year.</p>
<p>The freshman academic advisors are ignorant. Mine advised me to cut down classes and not take too many advanced ones; I wound up ignoring him and achieving one of my highest semester GPAs.</p>
<p>In hindsight I would advise eager, motivated freshmen to get as many classes/requirements out of the way before they start getting lazy and inefficient.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The freshman academic advisors are ignorant. Mine advised me to cut down classes and not take too many advanced ones; I wound up ignoring him and achieving one of my highest semester GPAs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>They're totally risk-averse and don't want to deal with students who are overwhelmed, can't handle the work, likely to burn out, etc. and even candidates for depression, dropping out, suicide, etc. They tell everyone to take easy classes and a small load.</p>
<p>Hold up..if columbia advisers are soo bad...then why does columbia have such a high med school acceptance rate, which always correlates with strong premed advising</p>
<p>Skraylor - wait, ANOTHER female chem-E? Do you know my friend Naomi Choodnovskiy? Seriously, the ChemE department has all the interesting SEAS girls in it...</p>
<p>
[quote]
why does columbia have such a high med school acceptance rate, which always correlates with strong premed advising
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Um, did you just make up that there is such a correlation? The more likely explanation for Columbia's med school acceptance rate is that Columbia students are at the top of the applicant pool.</p>